6 hours ago, LTuser said:

Based on the fact, all 4 of my Four hour events at Origins have sold out, i say that is a sure bet!!

I don't think big events would show the health of the game. Big events draw lots of people from all over, so I would assume there are still enough players to fill big event slots. I think there are other signs that might show the overall health. I don't think big tournaments are where you see it, either. I think it would be attendance at local game nights and attendance at local tournaments. This will probably vary quite a bit.

I have also been talking to other podcasters and they report that most numbers are down a bit. Not terribly down, but lower than before. That's all sorts of podcasts, not just casual, like me. I don't think there is another casual one out there.

14 player local tournament just a couple weeks ago and X wing night usually has between 6-10 people.

so no?

I was gonna mention something something Krayts something and how the lack of episodes obviously means x wing is dying but they just put out another episode last night so...

still no?

How does every game ever have this kind of nonsense started?

Hrm.

I wonder if there's two trends. From reading this thread, it seems like a lot of folks who started with larger scenes have seen a healthy growth. Folks who report local shrinkage seem to have started with fairly small communities already (but maybe that's my confirmation bias).

To paraphrase Lizzy Bennett: Everything nourishes what is strong already. But if it be only a slight, thin sort of inclination, I am convinced that one good second edition will starve it entirely away.

More and more people in my group just want to play alternate scenarios, fly non-meta stuff, etc. They have no interest in practicing or playing in tournaments anymore (and arguably our best players, top 8 players for the last few years Regionals). So now they don't want to come out on casual nights because they don't want to be rude and decline games from people that are flying competitive lists.

I agree, I'm on the fence personally. I don't really enjoy tournaments anymore. But I enjoy doing things like 5 A-wings with prockets, Jan Ors/Shera/Wedge hyper damage lists. Flying Echo.

Locally, we had a thriving 1.0 Scene with two weekly casual X-Wing nights (different stores) and anywhere from 3-6 "kit tournaments" a month within an hour. Average attendance for casual nights was about 8 and for kit tournaments was around 12-36. That scene has effectively died a slow death of attrition over the span of 2.0's announcement until now. At the onset of the announcement, a few stalwart pilars of the local scene "retired" from the game, including a couple Regional Champions who used to sleep, eat, and breathe X-Wing, and both of them have given up the game. Generally, people were excited for 2.0 but it's been sort of a slow loss of enthusiasm over the past 8 months. There are no longer any local X-Wing nights, and the last tournament event was about a month and a half ago, and even that only had 4 people. One of the stores just recently stopped carrying X-Wing and ran a 40% Clearance sale of all of its 1.0 and 2.0 product (and still ended up having to bulk sale most of it to another store at the end).

Glad to hear other scenes are doing well, though.

I really hope FFG realizes how important Epic is going to be for their bottom line. Sounds like they need to do a good job with it if they want to keep some of the smaller and more casual communities plugged in to the game.

My local city (stacks of horse **** where 40k people live?) isn't worth talking about.

BUT

in two local towns it's double. I love the new rule set btw. I was late getting on with the original 1.0 falcon and lambda release. The change has been done well.

With tournaments.....

Coming from 40k starting with Rogue Trader, playing just for fun, my close buddies and i had many enjoyable games and many hours wiled away playing. After starting tournaments and doing well (mostly based on points for painting and non-game stuff that are more hobby), I started paying closer attention to the rules and RAW. Because playing with strangers and prizes on the line.... This caused my buddies and I to eventually stop gaming 40k and because of the lack of close friendship with the tournament players, I ended up leaving 40k entirely and we are now trying to get restarted gaming with this game.

So overall, I think the tournament scene helps the game overall by selling products and offering tangible rewards. But when game designers focus too hard on that, they alienate specific types of players.

But on that... it is also up to us players as well to differentiate and keep who we are playin g with and the environment in mind.

On 6/7/2019 at 10:15 AM, gamblertuba said:

I really hope FFG realizes how important Epic is going to be for their bottom line. Sounds like they need to do a good job with it if they want to keep some of the smaller and more casual communities plugged in to the game.

It's funny, I didn't give a dry fart about 1st Ed epic unless I got to borrow a raider

But with the prequel factions I'm all for it.

Is it because those battles are more like videogames than actual narrative?

Is it because I can throw down EVEN MOAR ARCS!?!?

who's to say?

On 6/7/2019 at 12:15 PM, gamblertuba said:

I really hope FFG realizes how important Epic is going to be for their bottom line. Sounds like they need to do a good job with it if they want to keep some of the smaller and more casual communities plugged in to the game.

This.

I started with 1.0 as the GR-75 dropped, so I've never really known the game without Epic.

