“Echo” (50)
Juke (5)
Fifth Brother (9)

Soontir Fel (52)
Crack Shot (1)

Darth Vader (65)
Fire-Control System (2)
Afterburners (6)
Total: 190

View in Yet Another Squad Builder 2.0

I'm normally a rebel player, but I'm 7-1 with this and the loss I know exactly what I did (I fell for the bait and parked Vader R1 of Fenn, Torkil, and Kavil, on the first combat round)

I'm trying to see if there is a way to make it better, but I'm not seeing it. I had "hate" on there but it wasn't really doing anything for me as I'm pretty cagey with Vader. Echo has always been my endgame ship and I have only lost her twice (including the loss).

The debate is Soontir.... do I put Juke on him reducing the bid to 6. or is soontir even the right piece?

Love it. Soontir scares me but I'd like to take the plunge and this is the ideal context for me.

Difficult to tear myself away from a SNR v1 atm, but the Initiaive and bid there are... awkward... in a seemingly increasing I6 scene.

Incidentally, Hatchet Man can fit in here, seen with Whisper and Vader this wknd by a couple of our chaps. Instant thought was that Echo would fit in there.

Not sure Vynder scares me as much if he has to time his double mods.

I’m just starting to fly echo. I’ve been really cautious about declaring since I’m afraid she’ll decloak into a rock, which has happened quite a few times. Some people say to stick to hard turns on your dial if you plan to decloak. Anyone have any other tips flying echo?

Just invest the extra point in Predator for Soontir - you won't regret it

As for Echo - so cool - but I have NO idea if, what with her I4, she'll be as she needs to be

Init has never been a real problem with Echo for me. You can put her So many places and, with only a roll for repo, most of the dodging is at the dial and decloak stage.

Key is having a strong idea of your opponents best available moves and overall flight path. Then select the best spot for Echo, then decipher which of her options puts her there, then figure out where sure can go next from that spot....

No. 1 best tip for gettting used to flying Echo. Decloak out and turn in, simply orbit the battlefield. Switch the direction and range of your orbit as necessary.

Beyond that involves a lot of gambling and some complex route mapping.

Seems like a very much "nothing wrong with it" list. Solid aces built with no extra or strange upgrades.

As to replacing Soontir (who I probably wouldn't replace, but would fly with Predator... I take my coffee with cream no sugar), hrm. There are 63 points available.

• Juke Whisper. Doesn't leave a big bid, but 4 points seems often enough relevant. I think a lot of Anakin/Jedi/[ARC or 2x Torrent] lists run around 198, so 3-4 still seems relevant. I'm not sure I'd personally enjoy two kinds of phantom decloaking in the same game.
• Vynder. There will be some way to kit him out, but he probably also gets most of the bid. He seems less scary to me without a support ship.
• An oddball and thematic ship would be Seventh Sister (I think I mused about a Vader/Sev/Fifth Brother on Echo or Duchess list once...Twilight of the Apprentice!). I'd kit her out with Hate, FCS, and Ion Missiles for 55 points (8 point bid). FCS is just good efficiency. Since Sev's ability needs 2 force, having Hate on their makes it more likely she'll have the charges to cancel an evade result. Ion Missiles get a 3rd attack die, and could be nasty. Being able to cancel an evade result at the right time to sneak an ion token through onto an enemy Ace seems like the kind of thing that only shows up once every 3-4 games, but maybe wins the game outright.
• Support Ships are to taste. I like Lambdas more than Reapers, for no other reason than I think I can fly them better. Vermiel with Tactical Officer and, say, Crack Shot could be nice. Feroph usually has decent enough defenses. Palp Shuttle is a favorite of mine, though.

Oh, I should also mention Collision Detector. With the proliferation of Gas Clouds, ColDet on Phantoms seems really nice. Decloak over an Asteroid or Debris Cloud, and maybe you'll want to spend a charge to avoid taking stress or rolling for damage. However, Gas Clouds can get decloaked-over without any consequence. That'd really eat through any bid available, but they do seem extra fun these days.

*edit*

16 hours ago, pakirby said:

I’m just starting to fly echo. I’ve been really cautious about declaring since I’m afraid she’ll decloak into a rock, which has happened quite a few times. Some people say to stick to hard turns on your dial if you plan to decloak. Anyone have any other tips flying echo?

Collision Detector! I used to fly ColDet Whisper a lot before the January Adjustment, and it was super fun. There's a lot you can do to actively take use decloaks and moves into unexpected places (that is, intentionally fly over the rocks!), but it can also serve as a decent tool for covering mistakes. I think it'll work best when used actively, but that's the sort of stuff that just takes practice.

Juke on Soontir is nice. It has the added benefit of helping me to remind myself to token up rather than reposition just cuz I can.

If you're playing cagey with Vader, Sense might not be a terrible call, as your friends will also benefit with the intel, but there goes your bid.

