8 minutes ago, AnomalousAuthor said:

This. So much this. It can be like pulling teeth to get players that are new to the system to use destiny points, but the game is really designed around using them fairly often, not hoarding them.

It can be the GM as well, just saying. However, the very reason it's fundamentally flawed is due to the design inherently being based on them being used by either side frequently, so frequently that it can be considered that at least one destiny point will almost always be available for the force using player. Which can be very far from how it actually is panning out it the game.

4 minutes ago, InfinityIncarnate said:

It can be the GM as well, just saying. However, the very reason it's fundamentally flawed is due to the design inherently being based on them being used by either side frequently, so frequently that it can be considered that at least one destiny point will almost always be available for the force using player. Which can be very far from how it actually is panning out it the game.

If the gm is not giving them back call them on it.

6 minutes ago, InfinityIncarnate said:

It can be the GM as well, just saying. However, the very reason it's fundamentally flawed is due to the design inherently being based on them being used by either side frequently, so frequently that it can be considered that at least one destiny point will almost always be available for the force using player. Which can be very far from how it actually is panning out it the game.

Honestly, that sounds like it has more to do with how you guys are using them then. Is your GM using them in such a manner that you’ll have one available when a climactic moment is imminent? They should be. You also shouldn’t be using them for every force check, that’s the path to the darkside right there. Unless, of course, you wanna go darkside, then I’d say go for it.

1 hour ago, Daeglan said:

It is also quicker. You are more likely to get what you need. So yes quicker.

On the contrary, you're more likely to get what you need with the light side.

The probability to get at least one point with one force dice:
Light side: 41,667%
Dark side: 58,333%

The probability to get at least two points with one force dice:
Light side: 25%
Dark side: 8,333%

As you can see it's easier and faster to get one dark side point.
However, if you need two, it's easier and faster to get the two light side points.

Getting a higher force rating doesn't really change this, as long as the sided force point need goes up, so will the difference between the probabilities.

This also indicates that a dark side force user will be weaker in comparison to light side force user of same force rating, which I've pointed out before.
Let me elaborate on this for for further clarification, say you have two force users of FR 3 testing their force strength.

As the force rating is static and they have the same force rating, they should be equally strong.
They both have an equal amount of dices, one would think they have an equal probability of at least matching each others force strength.
The maximum amount both can score with 3 force dice is 6, their probability is:
Light side: 1.56%
Dark side: 0.06%

As you can clearly see, even with the numbers being very low, there is still a very, very noticeable difference, so much of a difference that it's statistically more likely for the light side user to get all 6 before the dark side user.
This it gets worse for both side as more points are needed, even with the the minimum force rating to match, and it gets much worse for the dark side user than the light side user as the needed number goes up.

In terms of dice probability in regards to each other, the light side distribution is considered unfair, especially when more force dice is added to the dice pool.

So, tell me, me again which was the easier, quicker and stronger than the other? It's quite clear to me that it depends on two factors, how much is actually needed and how many force dice is available, but it's also clear to me that the dark side force user is actually much weaker at higher force ratings compared to a light side force user of same force rating. To me this seems broken. Obviously, the destiny point "fixes" this issue, but the dark side user is still at a disadvantage as it does as well require an mount of strain equal to the amount light side points that is converted, which is just worsened by the fact that the max strain is lowered for a dark side user. I'm sorry to say, but the dark side user, is actually far weaker because of all of it combined.

1 hour ago, AnomalousAuthor said:

Honestly, that sounds like it has more to do with how you guys are using them then. Is your GM using them in such a manner that you’ll have one available when a climactic moment is imminent? They should be. You also shouldn’t be using them for every force check, that’s the path to the darkside right there. Unless, of course, you wanna go darkside, then I’d say go for it.

This isn't a matter of our GM doing this, despite our GM is actually not use the destiny points often, nor up to climactic moments. However, my point was general and really has nothing to do with what GM does or does not do in relation to the destiny dice. Going for the dark side, would be cool thematically, but power wise it wouldn't make much sense as I've just illustrated above they're actually weaker by design, UNLESS they spend destiny points, take strain to even it out, because otherwise they're actually weaker in terms of force point generation. But the fact that they have to take strain to even it out, when they're already taking penalties to max strain, only worsens the fact that they have to take strain to be able to even out that difference. It may be for both sides, that when it comes to spending force points, they don't need as many as they get more force power upgrades to achieve the same, to me this indicates an imbalanced combination of mechanics, as it really for the most parts defeats the purpose of getting more force rating, especially due to the fact that you can use destiny to get access to more force points.

