Probably bad enough to make this stink, but this still seems fun to try out sometime.

NOW WITH MASSIVE JULY BUFFS!

• Anakin Skywalker (Calibrated Laser Targeting, R2 Astromech) 74 73
  • Maybe add Brilliant Evasion. At 6 points, it stank. At 3 points on a 3-agility ship, might be worthwhile. Only adds about as many Evades as Heroic (0.1 evades per attack) despite being three times the price, but every bit can help.
• Obi-Wan Kenobi (Sense, Calibrated Laser Targeting, R2 Astromech) 65 62
• Mace Windu (Heightened Perception, Calibrated Laser Targeting, R2 Astromech) 56 57
  • Probably should cut R2 to get Sense on Mace...
  • Or Sense (slightly buffed to 5 points!) on Obi-Wan, and Heightened Perception on Mace...
  • Or keep all of that - - Since CLT Jedi got a massive buff!
• Total 195, Bid 5 Total 192, Bid 8

CLT is godawful

nevermind the already exceptionally restricted bullseye restriction, there's also the fact that it adds a focus result (so you need to spend MOAR FORCE or take a focus action instead of the TL that you can stack with forcus)

the absolute most I'd ever imagine is one on anakin only, maybe. Otherwise, there's just no reason to ever consider it over Delta config and every other Aethersprite REALLY oughta have it

I find it's OK on Obi-Wan because he can regen Focus with his ability. I probably wouldn't use it with anyone else.

I originally supported it heavily over the Delta 7B for the higher I pilots when it first came out. My reasoning was that it should be easy to line up bullseye with high initiative and double repositioning. I don't think I'm wrong about that.

However, I've found that even though it's not terribly difficult to line up bullseyes, it can cost way more Force than it's worth. Using one to reposition, and potentially another to change the added focus is a lot to ask.

At what point cost do you think it would be worth taking? 2?

I used it a few times, Obi-Wan can make good use of it. It's pretty difficult to land bullseye arc often enough to make it worth the points over the 7B config.

If it came down by two or three point across the board it might be worth looking at again, just for squad building purposes.

On 6/3/2019 at 12:23 PM, NielsD said:

At what point cost do you think it would be worth taking? 2?

Perhaps a better question is what would it need to cost to be as good as 7B is now.

0/1/2/3?

I think 5x CLT JKs are strictly worse than 5x Crack/AO/Heroic RZ2s, this at least makes them 5pts cheaper

Obi/Mace/Lum/Sae all with CLT/R4 would be 200, maybe that'd be good?

Prob still worse than the best performing trip delta list (Mace+Sense/Lum/Sae all R2/7B)

TBH maybe it needs to be free.

BE isn't even the real problem, I mean its a challenge but it give the ships flavor and there is a sufficient payoff.

CLT killed by the low critical output combined with inherently high critical susceptibility of the delta chassis. 7B just solves those problems.

Here's a thought experiment: what if they switched Calibrated Laser Targeting and Advanced Targeting Computer? I don't think it should happen in the actual game, but I find it interesting to think about. I kinda think both the Aethersprite and x1 would be winners in terms of ability-synergy-with-ship.

ATC for an Aethersprite makes it harder for a Jedi to double reposition, and without Fire Control System, it'll be harder to hold locks for the next round. However, with Force charge and Fine-Tuned Controls, it's probably a lot easier for a Jedi to grab a lock than another ship.

CLT for an x1 plays into their strength: they really want to Focus and maybe also Focus/Roll (thus, bullseye), and it is often hard for them to acquire the locks they need. Meanwhile, Predator (which Jedi can't take) would work well with CLT, fixing blanks, or maybe even rerolling the Focus result. Maarek and Zertik have abilities highly designed to synergize with ATC, but CLT Vader? He'd probably still be fine.

Price adjustments would certainly be in order, however, but not too large. The defensive statline of the 7B is a bit better, and not having to worry about locks would warrant a few points. Perhaps 2 points closer would be enough. And a CLT TIE/x1 probably would only need to go down like at most 4 points. At the low end, 34 points for a Tempest x1 would represent a strong defensive statline for the cost, as opposed to squishy Strikers and Interceptors. About as tough as a B-Wing (theoretically... green dice...), with a conditional 3rd attack die. Predator on a Storm Squad for 38 is also a sweet little package.

6 hours ago, prauxim said:

Perhaps a better question is what would it need to cost to be as good as 7B is now.

0/1/2/3?

I think 5x CLT JKs are strictly worse than 5x Crack/AO/Heroic RZ2s, this at least makes them 5pts cheaper

Obi/Mace/Lum/Sae all with CLT/R4 would be 200, maybe that'd be good?

Prob still worse than the best performing trip delta list (Mace+Sense/Lum/Sae all R2/7B)

TBH maybe it needs to be free.

