33 minutes ago, theBitterFig said:

Would it be, though? A standard-ish Wedge/Braylen/Cassian/4th list typically has all the named pilots they want and a decent amount of toys. Even with a generic pilot or two in the mix, I think the list still can be pretty strong. A few tweaks on point costs would mean that listbuilders have to make a few harder choices, not that the archetype is finished. Even with less optimal choices, the list is still above average, I believe.

I understand the impulse, but I'm not sure of this particular application. I dislike that non-issue upgrades for these slots get massive point increases. Crack Shot and Trick Shot Phantoms see a price increase, which means that Juke would still be the only viable Talent pick, even if the total package is more expensive. No one will ever be able to put a 7 point Fire Control System on Guri. Just feels like there'd be a lot of collateral damage.

On top of that, this is already close enough to full-spreadsheet-points enough that there's probably not much simplicity gained this method, rather than naming specific upgrade/pilot combinations to get increased costs.

That’s fair. Of course, Guri would basically never take any sensor other than AS anyway, except maybe with the title.

10 minutes ago, K13R4N said:

That makes sense, I could imagine FFG would do negative points Kihraxz Modifications and I would like to see something happen to B wing Cannons (lore reasons) but additional points ruin other upgrades of that slot type, your examples prove this point, just another point is Han with anything other then ID, 7 points for Deadmans switch thats a Advanced Proton Torp!

This makes me think of an interesting thing they could do withotu errating any ships or publishing any new configs or whatever - slots with discounts attached. Like, K-Fighters could get Modifications with 0, then -1, then -2 points attached to each mod slot. So your first mod is normal price, the second is -1, the third is -2, for instance. This could be in the points PDF.

1 hour ago, Porkchop Express said:

So basically everybody wants Rebels to be returned to theirnold points, plus increase a few other ships like Wedge?

Ir that happens, that's an entire faction gone from the game, again.

Putting Rebels on their old points doesn't also put Scum and Empire on their old points.

In case living memory has forgotten the Before Times, the lists that bullied Rebels out of the large pre-season tournaments were by and large hit with 15-25 point nerfs.

Context is pretty important 😛

RIP scum

Honestly the Rebels aren’t entirely too powerful. Their main advantage is that their I3-4 pilots are pretty well priced. If this were reflected across the board and all the 5-6s were upped a bit (except Boba, Redline, Dengar, etc. Who are costly enough as-is) I think the game would be in a GREAT place.

Well, maybe decrease the I3 generics too. They’re worse at blocking and still can’t dodge, so all they really gain is a talent slot.

1 hour ago, svelok said:

Putting Rebels on their old points doesn't also put Scum and Empire on their old points.

In case living memory has forgotten the Before Times, the lists that bullied Rebels out of the large pre-season tournaments were by and large hit with 15-25 point nerfs.

But it also hitted the old rebel list pretty hard: Proton Torpedoes, Jan Ors, Moldy Crow, Sabine, Ap5, Zeb.

Also in the old points Y wings, B wings, A wings and the falcon were out of the meta.

In January we had a massive bid war, now rebels and phantoms bring several good pieces ar in 4, that allows more aces (in 5, 6) to see play at lower bids. Which in turn *should* helps for a more diverse meta.

While I belive Leia is bit too cheap and 4x phantomd are too good. I don't want to see them out of the meta and return to thr in 5 bid war.

Maybe the path is to find new list/upgrades that counter these archetypes? Like the new range 2 bomb or even plasma torps.

On 5/29/2019 at 3:10 PM, svelok said:

Putting Rebels on their old points doesn't also put Scum and Empire on their old points.

In case living memory has forgotten the Before Times, the lists that bullied Rebels out of the large pre-season tournaments were by and large hit with 15-25 point nerfs.

There's plenty of current lists out there that already beat Rebel Beef, and if we nerf them to old pointw, they will be dead, regardless if Redline and Boba stay on their current points.

52 minutes ago, Porkchop Express said:

There's plenty of current lists out there that already beat Rebel Beef, and if we nerf them to old pointw, they will be dead, regardless if Redline and Boba stay on their current points.

Care to elaborate on what exactly you think the meta monsters would be if Rebels get a slight nerf and Quad Phantoms aren't a thing?

1 hour ago, Micanthropyre said:

Care to elaborate on what exactly you think the meta monsters would be if Rebels get a slight nerf and Quad Phantoms aren't a thing?

Named B-Wings and VTG both need to go up a point or two (or the B-Wing should go up 5 and get free/discounted cannons as I've always said).

Pilots like Wedge need to actually pay for their initiative and ability.

That done, I think the game would be fine.

4 minutes ago, ClassicalMoser said:

Named B-Wings and VTG both need to go up a point or two (or the B-Wing should go up 5 and get free/discounted cannons as I've always said).

Pilots like Wedge need to actually pay for their initiative and ability.

That done, I think the game would be fine.

Yup. I will even accept Soontir getting a points raise, despite him being very fairly costed due to how prone he is to popping with only 3 Hull, if it is part of a broader ‘all I5 and I6 pilots (with limited exceptions) get bumped’ initiative.

28 minutes ago, millertime059 said:

Yup. I will even accept Soontir getting a points raise, despite him being very fairly costed due to how prone he is to popping with only 3 Hull, if it is part of a broader ‘all I5 and I6 pilots (with limited exceptions) get bumped’ initiative.