Looks like you’ve discovered the point Yoda was making to Luke back on Dagobah. The dark side is supposed to be weaker. It’s easier to use but weaker overall. As you’ve written, the system reflects this. What’s the problem?

edit: Just to add, but you can combine light and dark side pips if you decide to.

A note that should be made. If a force user uses 1 dark side pip and 2 light side pips to generate the 3 force points they need they are still considered to be using the dark side. Look at all the force abilities that denote a difference between dark and light almost all of them say "if any Dark side were used to generate force points......" This means if you have a force rating of 3 and roll 4 light and 1 dark and decide to use 1 dark... you are using the dark side. This is because it is not possible to narratively use the dark and the light at the same time because to use the dark you must be passionate, to use the light you must be dispassionate, it is literally impossible to be both at the same time unless you have some form of split personality or dissociative identity disorder, before you bring revan up realize he actually has DiD, if you do not believe me check out star wars the old republic MMO, where 2 revans actually exist at the same time, one being the light that died and became a force ghost and the other being the dark physical being. When he fought the emperor one part of him accepted his loss and died becoming one with the force and the other half of him rejected it and used the dark side to cling to life. Remember also that the council were actually the ones that created the second personality when they locked the darth revan memories behind a force wall in his head and crafted an entirely new history for him in KoToR, yes he regained his memories and the 2 identities were not really aware that there were 2 identities and they largely thought in unison, but the fact that there was enough of an extreme difference in revan that it can create a force ghost while his body still lived proves that 1 being did not actually occupy that body. Ultimately there are 2 revans.... Darth Revan and Revan Reborn. Revan Reborn is KoToR Player Revan and light side, Darth Revan is Falled Jedi Revan and Dark Side.

So suffice to say that a "dark side" force user doesnt really generate lower force points because using "light pips" is not him being corrupted by the light side and him going more over to it, but rather it is him forcibly corrupting and bending the force to his will. While a light side user using dark pips is simply giving themselves over to the dark side a little and ALLOWING the force to be corrupted..... any way this is my view point and how I have always understood things. Gray jedi are done perfectly fine the way the system is, they are Light side force users that use the force how they feel they need to and must for whatever with no qualms about drawing on the power for what is all around good, though there is always the danger with this and just check the morality system Justice/ cruelty for more details on what a person using whatever power is needed for what they think is right. There are never dark side users that are "grey" because they are the ones that went to far.

22 minutes ago, tunewalker said:

A note that should be made. If a force user uses 1 dark side pip and 2 light side pips to generate the 3 force points they need they are still considered to be using the dark side. Look at all the force abilities that denote a difference between dark and light almost all of them say "if any Dark side were used to generate force points......" This means if you have a force rating of 3 and roll 4 light and 1 dark and decide to use 1 dark... you are using the dark side. This is because it is not possible to narratively use the dark and the light at the same time because to use the dark you must be passionate, to use the light you must be dispassionate, it is literally impossible to be both at the same time unless you have some form of split personality or dissociative identity disorder, before you bring revan up realize he actually has DiD, if you do not believe me check out star wars the old republic MMO, where 2 revans actually exist at the same time, one being the light that died and became a force ghost and the other being the dark physical being. When he fought the emperor one part of him accepted his loss and died becoming one with the force and the other half of him rejected it and used the dark side to cling to life. Remember also that the council were actually the ones that created the second personality when they locked the darth revan memories behind a force wall in his head and crafted an entirely new history for him in KoToR, yes he regained his memories and the 2 identities were not really aware that there were 2 identities and they largely thought in unison, but the fact that there was enough of an extreme difference in revan that it can create a force ghost while his body still lived proves that 1 being did not actually occupy that body. Ultimately there are 2 revans.... Darth Revan and Revan Reborn. Revan Reborn is KoToR Player Revan and light side, Darth Revan is Falled Jedi Revan and Dark Side.

