Well, I'm thinking about buying this game but since it's a sealed box, I can't take a look at it and I'm not sure if I should spend 100$ for it.

So, I've got a few questions:

-If I'm a fan of previous editions of Warhammer Fantasy, will I probably like it or is it that different?

-Is there some kind of saying like: "If you like game X, you'll probably like this game" or "If you hate game X, you'll probably like this game"

Is the mechanics with cards taking a lot of time in a session or is it some kind of new fluid system?

Is it a good RPG for new players? I may have 2 players new to RPGs soon, so would be nice to play something with a low learning curve.

Thanks

I have never played previous versions so can't help on that.

There are plenty of reviews if you google to show various reactions, not as many AP reports (not sure if that says something or not).

I would say it's friendly to new players as once basics are grasped mechanics are in front of you and there isn't lots of book-reference (just as well since editing of book not the best).

Rob

The difficulty of the system is all front-loaded. Character creation takes longer than I'd like it to, but actual play tends to be fast and easy. There is a potential for analysis paralysis, as it's not always easy to compare and parse action cards. That can be solved by encouraging each player to take very different actions. If you take 3 melee attacks, you'll have a lot of trouble figuring out which one is best for the current situation, but if you take one Melee Attack, one Reaction/Defence, and one Social action, for example, you'll always know your best action for the current situation.

It's great for new players, though. The cards do a great job of putting all your options at your fingertips. There's plenty of visual aids to help you keep track of things. There's almost never call to look anything up in a rulebook. You can pick this one up pretty quick, as long as you don't get distracted by trying to read every single action card in the box.

3rd Edition is decidely more heroic than previous versions. Success rate on most skills is nearly double what it was for a starting character in V1 and V2, and that bothers some folks. Personally, I like it, as it makes for faster play and fewer wasted actions. And honestly, while I've loved the setting for years, I never ran the 2nd Edition because the rules struck me as not being the sort of system I'd be happy with.

There's not a lot of setting info in the V3 books, though, so it can actually help to have some familiarity with previous editions. At the same time, you're not particularly penalized for not knowing the setting. As long as the GM fills the PCs in on anything they'd know as it comes up, you'll do fine. You wouldn't want to have someone run afoul of the witchhunters if the player didn't even know witchhunters existed, for example.

I really like this edition.

Gorrath said:

Depends on why you were a fan of the previous additions. I think this verson has taken some of the unique parts of previous versions and re-imagined them (careers, magic, ciritcals). I really like what they have done, but if you compare like for like (numbers of careers in base set, number and types of magic spells etc), it may seem like this version comes up a bit short, but i think this game is trying to be something very different, a basic DnD set for the internet generation, if you like, and IMO it does that very well.

Yes it isn't as complete as some of the previous core rule books, but the number of different ideas and concepts it introduces for expanding upon in later supplements is great. If you buy into the idea that if you really want to play the game long term the supplements are probably more of a neccesity than an optional (that's not to say you cant play the base game only in the longer term; you can..) and are prepared to go with that and wait patiently for FFGs release schedule, then it can be a worthwhile game. The game provides PCs that are generally more capable than in previous editions, but for me that's not neccessarily a bad thing, it just means the story progresses more easily and fights aren't a constant slug fest where you wait patiently to roll low enough and luckily enough to hit something. The dice mechanic, once you get your head around it and begin to pick up some of the unwritten rules from some of the action cards, is a real breath of fresh air.

Gorrath said:

The machanics are pretty light weight compared to some other games. I think this all allows the game to be run easily and smoothly, but it is important to learn and tease out some of the info on the various action cards toreally get a handle on GMing... luckily, you needn't do this from the off set, because no decision the GM makes in error is likely to be a game breaker. The secitons on how to GM and how to improve your GMing skills is a good read for new and experienced GMs alike. I guess if you like really tractical, indepth, a rule for everything type games, this might not be up your street, although the game can certainly be very tactical in nature if that's what is desired, with respect to having action card combos designed for each situation. Conversely if the idea of action card combos make you go cold, the game can easily be played without that too. Each PC can build the character they way they want to and development the way they want to, concentrate on skills and only a few actions cards, or try and design a action combo for every situation at the expense of skill and stats!

I like a lot of different games, but what normally does it for me is a rule set that makes sense and doesn't overly conflict itself, works within the setting, a great setting, and combat that doesn't last an entire evenings play; WFRP V3 delivers that, V2 delivered some of that, although combats could be long and drawn out in my experience, and some stuff seemed like it was tagged on. V1 was great. except for the magic concepts, which we are bit lame and borrowed to much for other games of the period.

Gorrath said:

There is some micro management of counters for action cards and the like, but i think once players get used to do this, it works quite quickly and efficiently. Players do generally need more space than in other games so if yourp layers are used to having a book on their laps and little table space, i think this could be your biggest problem.

Gorrath said:

I think it is a great game (some might say designed for..) new players. If those players have any kind of board game/card game experience, then they should feel at home with a lot of the tactile components of the game. Likewise, i think some of the mechanics borrow concepts from online RPGs, so the computer crowd should not feel overwhelmed and lost either.

