16 hours ago, FriendofYoda said:

So what are everyone's top 3 hopes for the changes?

For me:

1) Dash comes down 4 points so my Dash, Miranda, Sabine list is actually legal. It may not be especially good, but man is it fun to fly.

Mind sharing the list?

But yeah, making the YT-2400 cheaper (and the Outrider title) needs to happen. Playing Dash with his signature vehicle shouldn't cost the same as 2-3 ships that have better combined stats than him.

And with only 10 effective health and one crew, there's far less room for the shenanigans that are making people curse Han.

WARNING: Ramblings of a single faction player to follow.

Is it just me or does it feel like the game is catering more to the newer players at the expense of the older ones. FFG wants me to buy into a new faction. I feel it.

Chances are I am in the minority but the game does feel like its lagging. Im not very interested in reprinted ships i already own unless i get some new content to shake things up.

I might as well take an extended break from the game and come back when things are a bit more interesting. I love the list building element of the game. Its why Im here. Im always seeking out new ideas for squads, interesting interactions and ways to beat the top meta squads getting played in my area.

Im missing seeing Palob and 4-LOM and Kavil which are all still playable, just overly expensive (Kavil isnt bad actually). Some reading this will say just play what you want to play... practice hard with it and beat those other top squads (quad phantoms, 4 ship jedi or drea/scurrgs anyone?)... fair point... only there is not much there I want to play that I havent played over and over already.

.... Boba/Guri/Fenn/Old Teroch/escape craft/Seevor/Scum Han or even drea scurrgs ... its a small pool of ships/pilots

staying loyal to one faction had its price i guess... I'm feeling it... its called boredom... starting to lose interesting what scum has on offer.

my solution? eek out what you can out of less popular, but still efficient ships/pilots like Shadowcaster/Asajj, Hired Gun with Squad leader... stuff thats a little off the radar but no costed out of the competitive game.

15 hours ago, ClassicalMoser said:

I don’t mean to diminish your point as I know these factions are struggling, but at least you have new content to look forward to.

I’m almost exclusively Imp/Rebel, and we’ve gotten nothing new since Wave 1. Not only that, there aren’t even any announcements in the pipeline. Unlike the Sequel factions, there are no major sources of new canon ships for the OT period.

FO is looking forward to 3 more Interceptors and a Bomber. Resistance will be getting the Transport and Pod, probably the Fireball and other cartoon content, and Episode 9 stuff when that’s through.

OT factions just pray that some kind of card packs will come out before Worlds...

I get that, and it'll matter more as time goes on. Their main prospects for novelty are either new cards, or inducting new ships/variations from non-canon sources (which IMO could happen). However, I'm still going through the rebellion and empire and finding new fun stuff, and there's still ships I haven't flown yet, or flown enough. They are giant factions. FO and Resistance had better be getting new content because they have a handful of ships each, and aren't seeing much play at all due to balance problems. It does not feel great to not get new content for the factions you love, and for so long. However, I still rejoice that they're such large and versatile factions, and so much fun to play!

In contrast, I've struggled to get into the Tiny Two, because those factions have so little to choose from and they're not well-costed. While Rebs & Emp feel mildly stagnant but healthy, FO and Res feel forgotten. It's hard to find something that both survives on the table, and isn't already a "solved" fleet (whenever I see these factions played, it's usually the same few fleets). For example, I love my double starfortress list. It's quirky and unique and ferocious when in the right environment... but it's not going anywhere but casual nights, and even then it just... dies. Tiny Two's large ships require giant point investments for what you get, and there's only so much variety in the two small ships (or all 4 ships total, really). FO feels more versatile with its four IMO, but still suffers in price.

But Rebel & Empire? They may not be getting much new content, but they're still fantastic. I say this not to rebuke you, but to inspire you with hope! And these factions will continue to get cards to shake things up, and points adjustments to themselves and other factions to change the balance of which of their ships are thriving. Same with Scum -- they need points adjustments (last nerf hit too hard), but they have so many ships that I'm confident they'll be a very healthy faction for a long time yet. Any adjustment that creates upheaval, lifting mountains from valleys and diving others under the waves, will leave the faction feeling fresh and reborn. If rebel beef dies violently and suddenly it's all about rebel aces, or abilities that assist allies, or two-ship lists, then that will be a very fresh change to the faction. If suddenly the Auzituck, A-Wing, and Sheathipede become the new hotness, it'll be pure novelty. And any new pilots released in the coming year are just extra joy.