So suffice to say that a "dark side" force user doesnt really generate lower force points because using "light pips" is not him being corrupted by the light side and him going more over to it, but rather it is him forcibly corrupting and bending the force to his will. While a light side user using dark pips is simply giving themselves over to the dark side a little and ALLOWING the force to be corrupted..... any way this is my view point and how I have always understood things. Gray jedi are done perfectly fine the way the system is, they are Light side force users that use the force how they feel they need to and must for whatever with no qualms about drawing on the power for what is all around good, though there is always the danger with this and just check the morality system Justice/ cruelty for more details on what a person using whatever power is needed for what they think is right. There are never dark side users that are "grey" because they are the ones that went to far.

Which fits. Because as Lightside users get more force rating that are more reliably able to pull off tricks using only the lightside. But early on they do not have the self control to do so all the time. so they dip a little to accomplish things. but as long as the player is conscientious and careful they will still head towards the light.

3 hours ago, AnomalousAuthor said:

Looks like you’ve discovered the point Yoda was making to Luke back on Dagobah. The dark side is supposed to be weaker. It’s easier to use but weaker overall. As you’ve written, the system reflects this. What’s the problem?

edit: Just to add, but you can combine light and dark side pips if you decide to.

Thats actually incorrect. Yoda, says NOTHING about the dark side being weaker. Luke asks if the dark side is stronger and says no to that, but that doesn't mean that he's implying that the light side is stronger or that the dark side is weaker. The problem is that the dark side is actually by design mechanically a lot weaker, even with the same force rating, even though there is nothing to actually support that the light side is actually stronger. In fact, there is a lot that suggest thats the dark side is stronger, or the very least it has some qualities that makes dark side users seem more physically powerful and capable. Consider the fact they actually have to have a much higher force rating to reliably be able to get the same amount dark side points without having to spend a destiny point to achieve it, a higher force rating than a light side user. But dark side users also have a reduced maximum strain threshold which makes even less sense. Furthermore, as they spend that destiny point to convert light side points, they take strain equal to the amount of light side points converted, and when you then take into account that their maximum strain threshold is reduced, they're suddenly much less physically capable as a result. And like I said, there is nothing that suggests that the light side is actually stronger than the dark side, and from a game mechanical and balance stand point, it's actually quite imbalanced.

4 minutes ago, InfinityIncarnate said:

Thats actually incorrect. Yoda, says NOTHING about the dark side being weaker. Luke asks if the dark side is stronger and says no to that, but that doesn't mean that he's implying that the light side is stronger or that the dark side is weaker. The problem is that the dark side is actually by design mechanically a lot weaker, even with the same force rating, even though there is nothing to actually support that the light side is actually stronger. In fact, there is a lot that suggest thats the dark side is stronger, or the very least it has some qualities that makes dark side users seem more physically powerful and capable. Consider the fact they actually have to have a much higher force rating to reliably be able to get the same amount dark side points without having to spend a destiny point to achieve it, a higher force rating than a light side user. But dark side users also have a reduced maximum strain threshold which makes even less sense. Furthermore, as they spend that destiny point to convert light side points, they take strain equal to the amount of light side points converted, and when you then take into account that their maximum strain threshold is reduced, they're suddenly much less physically capable as a result. And like I said, there is nothing that suggests that the light side is actually stronger than the dark side, and from a game mechanical and balance stand point, it's actually quite imbalanced.

And we are not saying it is weaker. We are saying it is easier quicker. Which is what the dice result in. It is easier to tap into. It is quicker to to get access to.

2 minutes ago, Daeglan said:

And we are not saying it is weaker. We are saying it is easier quicker. Which is what the dice result in. It is easier to tap into. It is quicker to to get access to.

But I'm saying that the dark side in the system is weaker, that is obvious. Furthermore the light side is actually quicker, because of the probability of getting two light side force points per force dice being higher than when trying to get two dark side force points per force dice. It's easier to get one dark side force point per force dice than light thus it's easier, but not quicker. The light side on the force dice reflects it's quicker than the dark side.

2 minutes ago, InfinityIncarnate said:

But I'm saying that the dark side in the system is weaker, that is obvious. Furthermore the light side is actually quicker, because of the probability of getting two light side force points per force dice being higher than when trying to get two dark side force points per force dice. It's easier to get one dark side force point per force dice than light thus it's easier, but not quicker. The light side on the force dice reflects it's quicker than the dark side.