It is a big cost to try an RPG but it can be obtained quite cheaply from various on line stores and they all seem to have no problems getting the core set at least, so you should have no problems picking it up for less that $100, if you were interested in giving it a try...

I would suggest checking out the cost of supplements as well. My big concern for this edition is that it is going to be a very expensive rpg. Yes you can save money buying online but that doesn't help your local game store (if you have one). Core Set RRP $99.99, Winds of Magic (which I think will be a must have) $49.99. Unless you know you gonna be running sustained campaigns or at least running regularly, it will prove expensive

r_b_bergstrom said:

Check out the 'Character Helper' in my sig. You can do a character in about 3 mins (minus card selection).

Honestly, it is difficult to compare this system to other systems. It operates on a completely unique level. The components in my actual play experience speed up the game in a number of ways and helps rules not only be referenced, but used in game and make mechanical issues and other technical issues more tangible, thereby more identifiable as rewards or punishments. They help the GM track each player's stasis because big bulky chits are much easier to see than little check boxes and allow quick and sudden interface with the system. They also add tons of flavor that's easy to reference (both for the GM and player) from the location cards to the condition cards and allows the game to morph as the encounter, situation, or story needs it to. The components do not interfere, they actually enhance game-play in ways I continuously discover as time goes on. At first I thought they would be useless and left in my box, I couldn't have been more wrong. Also, all of these components clearly explaining rules and highlighting modifiers to checks makes this game extremely simple for new players to grasp.

Overall, the addition is such a radical shift in RPG design it is not like the previous editions, though some familiar trappings (careers, critical hits, the tone and setting) still exist as well as all the flavor of Warhammer. But for all the good parts lost, the bad is gone as well (ex. the 2nd edition whiff factor).

The dice mechanic I personally view as a welcomed development not only to the game, but to RPG'S overall. If used to their full narrative effect, they radically change the way games and the stories of those games are played. I often joke now that "I can't even read traditional dice, I know I rolled a six, but what does that mean?" It's a joke of course, but highlights the idea these dice tell stories, they give meaning to action and allow both the player and GM to be more creative (if they want to be...this is not required but I highly recommend it) with using the rolls to enhance the game/story. Rather than a simple success/fail mechanic they created a very dynamic mechanic in such a simple and fluid system it seems so obvious now that I am surprised no one has thought of it before. Simply brilliant.

Generation does not take that long. As long as the GM knows the basic function of the Action cards, you can simply ask your player what they want to do, how many actions they want and narrow the deck from the sixty or so options down to three or four for them to pick from. New action cards are acquired fairly easily so, as they grow to learn the system, they can adjust their action cards as the game goes from whatever they started from without a problem. If you do generation this way, character's (the statistical parts that is) can be created in fifteen minutes to a half an hour...honestly....as long as the GM is familiar with the cards (or at least someone at the table is). Just make sure, the guy with the set will have time to go through it and read the rules beforehand, it makes the initial play that much easier.

Lastly, many will comment to you that the cost is inflated, it seems, but you can easily play this game for a long time off the core. Additionally, though some claim you need the expansions to "fully" play the game, I typically argue you don't. The core is a complete game, honestly. Each expansion only adds new flavor, more detail, more options, but the core set gives you exactly that: the most traditional and typical play choices of any game, not just warhammer...from the spells offered to the actions and career options. The other expansions are fantastic and wanting all that nifty flavor and options I bought every expansion. I do not regret buying one of them, but overall they have not dramatically changed what, how, or character choices. Most of what we play with (in terms of characters and character cards) came in the core and most action cards, talents to this day still come from that core. True, the impending magic expansion will be nice, all the expansions were good...but under no circumstances needed. Let me just highlight why this is: the expansion are so well designed (unlike most expansions in other RPG'S - a fact many ignore about the other game systems) that you actually want them and can find something, okay many, useful bits in them. I don't know why people rag on the cost of this game when FFG has created a style of creating useful products instead of a bunch of books that are generally pointless that typically plague the RPG community and the shelves of local stores.

Anyway, to highlight my point: The system is easy, once you get the hang of it. The use of cards and tokens (board game conventions that everyone is already familiar with) give new players a quick interface to the system and allows nearly all the rules to be out in front of them to reference. The bits enhance game play instead of detract from it. The dice are revolutionary to RPG'S. The cost is a bit higher, but everything you can buy for it is useful (unlike most RPG'S on the market), but you can still play just off the core alone. Though it abandons much of the work of the previous editions (other then the framework of careers, miscasts, critical hits, etc.) and the setting does not change, my argument is, why not buy it? I seriously don't think you'll be disappointed.

i`m not sure If this is helpful, but here`s my 60 cent.

I think this game is popular among boardgamers as well,. since it uses many boardgame elements. You will need a large table to play this game.

if you are a laidback player (or you group is ), this game might be hard to sell to them, since it require more structure and focus.

But If you are into boardgames as well I think you will enjoy this game as the different boxes contain a lot of juicy things. I love opening new products from WHFRP.