Exceptions, yes. Definitely think Boba and Redline are fair where they are, and there's no way rebel Fenn Rau needs to go up. Even scum Fenn has a kinda hard time sometimes, though I could still see a bump for him and Guri as a possibility, especially if their initiatives become rarer. Dengar probably needs to go down though. Jumpmaster needs an errata or config so badly. I like the new dial and all, but the firepower on that thing is just abysmal.

10 minutes ago, ClassicalMoser said:

Jumpmaster  needs an errata or config so badly. I like the new dial and all, but the firepower on that thing is just abysmal. 

Dengar is mostly fine, firepower-wise, because i6 Torp Are Good, although the other pilots don't have that advantage unless FFG lets them take passive sensors.

On 5/29/2019 at 10:28 AM, DerRitter said:

Also in the old points Y wings, B wings   ,  A wings and the falcon were out of the meta  . 

Ys were definitely in the old meta. Norra and Dutch were regular inclusion in 4-ship salad and 3-ship torps.

And Bs were in the secret meta

1 minute ago, svelok said:

Dengar is mostly fine, firepower-wise, because i6 Torp Are Good, although the other pilots don't have that advantage unless FFG lets them take passive sensors.

Torp-boats is just such a sad niche for a scout craft. It should be a great little solo ship with some independence.

The title giving a 3 front arc would help a ton with action economy etc. and a gunner slot would probably push it a little further toward playability. Manaroo is just dead though. R1 for a ship that utterly sucks at range control is a permanent and impossible no-go, and the ability isn't even good anyway.

The silencers could stand to drop a point or two. The inability to take an Evade action really hurts their survivability.

Further, the overpriced nature is apparent when you compare two ships with similar dials and similar health - I am using the PS1 ships since they provide the closest baseline for comparison: Look at the PS1 silencer is 52 points (6 health) and the PS1 resistance xwing is 46 points (7 health, but 1 less evade dice) . The 6 point difference is strange, given that they are pretty close to being the same ship. The silencer's ship ability is strong, but so is the resistance x-wing's ability to add a HLC for 4 points.

You could also compare Blackout (64 points - meh pilot ability) to Nien (59 points - amazing ability) . It seems that either Nien is under costed, or Blackout is a tad overpriced.

Something to chew on - maybe someone from FFG will notice the difference as well.

On 5/26/2019 at 10:50 PM, ficklegreendice said:

apply republic Arc point-scaling to name pilots with potent (re: dice modding) abilities!

provided we aren't talking about fodder ships, ofc

You know, a lot of people have complained about the point scaling on Arc and Torrent generics and want point reductions, but what if that scaling is a test or a preview of what’s going to happen across the board with the next update? If you think about it, the costs aren’t that out of line. A Blue Squadron Protector with Juke is 9 points more than a Gold Squadron Trooper, and that feels about right, to be honest.

Interesting read. Thanks for all of the thoughts (even the ones I disagree with).

I still have a lot less experience with this game than most of you so I'm not going to pretend to be a grand authority. But my thoughts:

I'm satisfied with FFG's template for making changes to values in the game and I prefer to keep things simple. Push comes to shove, I would like the ability to calculate a team with pencil and paper. There is a hazard to needed a web app or a spredsheet to calculate team values.

By the nature of the game that FFG designed, certain combinations are just going to work better and I like how most factions have a (mostly) unique flavor. I think it would be preferable to instead of nerfing well performing teams, instead to incentivise other weaker components so that they can be more effective.

B-Wings: I've been playing around with B-Wings a lot this last 6 months and I like them. However, the cannons are mostly useless on B--Wings. I've gotten some Tractor Beams to work to good effect, but Jamming Cannons are useless. I would be better off just shooting someone with the primary blasters as I have a better chance of clearing off a Focus or Evade token with those weapon systems. (the exception to that is the shield reinforcement but I've flown against so few of those types of ships). Heavy Laser Canons, with their bullseye only targeting are WAY too easy to evade against the B-Wing's PS 4 initiatives. I never get a B-Wings Bullseye lined up on a 2+ range shot as things stand. And I'm just unlucky with Ion Cannon's. I can take the same dice with blasters and roll hits and crits all day long but as soon as I use them to shoot an Ion Cannon they all come up blanks.* (But that's just me . . . I think I have an Ion Weapons curse or something like that).

Proton Torpedoes (Adv & Std) are too expensive. (I don't dare try Ion Torps ). I love using them but at their current pricing they are WAY too expensive.

That's all I have that might be useful.

* I have TWICE flown 3 B-Wings with Ion Cannons. In both games when I employed the Ions, I NEVER hit. I might have gotten MAYBE 1 hit result on a rare Ion Attack. I even recall ganging up on a single ship with three Ion Cannons and MISSING with EVERYTHING. The next turn I switched to Blasters and roasted the ship from the board. Yet another reason for me to fly my B-Wings without upgrades.

15 hours ago, Micanthropyre said:

Care to elaborate on what exactly you think the meta monsters would be if Rebels get a slight nerf and Quad Phantoms aren't a thing?

Dreadloks if they aren't addressed as well. Also Ace list, some like Vader/Soontir/Duchess can bid really deep, but Leia and Phantoms keep them in check somewhat. Jedis are already really strong and will only get stronger. Inferno Squadron is extremely powerful. Upsilons are good, but may go out if Aces make a comeback.

Drea and Vet Turret Gunner need increases. Not convinced Scurgggs are a problem.