It's not weaker because you can do all sorts of messy stuff and be dark. To stay light you need to be good, and that itself is going to seem weak to a pragmatic force user. The quicker pay comes not from force dice, but from the ultimate path you take. The light side guy has to weave around Conflict or else loose their path. The dark side guy can take all sorts of shortcuts through Conflict.

2 hours ago, Daeglan said:

And we are not saying it is weaker. We are saying it is easier quicker. Which is what the dice result in. It is easier to tap into. It is quicker to to get access to.

Nah, I’m definitely saying that the dark side is weaker. lol. The dark side is as misleading as it is seductive. It’s still very dangerous and shouldn’t be underestimated, but it gives a false impression of superior power through its accessibility and showiness. The light side is more difficult to master and, in the long run, more powerful, but it’s not nearly as showy.

12 hours ago, InfinityIncarnate said:

But I'm saying that the dark side in the system is weaker, that is obvious. Furthermore the light side is actually quicker, because of the probability of getting two light side force points per force dice being higher than when trying to get two dark side force points per force dice. It's easier to get one dark side force point per force dice than light thus it's easier, but not quicker. The light side on the force dice reflects it's quicker than the dark side.

12 hours ago, AnomalousAuthor said:

Nah, I’m definitely saying that the dark side is weaker. lol. The dark side is as misleading as it is seductive. It’s still very dangerous and shouldn’t be underestimated, but it gives a false impression of superior power through its accessibility and showiness. The light side is more difficult to master and, in the long run, more powerful, but it’s not nearly as showy.

As @AnomalousAuthor said, the Dark Side is indeed weaker. This is implicit in the movies as to what Yoda told Luke when the latter asked him about if it was stronger than the light. The answer was that it was quicker, easier, and more seductive, not stronger. The Light is ultimately stronger because you put more effort into it, more thought , more consideration , more care . It’s not slipshod, messy, or rushed for quick gain. That ultimately makes it stronger. This is reflected in the Force dice.

14 hours ago, HappyDaze said:

It's not weaker because you can do all sorts of messy stuff and be dark. To stay light you need to be good, and that itself is going to seem weak to a pragmatic force user. The quicker pay comes not from force dice, but from the ultimate path you take. The light side guy has to weave around Conflict or else loose their path. The dark side guy can take all sorts of shortcuts through Conflict.

The system reflects the dark side as weaker in comparison to the light side of comparable strength, which isn't supported by the lore. In fact, the lore supports it being easier, quicker and more seductive, but not in being weaker to the contrary it supports it seems to be more powerful and thus more tempting to use. It may be that the light side force user has to be more careful, but thats less of problem when the force rating is higher. Game mechanically, the dark side force users are weaker compared to light side force users of comparable strength, the force dice reflects this, which is actually quite concerning.

1 hour ago, Tramp Graphics said:

As @AnomalousAuthor said, the Dark Side is indeed weaker. This is implicit in the movies as to what Yoda told Luke when the latter asked him about if it was stronger than the light. The answer was that it was quicker, easier, and more seductive, not stronger. The Light is ultimately stronger because you put more effort into it, more thought , more consideration , more care . It’s not slipshod, messy, or rushed for quick gain. That ultimately makes it stronger. This is reflected in the Force dice.

But thats the thing, Yoda does not say that the dark side is weaker by saying it's not stronger than the light side, it's an assumption that the light side is stronger.
Furthermore, had Yoda said the dark side was stronger, it's very likely Luke would seek to use it for it's power, Yoda did not want that to happen, the choice of words was with a lot of thought behind.
Both force sides are equally strong in comparison to each other, but both have their strengths and weaknesses, you could say they have different qualities and drawbacks. It's a great misconception that the light side is stronger than the dark side. Yes, the dark side is easier, quicker and more seductive, but that doesn't mean it's weaker in terms of force strength. In fact, maybe you should be considering just exactly how those words relate to emotions and the use of the force, in regards to the force dice. It's easier, because it's easy to give in to temptation, especially if there are stronger and darker emotions at play, like fear or hatred. This relates to making use of the dark side because it's a quick way to more power, which means more points per force dice side, rather than having more available but fewer per force dice side. It's more tempting to take which ever force dice side with the most amount of points on it, which is the same for both side, not just the dark side. And as it's reflected now, it would be more tempting for dark side force user to take the double light side points when they turn up, than it would for the light side to take the dark side double points when they turn up! Both are equally strong, but the dark siders seem more powerful because they're able generate more force through them because they're using stronger but darker emotions to power their use of the force, however thats not sustainable and comes at a great cost. Dark side force users essentially supercharging themselves to get more but this power isn't sustainable and it corrupts the user of it, but not in the way that conflict in the system does it, it would corrupt the body, mind and soul. There is also a lot of lore that supports that you can do things with the dark side of the force, which you cannot do with the light side of the force. But despite of this, from a game mechanical and balance stand point, both need to be equally strong and equally viable, because it is a game it's necessary. I think this system has some of these things a bit backwards, like for instance you gain a higher wound threshold but a reduced strain threshold, which doesn't make sense, as using the dark side corrupts and shortens the lifespan as the body slow decays from using the dark side of the force. So if anything, it's should be the opposite, their WT should decrease as their morality drops, and for light side they should have higher WT as their morality increases rather than the opposite.