If I was swapping out Soontir, I'd take a chunk o' 100% certified Angus spacecow:

(48) Captain Kagi [Lambda-class T-4a Shuttle]
(4) ST-321
(0) Jamming Beam
(3) ISB Slicer
(3) Freelance Slicer
Points: 58

Season your beef to taste. Your other two ships aren't exactly starving for actions, so you could drop the title, and consider Palp or mess around with trip 0 and BT1, Cienna's flying circus, or whatever else.

Is Redline with clusters and BT-1 too cute? Barrage Deathrain with some bombs?

I'm probably just going to drop Hate and enjoy a bigger bid. Vader is very popular locally and having the bid is massive. I find hate doesn't trigger enough for me to feel it being worth it. I'm now 16-2 with the list, and I can't see any reason to change anything other than hate at this point. I've debated Predator, but crackshot has been pretty valuable to getting a clutch damage through. I also don't get bullseye as often as I would like... 3 times a game?

The trick to Echo is for sure dancing around the perimeter, not over committing and forcing the enemy to come to you. My favorite is to predict which rock lane they are going to approach to get to her and then find a way to get guns on that lane but have either a rock protecting her or make it hard for them to get her in arc. It's a baiting game for sure.

I usually setup Echo in one of the corners facing horizontally across the board. Gives me options to fly down my side of the board to run away if the setup on the same edge, or start crab walking my way up the vertical edge. With Soontir and Vader being placed last I set them up so one is heading into the rocks and the other is going up the side. Usually this is setup so I can pounce hard on whatever the biggest threat is. Or, I approach slowish and setup my lanes of attack. I always keep Echo on the outside, the general strategy is to herd my opponent into Echo using Vader/Soontir. Use Vader/Soontir to block the escape lanes forcing them into Echo's corner while she dances around them. With all the options you have to decloak she can go ANYWHERE including bugging out if needed, but never into the rocks! If Echo goes into the rock her chances of survival without col.det. is very very low.

I find the list is surprisingly versatile allowing me to fly hard aggro, defensively, or the patient maneuvering game. Against hatchetman I went hard in on my opponents Vader and melted it in a turn. Then used Echo to strafe around the Lambda while Vader/Soontir worked on Vynder (who was surprisingly tough). A Vader/Oic list died very easily with a very quick pounce on Vader and then strafing Oic staying out of the range 1 bubble). double schim's isn't even a game with Echo being able to out position the big lugs. They operate much like echo...they go in the rocks and they die... so I herd them into the rocks!

I'm very happy with this list, the happiest I've been in 2.0 in a very very long time. The Tie Swarm has been the biggest challenge to take down...

3 hours ago, Wiredin said:

I usually setup Echo in one of the corners facing horizontally across the board. Gives me options to fly down my side of the board to run away if the setup on the same edge, or start crab walking my way up the vertical edge.

Love to hear more about how other people fly Echo. Ive never seen her playe with my own eyes, if not by my own hand.

I need to experiment a bit more with my deployment, Haven't explored it much and always do the exact same thing. But I find it works, so... :shrugs:

I go centre, facing horizontally, direction dependent on various things. Then 1 hard in. Basically so I'm deployed on turn 2, right in the middle, facing fwd. All decloaks available and easy to go virtually anywhere in the rear third of the map. A 4 straight can give you either flank, a fwd decloak and 3 bank can make a for very temptingly close flanking threat. A lot of the time, its simply a decloak back and slow turn to set up fast options in either direction next turn.

It can and does lead to vulnerable positions against real fast approaches, but I still like the doubt it casts on where she'll be. I have occasional games where my opponents will halt a rush down one flank because they don't want Echo slipping past, buying time for the rest of the squad to set a better turn in.

I tend to fly her very fast, which causes my regular opponents considerable discomfort, not knowing when she'll pop the 3 speeds and shift to sniping position.

Rocks are bad, but I still do it. It's a gamble. If I can get a position in there that I don't think they'll cover, such that I have a fast lane out and into a really good bit of board space, I'll often take it. This tends to be where I lose the half points, I'm not a great gambler

But making the thrust, getting it right and having Echo just loiter and destroy things unanswerably for a few turns is well worth a risk.

I've (almost) litterally been playing Echo all game every game since V1. My best tips for echo is that she is an EXCELLENT flanker, but you never want to throw her into the thick of it. She can easily fly around the map and kinda bait one or two ship but never moving closer by banking out, hard or bank 1, and trying to always be at a 45* angle to barrel roll out when needs be.
And most importantly : collision detector + gas cloud = one very happy phantom. Always able to decloak through a cloud without spending a charge opens up her option considerably, and when needs be you can put yourself on a cloud, ignore it, so when you attack you're not obstructed, but you still get the autothruster effect to protect yourself.

I have always loved echo, flown her more than whisper.

My fav list is normally with a hr swarm. Let my opponent chew through 4 ties and hr while echo gets shots off. Even have room for coll det and afterburners if you want for even more unpredictable flying

Aces sounds really fun to. May have to try it out sometime