Whereas Fragrant Odor and The Resisties are entirely dependent on new ships and major point adjustment to even remotely matter. They're stuck in early growing pains that shouldn't have been lengthened by such a long break. Take heart, Empire and Rebs are in a great place, imo.

Also something I found interesting, Republic and Separatist are absurdly tiny, yet they're having a remarkably happy honeymoon. I wonder if that'll last; I kinda think it will, especially since they're getting new ships immediately (no break). Time will tell though.

• Scum: 19
• Rebel: 17
• Empire: 14
• FO: 4 (released)
• Resistance: 4 (released), 5 soon (6 counting transport and pod as separate)
• Republic: 3 (released), 5 soon
• Separatist: 3 (released), 5 soon

FO... I'm sorry. Let's hope points adjustments make up the difference, buddy!

5 hours ago, Wazat said:

• Scum: 19
• Rebel: 17
• Empire: 14
• FO: 4 (released)
• Resistance: 4 (released), 5 soon (6 counting transport and pod as separate)
• Republic: 3 (released), 5 soon
• Separatist: 3 (released), 5 soon

wow, Scum has 19 ships!

depending who you talk to 7-9 of those ships are arguably not seeing play because of their over inflated points or they are just bad (JK5000 anyone? how about Brobots or M3-A intercepter? no?)

sure you can argue a poor choice is better than no choice but my point is the numbers can be misleading.

1 minute ago, Da_Brown_Bomber said:

Im missing seeing Palob and 4-LOM and Kavil which are all still playable, just overly expensive. Some reading this will say just play what you want to play... practice hard with it and beat those squads... fair point... only there is not much there I want to play that I havent played over and over already.

.... Boba/Guri/Fenn/Old Teroch/escape craft/Seevor/Scum Han or even drea scurrgs ... its a small pool of ships/pilots

staying loyal to one faction had its price i guess... I'm feeling it... its called boredom... starting to lose interesting what scum has on offer.

my solution? eek out what you can out of less popular, but still efficient ships/pilots like Shadowcaster/Asajj, Hired Gun with Squad leader... stuff thats a little off the radar but no costed out of the competitive game.

Yea, that touches on the problem of the faction not getting fresh blood.

Some (non-tournament) fleets I've enjoyed, play them while they last (though scum is likely to enjoy point reductions more than increases, at this point, so here's hoping):

Asajj Does Not Share Power

Four Kimogilas?! It'll never work!

Kath's Little Pricks

And my favorite dumb rebel fleet, which I hope goes way down in cost simply because it delights me to use such under-performing ships/pilots:

Wullffwarro War Crimes

FFG: buff the quirky ships again! I miss Jan Ors shenanigans, and helping each other out is so rebel .

2 minutes ago, Da_Brown_Bomber said:

wow, Scum has 19 ships!

depending who you talk to 7-9 of those ships are arguably not seeing play because of their over inflated points or they are just bad (JK500 anyone? how about Brobots or M3-A intercepter? no?)

sure you can argue a poor choice is better than no choice but my point is the numbers can be misleading.

With the power of metawing...

https://meta.listfortress.com/ships?ranking_start=2019-01-28&ranking_end=2019-06-01&large_tournament_multiplier=true&widespread_use_multiplier=true&use_ranking_data=all&tournament_type=5&format_id=&

These are the ships used in 10 or fewer lists at system opens since the points change:

• YT-2400 Light Freighter
• TIE/ag Aggressor
• M3-A Interceptor
• Auzituck Gunship
• YV-666 Light Freighter
• HWK-290 Light Freighter
• M12-L Kimogila Fighter
• TIE Advanced v1
• Quadrijet Transfer Spacetug
• Belbullab-22 Starfighter
• VT-49 Decimator
• Z-95-AF4 Headhunter
• Attack Shuttle
• VCX-100 Light Freighter
• Scavenged YT-1300
• HWK-290 Light Freighter
• MG-100 StarFortress
• G-1A Starfighter
• JumpMaster 5000