In relation to the force dice, let me put it this way, the easier and quicker part, specifically relates to two things. The easier part relates to how accessible the points are, and the quicker part relates to how many sides that has double points on them. As it stands, the dark side is more accessible, but the light side is quicker because it has more sides with double points, quicker rise in power.

Yes the lore does support the idea that while quicker and easier, the Dark Side is, ultimately, weaker than the Light. This is implied within the movies themselves. It’s empty promises of power, but it doesn’t deliver on them. This is not a misconception. It was a deliberate choice by GL, one he has gone on record on a number of separate occasions to state. The Light Side is indeed stronger than the Dark. The Dark is simply quicker and easier to use, at least until it has you fully in its grasp.

5 minutes ago, Tramp Graphics said:

Yes the lore does support the idea that while quicker and easier, the Dark Side is, ultimately, weaker than the Light. This is implied within the movies themselves. It’s empty promises of power, but it doesn’t deliver on them. This is not a misconception. It was a deliberate choice by GL, one he has gone on record on a number of separate occasions to state. The Light Side is indeed stronger than the Dark. The Dark is simply quicker and easier to use, at least until it has you fully in its grasp.

No, the lore doesn't support that the dark side is weaker. The dark side would seem stronger and powerful but not normally sustainable, it corrupts the users, body, mind and soul, the power being let through the dark side user the more rapidly the user ages. Empty promises? Promises made other dark sides users, has ZERO to do with the dark side it self. The dark side in this system, isn't quicker to use, but certainly more accessible and thus more easy to use.

Please do elaborate on why you think that the dark side is ultimately weaker, or that the light side is ultimately stronger than the dark side, because you haven't presented anything that actually supports that claim. That the dark side is weaker than the light side is a misconception, it's never stated that it's weaker, just that it's not stronger, which is a very, very big difference. Furthermore, this is what Yoda believes, not actual evidence that it's not stronger, nor is it evidence that the dark side is weaker or the light side being stronger. So please do prove at Yoda states that the light side is stronger than the dark side or that the dark side is weaker than the light side, because to my knowledge, not ever does Yoda do that.

In this system, it's not quicker to use, because of the light side having more double dots available than the dark side does, which inherently makes the dark side weaker, which isn't supported by the lore. The reason the light side in this sytem is quicker, is due to the probality being that much higher than the dark side to get double points per force dice, meaning there is a higher chance to access light side force points - which makes the light side more tempting to use. Let me ask you, would you rather take the dark side force point, or would you rather take the double light side force points? So yes it's more likely for the one point dark side points to show up, but the double light side force point is more likely to show than the double dark side force point, which makes the light side more tempting, because the force point yield is the double. See? It's backwards.

So, having read through your idea and the feedback, I'd like to summarize in brief: You asked for feedback and pretty much everyone is telling you they think your grey design is a bad idea. They've explained their opinions and reasons why. They also disagree with you, broadly speaking, on your interpretation of the Force. No one seems to agree with you thus far. Maybe take that for what it is, rather than digging in your heels. And please don't start a war of pedantry with TrampGraphics. You won't win and we will all lose.

21 minutes ago, InfinityIncarnate said:

No, the lore doesn't support that the dark side is weaker. The dark side would seem stronger and powerful but not normally sustainable, it corrupts the users, body, mind and soul, the power being let through the dark side user the more rapidly the user ages. Empty promises? Promises made other dark sides users, has ZERO to do with the dark side it self. The dark side in this system, isn't quicker to use, but certainly more accessible and thus more easy to use. 