Yup - I agree, and even then it’s not obviously good; definitely better than naked, but prob not better than a list of more expensive 7Bs as you say. Sounds like some people make it work - it might have a place in some builds just to make a certain list concept fit the points? But zero points would also take some flavour away - it seems nice to have three configurations to play with, so that’s why I wondered 2? I hope they do adjust the cost, it’s good to have more options.

On 6/3/2019 at 6:03 PM, kempokid said:

I originally supported it heavily over the Delta 7B for the higher I pilots when it first came out. My reasoning was that it should be easy to line up bullseye with high initiative and double repositioning. I don't think I'm wrong about that.

However, I've found that even though it's not terribly difficult to line up bullseyes, it can cost way more Force than it's worth. Using one to reposition, and potentially another to change the added focus is a lot to ask.

Id agree with this statement, however, i think if we ever see a light side force regen ability so that you can spend /recover more than 1 force token per turn this will be a different story.

2 hours ago, Tott said:

Id agree with this statement, however, i think if we ever see a light side force regen ability so that you can spend /recover more than 1 force token per turn this will be a different story.

Well, sure. Any card/ability has the potential to be good based on future combinations. But we haven’t seen it in the next two upcoming waves just yet though.

Also Mace can regen two Forces in a turn, but CLT is still a bad choice for him given his initiative.

So if it’s going to take CLT, some other yet-to-be-released card/ability, and higher initiative, you might as well just take the Delta 7B.

5 hours ago, Tott said:

Id agree with this statement, however, i think if we ever see a light side force regen ability so that you can spend /recover more than 1 force token per turn this will be a different story.

I kind of wonder if the right way to CLT is with Darth Sidious. He could coordinate a Lock, provide the Focus, and the Jedi doesn't even need to use Fine Tuned Controls to reposition.

1 hour ago, theBitterFig said:

I kind of wonder if the right way to CLT is with Darth Sidious. He could coordinate a Lock, provide the Focus, and the Jedi doesn't even need to use Fine Tuned Controls to reposition.

Hmmm... X Wing open play tonight. I may have to give this a whirl.

15 minutes ago, Darth Wrath said:

Hmmm... X Wing open play tonight. I may have to give this a whirl.

Played with lists. I'm going to try this:

"Wolffe" (51)
Chancellor Palpatine (14)
R2 Astromech (4)

Ship total: 69 Half Points: 35 Threshold: 5

Anakin Skywalker (60)
R5 Astromech (4)
Calibrated Laser Targeting (10)

Ship total: 74 Half Points: 37 Threshold: 2

Mace Windu (46)
R4 Astromech (2)
Calibrated Laser Targeting (6)

Ship total: 54 Half Points: 27 Threshold: 2


Total: 197

View in Yet Another Squad Builder 2.0: https://raithos.github.io/?f=Galactic Republic&d=v6!s=200!342:,,217,,2,:;273:,6,200,:;314:,5,200,:&sn=Unlimited Power!&obs=

37 minutes ago, Darth Wrath said:

Played with lists. I'm going to try this:

"Wolffe" (51)
Chancellor Palpatine (14)
R2 Astromech (4)

Ship total: 69 Half Points: 35 Threshold: 5

Anakin Skywalker (60)
R5 Astromech (4)
Calibrated Laser Targeting (10)

Ship total: 74 Half Points: 37 Threshold: 2

Mace Windu (46)
R4 Astromech (2)
Calibrated Laser Targeting (6)

Ship total: 54 Half Points: 27 Threshold: 2


Total: 197

View in Yet Another Squad Builder 2.0: https://raithos.github.io/?f=Galactic Republic&d=v6!s=200!342:,,217,,2,:;273:,6,200,:;314:,5,200,:&sn=Unlimited Power!&obs=

My first thought was Obi-Wan/Ani/Wolffe, and it'd fit with R4s on both Jedi. Being able to repeat the Sidious focus for offense and defense seems nice, and Mace's red moves don't necessarily pair well with Sidious stress. However, Mace has clearly been more successful overall performance, so it seems fine.

@theBitterFig what's your hot take on the new pts?

Is Mace/Lum/Saw/Obi CLT/R4 our best hope for a decent CLT list?

Guys, all of you are complaining about CLT being bad unless you have a TL. Just take R3. I have flown Ahsoka with CLT and R3 for months and it really works well.

Fly her with 3 Arc-170s and use her as a flanker. Everyone goes for the Arcs and ignores her cos they don't want 3 Arcs hitting them in the side

1 hour ago, 5particus said:

Guys, all of you are complaining about CLT being bad unless you have a TL. Just take R3. I have flown Ahsoka with CLT and R3 for months and it really works well.

Fly her with 3 Arc-170s and use her as a flanker. Everyone goes for the Arcs and ignores her cos they don't want 3 Arcs hitting them in the side

I actually kinda don't think it's too bad. Or at least, not as bad as folks say. Now that it got massively buffed? I'm feeling a lot better about it. Anakin with R2 and 7B is 88 points. Anakin with CLT and R2 is 73. That's a 15 point savings between CLT and 7B, and probably worthwhile. I wouldn't be shocked to see Anakin switch over to CLT in other lists now.