1 minute ago, svelok said:

With the power of metawing...

https://meta.listfortress.com/ships?ranking_start=2019-01-28&ranking_end=2019-06-01&large_tournament_multiplier=true&widespread_use_multiplier=true&use_ranking_data=all&tournament_type=5&format_id=&

These are the ships used in 10 or fewer lists at system opens since the points change:

• YT-2400 Light Freighter
• TIE/ag Aggressor
• M3-A Interceptor
• Auzituck Gunship
• YV-666 Light Freighter
• HWK-290 Light Freighter
• M12-L Kimogila Fighter
• TIE Advanced v1
• Quadrijet Transfer Spacetug
• Belbullab-22 Starfighter
• VT-49 Decimator
• Z-95-AF4 Headhunter
• Attack Shuttle
• VCX-100 Light Freighter
• Scavenged YT-1300
• HWK-290 Light Freighter
• MG-100 StarFortress
• G-1A Starfighter
• JumpMaster 5000

That's bordering on a list of my favorite ships. I wonder if I'm just pathologically attracted to underdogs.

But I also love the quirkiness of HWKs, quadrijets, Kimogilas, YV-666, Auzitucks, Starfortresses, and M3-As. And I love the Decimator wherever it is on the ladder.

It'd be neat to see the Jumpmaster back on the table (e.g. Tel Trevura! Manaroo! Even Dengar!), but I think FFG is still being very cautious. They don't need to be, it's been a long time since Jumpmasters ruled the meta, but I can understand their uhh... jumpiness. Pun not intended but I'll take it.

deleted: posted to wrong thread! (asking about icons and maneuver charts for the wiki here instead of the correct thread, dumb me)

Hopefully they can re-balance the points to make Init 4 viable on the other factions. I really like the way Rep and CIS have some of their best pilots at Init 4.

#justiceforvessery

#duchessisfair

I think the last few posts are another clear indicator that 6 months is definitely too long to wait for points changes. If points updated every 4 months (3 might be too much?) everyone would be playing a new game for a much greater portion of the year. Seems like it takes a couple months for the meta to shake out. Right now, that means twice as much time playing a "solved meta" as we have time playing in the wild west.

Please FFG, points changes every quarter!

9 hours ago, gamblertuba said:

I think the last few posts are another clear indicator that 6 months is definitely too long to wait for points changes. If points updated every 4 months (3 might be too much?) everyone would be playing a new game for a much greater portion of the year. Seems like it takes a couple months for the meta to shake out. Right now, that means twice as much time playing a "solved meta" as we have time playing in the wild west.

Please FFG, points changes every quarter!

Oh, 3 months would be too short. Not everyone can play several times a week. 3 months would be a slightly too short window of time.

But 4 months would definitely feel a bit fresher than only every 6 months. Also, if FFG would make a major mistake in balancing, it would be a shorter time window where they loose players. And even if players take a temporaily time-out, as they do not like the current points enviroment, it is a higher chance them returning after 4 months for instead of loosing them for good, as they found other interests in 6 months time.

10 hours ago, svelok said:

With the power of metawing...

https://meta.listfortress.com/ships?ranking_start=2019-01-28&ranking_end=2019-06-01&large_tournament_multiplier=true&widespread_use_multiplier=true&use_ranking_data=all&tournament_type=5&format_id=&

These are the ships used in 10 or fewer lists at system opens since the points change:

• YT-2400 Light Freighter
• TIE/ag Aggressor
• M3-A Interceptor
• Auzituck Gunship
• YV-666 Light Freighter
• HWK-290 Light Freighter
• M12-L Kimogila Fighter
• TIE Advanced v1
• Quadrijet Transfer Spacetug
• Belbullab-22 Starfighter
• VT-49 Decimator
• Z-95-AF4 Headhunter
• Attack Shuttle
• VCX-100 Light Freighter
• Scavenged YT-1300
• HWK-290 Light Freighter
• MG-100 StarFortress
• G-1A Starfighter
• JumpMaster 5000 

That's interesting. So competitively for

Scum 53% (10) of the available ships ( ships, not pilots, only handful pilots is a whole other story for another day ) see play,

Rebel 59% (10), Empire 79% (11), FO 100% (admittedly only 4), Resis 50% (makes 2) , Rep 100% (admittedly only 4) , Separatist 67% (makes 2).