Please do elaborate on why you think that the dark side is ultimately weaker, or that the light side is ultimately stronger than the dark side, because you haven't presented anything that actually supports that claim. That the dark side is weaker than the light side is a misconception, it's never stated that it's weaker, just that it's not stronger, which is a very, very big difference. Furthermore, this is what Yoda believes, not actual evidence that it's not stronger, nor is it evidence that the dark side is weaker or the light side being stronger. So please do prove at Yoda states that the light side is stronger than the dark side or that the dark side is weaker than the light side, because to my knowledge, not ever does Yoda do that.

In this system, it's not quicker to use, because of the light side having more double dots available than the dark side does, which inherently makes the dark side weaker, which isn't supported by the lore. The reason the light side in this sytem is quicker, is due to the probality being that much higher th  an the dark side to get double points per force dice, meaning there is a higher chance to access light side force points - which makes the light side more tempting to use. Let me ask you, would you rather take the dark side force point, or would you rather take the double light side force points? So yes it's more likely for the one point dark side points to show up, but the double light side force point is more likely to show than the double dark side force point, which makes the light side more tempting, because the force point yield is the double. See? It's backwards.

It is quicker and easier, because light side is free.... if you have 1 die and are willing to use the dark side you have a 100% chance at getting at least 1 force point. If you have 2 dice and are willing to use the dark side you are garaunteed at least 2 force points... so on and so forth. It does not matter how many lights you roll as long as you use 1 dark you are using the dark side. The cost of 2 strain and a destiny is pretty small in the grand scheme of most things. Then again I play with like 5 or 6 players so there are always enough destiny points floating around. The ultimate issue you are having here is you are seeing dark side users as ONLY using the dark pips, which they have no reason to do unless they cant take the strain or dont have the destiny points and since MOST dark side users are GM controlled.... why wouldnt you have hte destiny point? and if you dont actually works great story wise as the "dark side abandons and betrays it's user in the last moment." which is great.

TLDR: Dark side users, use both LIght and dark side pips because they care about power, Light side users ONLY use Light side because they care about what is right and wrong. With this perspective you will see dark side is easier and quicker and often times more powerful until Light spends a whole bunch.

It’s George Lucas himself who has outright stated that the Light is ultimately stronger than the Dark. This is also Lucasfilm’s official stance on the matter. It’s not a fan misconception. It’s the official viewpoint of the creators of the lore.

Not only that, but canon actually proves this to be true in the form of Force Ghosts. Only a Light Side Force users, specifically Paragons, can become true Force Ghosts. A Dark Side might be able to bind his spirit to a given object or location, at best, but cannot freely manifest anywhere at any time and directly influence the world around him, as Yoda and Obi Wan obviously do in the movies.

Not only that, but from a purely allegorical perspective, it fits. Light (be it the sun, a fire, a lamp, etc.) banishes darkness. Turn on any light and it illuminates everything within its glow, pushing back the darkness to whatever is beyond its range. Darkness cannot consume light. A light has to be extinguished for darkness to return. Darkness itself cannot push back against the light.

2 hours ago, InfinityIncarnate said:

The system reflects the dark side as weaker in comparison to the light side of comparable strength, which isn't supported by the lore. In fact, the lore supports it being easier, quicker and more seductive, but not in being weaker to the contrary it supports it seems to be more powerful and thus more tempting to use. It may be that the light side force user has to be more careful, but thats less of problem when the force rating is higher. Game mechanically, the dark side force users are weaker compared to light side force users of comparable strength, the force dice reflects this, which is actually quite concerning.

I think you missed the entire part where I said it's about more than just the Force dice. By the time the dice are rolled at all, the light side guy has had to go through a lot of trouble (including the possibility of Conflict) while the dark side guy can take whatever route he wants. This is how the dark side is quicker--by allowing dark side guy to bypass hurdles. If light side guy does that, he might become dark side guy and then everyone is equal when the white dice get rolled.

37 minutes ago, Tramp Graphics said:

It’s George Lucas himself who has outright stated that the Light is ultimately stronger than the Dark. This is also Lucasfilm’s official stance on the matter. It’s not a fan misconception. It’s the official viewpoint of the creators of the lore.