About the rules, its easy to grasp the basic rules and the dice is not difficult at all to understand, more advanced rules however can be a bit tricky to learn, and especially to learn the structure of the game, since honestly they didn`t do a good enough job with the layout. But luckily for you there are many (and totally free) accesories to download over at hammerzeit that will make it easier for you to grasp the more advanced part of the rules.

If you know a lot about the warhammer world, you will probably be a bit dissapointed with this edition, since it contain nothing new about at world, and a very limited to begin with, but hopefully future expansions will elaborate on that.

Some say that the game is innovative and totaly new in its approach to roleplaying. That is not true, most of that have been done in other games. But what is unique is that it contain so many elements of that combined, that it appears very original. And that appeals to me. It may be true that nothing with this edition of warhammer is new or innovative, but it has SO much of it that combined it might be so.

Did this make any sense,

enough rambling from me and good gaming

commoner said:

I would, as a fan of Warhammer since the 80's, say that Winds of Magic is pretty much essential. According to the site (8th April) it says

"For the GM, The Winds of Magic also introduces the Ruinous Power Tzeentch, his daemonic minions, and insights into the Great Conspirator’s fiendish schemes."

The Chaos powers are fundamental to the setting. Yes, you can play without it but you are missing out on a chunk of the setting. Yes I would agree that the other supplements add to the game (more options etc) but aren't essential. So I'd say $150 minimum outlay (granted less if purchased online), the other supplements optional. To me an expensive game. I am not saying don't buy it, I am saying get the buy in from your players so you play it enough to warrant the outlay

@ commoner. Not trying to have a go at you. The rest of your post is informative and sound, I just think you need Tzeentch in the mix

If you have played or enjoyed any of the Descent games/Expansions put out by FFG you'll already be familiar with some of the principles in this game.

I think the learning curve is pretty minimal. The primary adventure included in the box provides opportunities to put most of the rules provided into play.

After demo-ing this game at my local hobby store for a few individuals, several walked away interested and a few thought the game was simplistic and geared towards beginning RPG groups.

My personal opinion is this game is DIFFERENT.

Everyones got their own opinions on it. In my opinion, if you like Descent or you are looking for a game with the learning curve of a good strategy based board game, you might like this.

If you're looking for WFRP 2nd Edition style rule set, you've come to the wrong place. If you're looking to play in the Old World Empire of Warhammer Fantasy this game might appeal to you.

Liam Kelly said:

And yet, my generation of players all played through the Enemy Within (widely claimed to be the pinnacle of WHFRP) with the only information about the Chaos Powers being half a page in the 1st Edition rulebook.

I think you'd be surprised with how much fun you can have without all the trapping that might now seem necessary, but only because you are used to them from however many years you have been playing in the Warhammer world.

Fair point there Fabs, guess I'd always want whatever Chaos material was available. Ah the Enemy Within, it all went wrong at Bogenhafen!

LeBlanc13 said:

Ah, the old Descent argument. Honestly, though the dice do communicate Critical Hits in a similar manner as descent, this game has nothing to do with Descent. Have you actually played descent? Oh wait, I guess they both use fatigue...so do so many other RPG'S.

To clarify, 3e also has nothing to do with board games at all. It's a roleplaying game that uses cards as an interface instead of check boxes, that's it. The Cards make referencing easier 90% of the time. 3e uses all themechanics that every other RPG use, just a different language to communicate those principles. It's really just a different way of resolving the same events, even though 3e has made a vast improvement on these elements by the use of cards over traditional RPG'S. Saying 3e is like a board game is like saying RPG'S are just like gambling dice games because they use dice.

To me, the advantage of the cards is you don't have to stop the action for a player to write down the effects of his critical or to change his stasis, its handed out. Players also never seem to lose track of those brief stasis changes in a sea of black and white and lead, it is simply handed out, clear as day on a sizable, easy to read card. The other thing Warhammer has done is codify many principles GM'S have been doing for years to help new players out or help GM'S with quick pick up games.

I feel that this game really favors a true storyteller/GM hybrid mentality. A GM who is looking for a system that highly supports them in their capacity to tell the story.

The dice can be structured to mean X = Y. A boon/bane results in what the card or the base generic effect that the rule book states. Just like most game books do. However, once you understand that everything about the dice and system are merely there to facilate better storytelling, then you can really begin to appreciate that this game offers a lot that other games do not.

So like others say, it truly depends on what you want out of a game. Previous editions of warhammer had what I like to call workhorse rules. They aren't fancy but they aren't complicated. In fact, they are pretty **** simple. And that is not a bad thing. The 3rd edition is much more 'advanced' for lack of a better term. They can really allow you to have some great freeform and interpretation during the roles. Probably not great if you're just hoping for a dungeon run sort of game (again nothing wrong with that), but if you want a deeper system, I think that 3rd edition can really support you as the GM.

yeah, if you are looking for a very tactical dungeon crawl maybe wfrp3 is not for you unless you want to play house rule heavy which could be fun. just more than i want to keep track of. but overall wfrp3 is tons of fun. you should definitely buy it. (on amazon. sorry local retailers).

commoner said:

What are all those expansions you're talking about.

I saw the Adventurer's Toolkit, the Game Master's Toolking and The Gathering Storm.

Is there any other books?