I only got in one game against a non-degenerate variant on Rebel Beef, but it felt fine. If you can roll green dice well, it's a really solid list.

//

@prauxim

My hot take is that this is a massive buff, and probably goes a long way. Even with the 2 point nerf to R2 Astromech, the total of my list in the original post is 11 points cheaper. That's Sense on Obi, Heightened Perception on Mace, *AND* a bigger bid than before at 8 points. I'm ready to rock and roll. Maybe I even throw the newly-buffed Brilliant Evasion onto Anakin. Brilliant Evasion at 6 points certainly wasn't worth taking, but at 3 on an Aethersprite seems like... this might not be too bad. Rolling 3 green dice, being able to gain a 2nd focus result from a force charge can really matter. Maybe not as much in a post-Juke-nerf world, but still.

//

I mean, this doesn't look too bad in general, does it? Kind of as close to the old list as you can make work these days, but with H-Per on Mace, so that it'll be a lot harder for him to get Init-killed. I probably only use it on the 2nd round of combat, but it seems like a nice, affordable trick. Anakin with CLT, over a very small sample size, seems like he doesn't get that much worse, and it might be a really good option on him, given the nerfs to 7B Jedi in general.

• Anakin Skywalker (Brilliant Evasion, R2 Astromech, CLT) 76
• Mace Windu (Heightened Perception, R2 Astromech, 7B) 72
• Gold Squadron Trooper (-) 25
• Gold Squadron Trooper (-) 25
• Total 198, bid 2.

Another observation:
Plo Koon is the same cost as Mace Windu now. So the list could run 2x Init 5s, which will make maneuvering easier, and Plo might be really nice with R2 Astromechs around. Plo can give up his attack to allow Obi or Ani to make an attack on the same turn they regen with an R2 Astromech. Or better still: he steals their Disarm tokens on a turn when he's also using R2 himself.

Plo, Obi, Ani (all with Brilliant Evasion, CLT, and R2) at 197 for a 7 point bid... doesn't seem that bad.

I will give this a shot

Anakin Skywalker (62)
Supernatural Reflexes (32)
R2-A6 (6)
Calibrated Laser Targeting (5)

Obi-Wan Kenobi (47)
Supernatural Reflexes (24)
R2 Astromech (6)
Calibrated Laser Targeting (4)
Total: 186

View in Yet Another Squad Builder 2.0

Anakin has supernatural + R2-A6. So he can boost or barrel roll and then change his maneuver.

I was pondering something similar to that, @Ryuneke, but I decided I wanted to throw an N-1 into the mix:

Padmé Amidala (45)
Juke (7)
Fire-Control System (2)
Plasma Torpedoes (9)

Anakin Skywalker (62)
Brilliant Evasion (3)
R2-A6 (6)
Calibrated Laser Targeting (5)

Obi-Wan Kenobi (47)
Brilliant Evasion (3)
R4 Astromech (2)
Calibrated Laser Targeting (4)
Total: 195

View in Yet Another Squad Builder 2.0

The same list could work with Ric, making the bid larger, but I reasoned that Padme's ability will shine better.

10 hours ago, prauxim said:

@theBitterFig what's your hot take on the new pts?

Is Mace/Lum/Saw/Obi CLT/R4 our best hope for a decent CLT list?

5 Jedi with CLT could work.

5 quite mobile Potential blockers for Aces, 5 Aces when playing vs low Ini ships.

I've been playing with CLT from the beginning, and I've been very happy about it
Keeping 3 Agility is definitely good on defense, even if it costs more force tokens.

I'm now super happy I can run a list like the one below

Anakin Skywalker (62)
R2 Astromech (6)
Calibrated Laser Targeting (5)

Obi-Wan Kenobi (47)
R4-P17 (5)
Calibrated Laser Targeting (4)

Plo Koon (44)
R2 Astromech (6)
Calibrated Laser Targeting (4)
Total: 183

View in Yet Another Squad Builder 2.0

48 minutes ago, WanouMars said:

I've been playing with CLT from the beginning, and I've been very happy about it
Keeping 3 Agility is definitely good on defense, even if it costs more force tokens.

I'm now super happy I can run a list like the one below

Anakin Skywalker (62)
R2 Astromech (6)
Calibrated Laser Targeting (5)

Obi-Wan Kenobi (47)
R4-P17 (5)
Calibrated Laser Targeting (4)

Plo Koon (44)
R2 Astromech (6)
Calibrated Laser Targeting (4)
Total: 183

View in Yet Another Squad Builder 2.0

One thing which strikes me: this is a list which went from being literally unplayable at 201 points, to having a massive 17 point bid.