Not only that, but canon actually proves this to be true in the form of Force Ghosts. Only a Light Side Force users, specifically Paragons, can become true Force Ghosts. A Dark Side might be able to bind his spirit to a given object or location, at best, but cannot freely manifest anywhere at any time and directly influence the world around him, as Yoda and Obi Wan obviously do in the movies.

Not only that, but from a purely allegorical perspective, it fits. Light (be it the sun, a fire, a lamp, etc.) banishes darkness. Turn on any light and it illuminates everything within its glow, pushing back the darkness to whatever is beyond its range. Darkness cannot consume light. A light has to be extinguished for darkness to return. Darkness itself cannot push back against the light.

Oh, when and where was this stated? Because oddly enough, in the AOTC commentary, it's stated by George Lucas that the dark side is actually the stronger side. Although GL also states that the force is about balance between the two - which doesn't make sense with one side being stronger than the other, because if one side is stronger than the other, then there is imbalance!

So since there is an official viewpoint, an official statement, please do share it's source!

29 minutes ago, InfinityIncarnate said:

Oh, when and where was this stated? Because oddly enough, in the AOTC commentary, it's stated by George Lucas that the dark side is actually the stronger side. Although GL also states that the force is about balance between the two - which doesn't make sense with one side being stronger than the other, because if one side is stronger than the other, then there is imbalance!

So since there is an official viewpoint, an official statement, please do share it's source!

No, there isn’t. When the Dark Side is ascendant there is imbalance. The natural balance is when the light keeps the dark at bay, pushing it back into the shadows, allowing life to thrive. Life thrives in the light; the darkness only brings death. Too much death ultimately weakens the Force given that the Force is life itself.

1 hour ago, Tramp Graphics said:

No, there isn’t. When the Dark Side is ascendant there is imbalance. The natural balance is when the light keeps the dark at bay, pushing it back into the shadows, allowing life to thrive. Life thrives in the light; the darkness only brings death. Too much death ultimately weakens the Force given that the Force is life itself.

The same is true for when the light side is ascendant, there is imbalance!
The force is about balance (and the struggle), at the core - between the light and dark side - the balance between respective dualities, love and hate, selflessness and selfishness, good and evil, creation and destruction, harmony and discord, benevolence and malevolence, light and dark, etc.
The perfect balance is when neither is ascending or descending.

Speficically what creators are you talking about - Lucasfilm or Disney? As it was GL who's the creator of the original SW - I would say viewpoint is what matters.

I find it a bit odd, that you state it's an official viewpoint of the creators, and that they've stated it, but when I ask for a source, you don't provide it.
George Lucas has stated in behind the scenes commentary material, that the dark side is more powerful, and ultimately the dark side is the stronger side, but following the dark side will be ones undoing.
- The undoing part is that one ages rapidly when using it extensively, proportinately with the amount of the dark side force power being used.

Balance does not mean the two sides are inherently equal. A balanced biosphere isn’t one with an equal number of predators and prey, because then there isn’t enough prey to support the predators. The proper balance is where the prey outnumbers their predators by a large amount, while there are just enough predators to keep prey populations under control so that the region isn’t stripped clean of vegetation.

Balance in the Force is where the Darkness is kept in check and at bay, by the Light so that the destruction it causes is kept to a minimum, just enough to allow for new growth in life. As GL said, the Dark Side is a cancer on the Force, not it’s natural state. The “natural state of the Force is life affirming, not corruption. Balance in the Force is a return and maintenance of the Force’s natural state. Thus, the Light ascendant is the Force in balance.

I know people do not like Episode 8, but watch Rey describe what she is feeling when she is talking about what she feels in the force. Life and death, rebirth, warmth, cold, peace, violence, and between it all balance a force... THE FORCE, and then Luke reaffirms that all of that is the light.... "to say that the jedi dies the light dies is vanity can you feel that". When Rey senses the dark side she says "there is something else" something that exists outside this balance and then luke says "balance powerful light powerful darkness"... fun fact if you really want to talk about the Force Die you should try counting the total number of dark and light pips you will find that interestingly enough while the dark occupies more spots on the die the number of pips on the die that are dark and the number that are light are actually exactly the same with 8 pips light and 8 pips dark there is your balance.