IMHO, Standard is a pretty cool space battle game with Star Wars themed miniatures. It's fun until you're tired of keeping up with the Joneses, or no longer care about making the cut. Then, it's just a repetitive slog to Git Gud with the latest junk.

Epic needs to be Star Wars. Stories. Missions. Narrative. A way to make one battle/play session impact the next.

It needs to be like HotAC, where GIT GUT actually meant GUAL.

Failing that, Epic needs to provide DIY players with a respectable tool kit to write their own stories. Lots of pilots, even with mediocre abilities, generics for all the canon squadrons, variants for ships like the x7 vs. /D, and more "unique" ships (such as titles for the YT1300 that aren't the Millennium Falcon).

Not everything needs to push the 99th percentile of effectiveness to make the game fun; good mission writing evens that out.

3 hours ago, Darth Meanie said:

IMHO, Standard is a pretty cool space battle game with Star Wars themed miniatures. It's fun until you're tired of keeping up with the Joneses, or no longer care about making the cut. Then, it's just a repetitive slog to Git Gud with the latest junk.

I don't think I fully agree with that. The competitive scene is a lot of keeping up with meta and finding exploits in it, sure. I think there's a much bigger emphasis on experimentation in this edition and that's giving a lot of options and variation for casual play that I don't think has been there for quite a while. Standard play and competitive play share a point format (and depending on how your local runs casual days, a basic structure), but I don't think they should be lumped together.

I play in Charlotte NC, and the game is going fine. We have three game stores where players go to mostly, the south side of Charlotte pulls in big crowds on their night, 8-10 players on average.

The north side is split between two stores, which I believes hurt both stores as they're on the same night. I choose whichever store has the most people going and go there, which has been PBKW for the past couple of weeks. In the entire north side of Charlotte, there's a consistent 12-14 players between both stores, which is about where we were before 2.0 released. We've lost some older players, but we've replaced them with new players for the most part. In conclusion, X-wing in Charlotte is fine.

8 hours ago, NakedDex said:

I don't think I fully agree with that. The competitive scene is a lot of keeping up with meta and finding exploits in it, sure. I think there's a much bigger emphasis on experimentation in this edition and that's giving a lot of options and variation for casual play that I don't think has been there for quite a while. Standard play and competitive play share a point format (and depending on how your local runs casual days, a basic structure), but I don't think they should be lumped together.

So, yes, I was being a bit hyperbolic.

Still, burnout does seem to be a major factor in people leaving the game. Which I find kind of "hilarious," given that this is supposed to be a hobby.

And to get back to @gamblertuba 's point, this is why Epic is critical IMHO. Once a player is needing a break from Competition, what is there officially? Really nothing, save the exact same game format played without the expectation of making the cut or winning prizes. It's not really a change of pace, it's just a lowering of expectations. I can see why that would not be much of a refreshing break. And if taking a break thus means packing up your kit and skipping a few 200 point games, it becomes pretty easy to wander away, maybe forever.

Thus, I think that Standard play and Competitive sharing a point format is a significant issue for long term player interest.

14 hours ago, ficklegreendice said:

Is it because I can throw down EVEN MOAR ARCS!?!?

who's to say?

It's the ARCs.

2 hours ago, Darth Meanie said:

Still, burnout does seem to be a major factor in people leaving the game. Which I find kind of "hilarious," given that this is supposed to be a hobby.

I always say my hobby is playing games. I've been on Xwing for about 6 or 7 years. There are a lot of other games that look interesting to try.

I agree on Epic being a big deal. HotAC saved the day before. We make up crazy stuff, but having some structure would be nice.

1 hour ago, heychadwick said:

We make up crazy stuff, but having some structure would be nice.

Agreed. DIY is great, and should always be part of the fun.

BUT, it's always better to have an official starting point. Especially if you are going to be trying out your material in a FLGS or Con where maybe there are more strangers at the table.

The more official material there is, the easier it is to DIY and make sure you are not going off the deep end, AND that players who come to your table will recognize the material you present because they have seen it before.

Ergo, the story is yours, but the game pieces are official.

Everyone at Shuttle Tydirium have been amazing torchbearers for the Casual Non-Standard Game. I'd love it if FFG had an XWM Think Tank that operated in the same mind-set.

20 hours ago, ficklegreendice said:

It's funny, I didn't give a dry fart about 1st Ed epic unless I got to borrow a raider

But with the prequel factions I'm all for it.

Is it because those battles are more like videogames than actual narrative?

Is it because I can throw down EVEN MOAR ARCS!?!?

who's to say?

I'm going to venture a guess that it's the latter. Just a hunch, though.

FYI, following up on my earlier post, we had 14 players turn out for a store-kit tournament, about half of whom I had never seen before.