So Empire actually is best rounded right now, seen to ships available for them.

For first order i think the follwing

1. Special forces gunner - 5 points (down to 5 )

2. ALL crew , eccept phasma gets 1-2 point reduction

3. All silenzers , all but Kylo gets a 2-5 point reduction.

4. The uppsilon gets a device slot ( Pretty plzzzzzz!!!!! They cant do anything with aces behind them)

All in all, i think the first order is a good faction,they can bring some hard hitters, but they pay around 10-20 points to much for what they are brining. I have never ever taken a bid with my F-O list... Exept vs other F-O Lists.

49 minutes ago, IgotTargetlocked said:

1. Special forces gunner - 5 points (down to 5 )

Special Forces Gunner down to 5 means 39 point Zetas with gunners. That'd be extreme. 5 SFs with Fanatical is kind of playable, so being able to get five with gunners? That's almost surely a breakpoint which shouldn't be crossed, like 5 X-Wings.

I feel like the 34 base points of a Zeta Survivor is right. I could see a 7-8 point Special Forces Gunner, however. 41-42 for a Gunner-Zeta doesn't seem too inappropriate, given 42 point 104th ARCs.

41-42 points is still to much

Lulo Lampar is 38 base. 4´3 with optics and heroic. thats a ace at i 5.

Arcs points are gona go up i think, but im not sure.

Im not asking for a super duper FO, but i would love to have a pocket Ace. Like Soontir, Lulo, Jake. That ship that omega leader used to be.

Got my hopes upp for the uppcoming new ships from the new movies and series!

Zeta SF is a 41/42 pointer, like the xwing/Arc. Lesser health, more agility, but MOST IMPORTANTLY ****** small bases

I cannot BEGIN to expound upon how much I miss small base Arcs. Medium is so clunky and far less apt at weaving around obstacles

Arcs going up would be dumb. They burn so fast

edit: to expound a bit, medium bases are a liability . It's easier to overlap ships/obstacles, get caught in arc, get caught in bullseye etc. all for being a little bit faster and maybe blocking better

but given how manuever dependent ships like the Arc (slow AF, needs obstacles and clever use of aux arc), K (manuever based bomber; obstacles make killzone for bombs), reaper (compulsory ailerons) and the punisher (dancing deathrain), they've been worse off for the bigger base

the only ships really improved by the medium base are the U, spray, and igs, which got smaller

49 minutes ago, IgotTargetlocked said:

Lulo  La  mpar is 38 base. 4´3 with optics and heroic. thats a ace at i 5.

Nothing should ever be properly compared to Lu’lo. He’s stupid cheap.

38 minutes ago, IgotTargetlocked said:

41-42 points is still to much

Lulo Lampar is 38 base. 4´3 with optics and heroic. thats a ace at i 5.

Arcs points are gona go up i think, but im not sure.

Im not asking for a super duper FO, but i would love to have a pocket Ace. Like Soontir, Lulo, Jake. That ship that omega leader used to be.

Got my hopes upp for the uppcoming new ships from the new movies and series!

L'ulo is widely considered too cheap and almost surely increasing in cost. Plus, the fact that he is limited means that you can't run five of him.

I greatly enjoy the First Order. I've got the conversion kit full fleet--7 FOs, 5 SFs, 3 Silencers, 3 Upsilons. But reducing the sf to broken levels of cheapness isn't the right move. It'd also be a PITA cash grab, since in order to get a 5th copy of SFGunner, folks who already have 5 SFs and the kit would need to buy an expansion. Here's the other thing: if we're looking at overall faction balance, I kinda feel First Order is one of the more fair factions within itself. I think them and Republic are probably two of the better factions in terms of balance, and I'd rather see other factions brought in line with how First Order is.

