is CLT ever worth taking? It looks okay on paper?

Heck, is a Delta without a config worth taking? I have a severe loathing for pea-shooter offense so I honestly haven't tried it. Honestly, I think the base costs of the pilots seem a bit high, though they do have innate force...

I'm hoping CLT and the base price of all Aethersprites goes down while 7B becomes more expensive. Then maybe we'll see some more configuration variety.

54 minutes ago, Blail Blerg said:

Heck, is a Delta without a config worth taking?

I’ve been having some luck at our local weekly group with Luminara using no configuration. Granted, she’s more of a support piece at that point, but focus + Sinker’s reroll helps boost the 2 die attack reliability.

And the 4x v19 generics doing it to helps.

Is the I2 Arc at the right cost? Just wondering. Only flown the 4 arc list, but that list has terrible movement, so dunno if 1-2 arcs by themselves is a good buy

Honestly I feel the 104th and most named pilots are at least decent. Except Oddball. But I always feel they are worthwhile.

The I2 is if anything low. Not obscenely or anything. But it is a lot of ship for the price, at the expense of medium base and somewhat limited moves.

The medium base hurts. And the dial is awful. The action bar ain't great either. And at I2 these things kind of soak and die.

10 hours ago, millertime059 said:

The I2 is if anything low. Not obscenely or anything. But it is a lot of ship for the price, at the expense of medium base and somewhat limited moves.

Compared to a lot of other ships, 42 points feels low to me. 1 point more than a B-Wing or X-Wing, 2 points less than a Gunner TIE/sf. ARC is unequivocally tougher than a TIE/sf, cheaper, and the guns always work. Doesn't maneuver as well to be sure, but it's still 2 points cheaper while being better in terms of pure jousting value.

On the other hand, the 104th hasn't been winning like crazy. So the low-seeming price doesn't appear to be causing a problem.

17 hours ago, Maui. said:

This seemed like the most appropriate thread to post this in because I just didn't feel like making a new thread about it.

Calibrated Laser Targeting still seems really weird to me points-wise and I can't think of a reason to ever take it over 7B. 7B just offers significantly more advantages and is always worth the cost. Even if your list is over points, there's always something else you'd rather cut than take the drop from 7B to CLT. Four CLT Jedi not only has fewer hit points than three 7B Jedi, it also throws fewer red dice (unless you can reliably get modded bullseye shots). Even with the higher cost, 7B is just plain better in just about every circumstance. That being said, I don't think 7B Jedi are at all overpowered compared to the rest of the game, which means that CLT is too expensive for what you get. However, make CLT too cheap and there's no reason to ever run an Aethersprite without a config, and we're already pretty close to that territory as it is.

So I thought of two solutions as sort of 'fixes' that might make CLT worth taking. One of them is significantly more realistic than the other one, so we'll start with that one.

1) Increase 7B slightly while also reducing base Jedi costs by the same amount . This would not change the overall price of 7B Jedi, which seems to be reasonably balanced, but would reduce the cost of fielding naked Aethersprites and make something like a no-config support Jedi viable. This also leaves more room in the middle for a moderately-priced CLT. I also think that scaling both configs by initiative is a bit awkward, and that CLT could just as easily scale by the number of Force charges available to the pilot. As this solution only adjusts point costs, it's perfectly doable.

2) Add a red evade to CLT . This would necessitate errata and therefore falls under the category of HAHA YEAH RIGHT NOOB but I think it would actually justify the cost of CLT compared to 7B while also sharpening the identity of the CLT Aethersprite. This would give you three very distinct variants--stripped down and inexpensive with no configuration; an agile but fragile interceptor with CLT; a superiority fighter with 7B--each with a justifiably different price point. A red evade wouldn't exactly be broken, especially since Jedi don't have access to Debris Gambit and their blues aren't super stellar without an R4 astromech. This config would be a bit more expensive for lower-initiative pilots than the current version, probably costing something like 10-12 points less than 7B at all initiatives.

#2 first: I can kinda see it. CLT is going to have much more strenuous claims on their actions than 7B, with the desire for focus to convert eyes and support 3 green dice, and for locks to fix blanks, and now with a red Evade? There's no way to get all of them, and whatever you give up matters. R4 would be amazing with a red evade, but the droid slot is pretty important. Getting regen from R2 on essentially a TIE Interceptor would be really sweet. As you note, it's errata thus "aint gonna happen," but seems like a better idea than most errata suggestions I've read onhere.

#1: points adjustment certainly would be a lot easier. I'd do it in three parts:

All Aethersprite prices down 1. Delta 7B up 1 (keeps the same scaling). CLT goes to costing 1 point per initiative, so a reduction in both total cost and scaling. Results:

• All 7B configs remain the same price. These are mostly fine, and there's a whole other thread for Barriss Offee.
• Jedi Knights with CLT are 41 points, so don't change N-per-List bracket. I don't like making bracket/breakpoint changing suggestions by and large, unless it's a revision of like every breakpoint.
• The net reduction in the cost of a CLT variant is (Initiative minus 1). So Anakin goes down by 5 points, which would put him at 65 rather than 70, contrast 78 of 7B. Obi-Wan goes down 4 points to 57 with CLT, rather than 61, contrast 70 with 7B. So it'd be 13 points cheaper to run CLT than 7B, which might be tempting enough.
  • I don't necessarily think 4 points on the Init 4 Jedi like Luminara is too cheap. It's enough that maybe it gets cut for a droid, or a named pilot over a generic elsewhere in the list. On the other hand, if it is kind of stapled onto support Jedi, I think it'd be fun. It's a decent-enough bullseye effect, and those can be somewhat exciting when they finally happen. Basically, it's HLC price, which seems like enough of a cost to matter, but probably fun to squeeze in.

6 hours ago, Blail Blerg said:

The medium base hurts. And the dial is awful. The action bar ain't great either. And at I2 these things kind of soak and die.

Myepppp

And at 42, they're priced appropriately where that can be their job

But I always gotta stress just how ******* limiting that medium base is. It's a massive drawback outside the singular purpose of blocking (made not terribly easy by slow dial and no boost) which makes the 42 point cost more than reasonable

I mean I don’t quite agree that their dial is terrible either.

Its the Y-wing dial, but better. It is arguably better than the Torrent. Somewhat limited? Sure. But 6 blues and some white hard turns? Very acceptable.

terrible might be a stretch if we're taking into consideration some of the worst dials in the game

but it is heavily limited in conjunction with the medium base. Only having white 2-turns makes maneuvering an awful pain at times.

This is good. It is good to have weaknesses . Just gotta recognize that they're 42 points for a reason.

Would you rather have arc or xwing? Almost same value

18 minutes ago, Blail Blerg said:

Would you rather have arc or xwing? Almost same value

obviously Arc because the Arc is beautiful

but if I rather have an Arc Arc or an x-wing arc, it's a toss up (appropriate, given the cost). The Arc is chunkier and has an aux arc, but the X-wing is vastly more maneuverable and has that lovely small base.

Because of its maneuverability, I think the X-wing makes a FAR superior higher I platform. At lower I, the X is probably a better compliment to higher maneuverability ships (kinda like the n1 will probably be) while the Arc forms a better "wall" if you can work around medium base problems

So like, I'd rather have Obi-wan and 3 X-wings but I'd stick with Lumy/Mace and 3 arcs keeping their fat asses between the jedi and their enemies