It was an awesome turnout, and really makes me hopeful. (As in, "I hope they don't watch that Riverside final ... ")

1 hour ago, Jeff Wilder said:

As  in, "I hope they  don't watch  that Riverside  final  ..  .  "  

If you're in god terms with the TO at the shop and they're in agreement maybe you can use that match as an example of something not permitted at tournaments at that LGS.

8 minutes ago, Hiemfire said:

If you're in god terms with the TO at the shop and they're in agreement maybe you can use that match as an example of something not permitted at tournaments at that LGS.

Already in the works, yep. I should add, though, that I have never seen anything like that at any of our local tournaments, all the way up through the KublaCon System Open last year.

Just lucky, I guess.

On 6/5/2019 at 3:27 PM, ClassicalMoser said:

Question for those of you that have been playing for longer: How many people do you know who quit because of 2.0, but then came around later and got back in and are now happy that the game got revised? I know a couple like this but not a representative sampling.

Everyone I know who played 1.0 either quit or didnt convert when 2.0 launched. Im the only one in my scene who has any 2.0 products, and all i have is a scum conversion kit and the 2 rogue 1 boxes. I now play 40k with a group of 20 people who almost to a man are former X-wing players. The sparse attendance of x-wing at my FLGS compared to other games is noticable too, with dnd league getting 40 people but x-wing getting half a dozen, and thats in the biggest game store in a city of 350,000. So yeah if there are bigger crowds im not seeing it. The game leaned hard away from casual and into tournament play, so it may be that tourney players are seeing big crowds that dont exist locally

1 hour ago, Vontoothskie said:

Everyone I know who played 1.0 either quit or didnt convert when 2.0 launched. Im the only one in my scene who has any 2.0 products, and all i have is a scum conversion kit and the 2 rogue 1 boxes. I now play 40k with a group of 20 people who almost to a man are former X-wing players. The sparse attendance of x-wing at my FLGS compared to other games is noticable too, with dnd league getting 40 people but x-wing getting half a dozen, and thats in the biggest game store in a city of 350,000. So yeah if there are bigger crowds im not seeing it. The game leaned hard away from casual and into tournament play, so it may be that tourney players are seeing big crowds that dont exist locally

It is not a problem of competitiveness. X-Wing 1.0 exploded rapidly mainly thanks to countless tournaments and streams. The problem is totally different. FFG introduced formats - Hyperspace and Open. Problem is Hyperspace got a few ships, it is rotating like some CCG standard format (which is terrible idea) and it got terrible meta (Leia bunkers anyone? 5-AWings?). Thus community become fragmented. Also a lot of people in my community stopped playing because they don't like balance changes (Scums get nerfed horribly).

In my opinion this game worked best with 2-3 ships, unfortunately new edition works best with 4 ships or more. Games are longer, there are less interesting aspects of list building (because there are less combos and less upgrades on ships). A lot of the time you are just seeing generic ships with minimal number of upgrades. It took its tool when it comes to popularity of this game.

I still try to play but I would be lying if I said that is the same passion I had for this game in 1.0.

A game fly high if, when, and where there is a good team gameplay between retailers, community animators/moderators, and business company. A game is still in fine condition when you have two (whichever combination you pick). A game would go poorly on only one pillar of above list. If no one pillar is present a game is dead on the shells. That is the universal truth, for any game. Xwing now live different status in different places. Imho has the potential to be full power. It is still a great game, but needs the right people on the bridge and in the front line.

NASA talks about the "Seven minutes of terror" where there's total silence as a lander starts it's entry and descent to landing on a planet. All communications are off and and they don't know if the landing was successful.

https://www.jpl.nasa.gov/infographics/infographic.view.php?id=10776

I feel like the next two waves are that 7 minutes of terror where we are starting to enter a game state that we don't know if it's going to land well or not.

Eh, I don't see anything but a marked improvement to gameplay after the banishing of combo-wing (tm) and bull turrets

While there's less upgrade spam, this is actually a good thing . It means your ability to play the dang game matters more than your ability to slap TLT on something

Plenty of "naked" ships are in fact far more dynamic than they were in 1st Ed thanks to ship abilities and linked actions, so there's still A LOT of decision-making involved in the actual gameplay.

Plus there still TONS of room for jank, just ask Emon!

I find it difficult to concoct any sort of argument in defense of 1st Ed outside of enjoying specific broken builds or, the only viable argument imo, missing being able to field OT and sequel ships together. Even the later, though, only serves to enhance the long-term health of the game by allowing more sequel-era ships without stepping on OT toes, both balance and lore-wise

The only feasible reason I can determine for losing interest in the game is simply burn-out. ****'s been around since 2012 . I was still in college!

I myself took an extended break, both from burnout and due to real life being a prick, but I came back for the republic. The new mechanics being introduced through the prequel (and, soon, sequel) factions gives me hope for the game going foward