//

First Order Interceptor looks sweet. A cross between the classic Interceptor and the TAP v1, with a sweet red color. If I'm designing it, I'd probably make it more like the v1, with linked focus actions on Boost/Barrel Roll, rather than Autothrusters, since that's already what the Silencer does. The homebrew idea I'm somewhat obsessed with for a FOI is a 4-dice bullseye weapon, with a 2-dice full arc, and a ship ability that turns off the Range 1 bonus (since 5 dice would be nutty). This would really feel different as a ship from a Silencer.

51 minutes ago, ficklegreendice said:

edit: to expound a bit, medium bases are a liability It's easier to overlap ships/obstacles, get caught in arc, get caught in bullseye etc. all for being a little bit faster and maybe blocking better

Emphasis mine.

But that's actually huge, medium bases are awesome at blocking. For 3xARC or 4xK-wing lists low initiative and medium bases are actually an advantage they need to utilise. People don't tend to focus on blocking much, but it's a large part of tactics and success in this game.

You're going to be blocking FAR less than you'll be limiting your own manuevers

Especially given how easy arcs are to I kill

I'd take the small base any day

Lull definitely needs to go up, I wonder if Heroic will get the Trick Shot treatment and go to 2..?

7 hours ago, FriendofYoda said:

Lull definitely needs to go up, I wonder if Heroic will get the Trick Shot treatment and go to 2..?

Eh. The thing about Heroic is that--mathematically speaking--it's really properly correctly priced at 1 point. It's pretty ubiquitous, but I don't think that's a problem in itself.

if heroic goes up because is too used, the same coule be say about crack shot.

I'm on the fence regarding Lulo's cost (and all A wings btw). While l, It is cheap for a 3 dice, 2 agi, 3 hp ship...it is still only 4 hp. Many times I have seen it pop in the first engagement.

I believe that the problem isn't cheap resistance awings, but that rebel ones are too expensive.

6 minutes ago, DerRitter said:

Many times I have seen it pop in the first engagement.

I mean, so does Soontir.

This means you're getting the engagement wrong. Neither of them should even be in the first engagement; you save them for later like a nice dessert.

9 minutes ago, DerRitter said:

if heroic goes up because is too used, the same coule be say about crack shot.

I'm on the fence regarding Lulo's cost (and all A wings btw). While l, It is cheap for a 3 dice, 2 agi, 3 hp ship...it is still only 4 hp. Many times I have seen it pop in the first engagement.

I believe that the problem isn't cheap resistance awings, but that rebel ones are too expensive.

I definitely don't think heroic should go up, but Lulo's kinda ridiculous

It's more the combination of I 5 + 3 dice + mobile chasis with an "aux arc: that makes him really nutty

Though, given the state of the resistance, I'd sooner knock T-70s and Starforts down than mock Lulo up

FO needs a bit of help - it's unfortunate that they need to lean on the Ups so much.

The silencers could stand to drop a point or two. The inability to take an Evade action really hurts their survivability.

Further, the overpriced nature is apparent when you compare two ships with similar dials and similar health - I am using the PS1 ships since they provide the closest baseline for comparison: Look at the PS1 silencer is 52 points (6 health) and the PS1 resistance xwing is 46 points (7 health, but 1 less evade dice) . The 6 point difference is strange, given that they are pretty close to being the same ship. The silencer's ship ability is strong, but so is the resistance x-wing's ability to add a HLC for 4 points.

You could also compare Blackout (64 points - meh pilot ability) to Nien (59 points - amazing ability) . It seems that either Nien is under costed, or Blackout is a tad overpriced.

With regard to the Tie-SF , either the gunner needs to come down a few points (6-7 points is appropriate).

The Tie FO s should come down 1-3 points each, with the top end pilots coming down 3 points, and the bottom generics coming down 1 point.

The Upsilons, assuming the other ships get point drops, should go up by 2 points across the board.