What career skills would you give a hypothetical Jedi Master specialization tree?

I'm thinking it would be best to avoid overlapping too much with Padawan or Knight, as there's a good likelihood anyone taking Master will already possess those two trees. And of course, since Master won't be a starting spec, there's no benefit to having Master's skills overlap with the Jedi Career's skills (Athletics, Cool, Discipline, Lore, Lightsaber, and Piloting [Space]). Knight already has half the skills I was thinking (Leadership, Negotiation), while Padawan has the other two (Vigilance, Education).

maybe Coercion, Charm, Perception, Knowledge Core worlds...

When I first got the book I was thinking a Master tree would be interesting, but now I'm not sure it's necessary or even a good idea. There are so many other good specs from any of the other books, and "Master" is really more of a title. To gain the title I would expect (at my table at least): a base of FR4; some focus on a lightsaber Talent that allows the PC to use a favoured stat (which means diving into one of those trees); a solid basis in diplomacy and focus on at least one Knowledge skill or equivalent (eg: Medicine, Xenology), which means diving into trees that grant healing or knowledge specialization...or alternately a solid "jack of all trades" approach; and finally (most importantly) a narrative reason to be granted the title.

I can see the Padawan and Knight trees working as a reflection of rigorous and channeled training regimen all potential Jedi must go through, but for the Jedi Order, diversity at the master level would have been their strength.

6 minutes ago, whafrog said:

When I first got the book I was thinking a Master tree would be interesting, but now I'm not sure it's necessary or even a good idea. There are so many other good specs from any of the other books, and "Master" is really more of a title. To gain the title I would expect (at my table at least): a base of FR4; some focus on a lightsaber Talent that allows the PC to use a favoured stat (which means diving into one of those trees); a solid basis in diplomacy and focus on at least one Knowledge skill or equivalent (eg: Medicine, Xenology), which means diving into trees that grant healing or knowledge specialization...or alternately a solid "jack of all trades" approach; and finally (most importantly) a narrative reason to be granted the title.

I can see the Padawan and Knight trees working as a reflection of rigorous and channeled training regimen all potential Jedi must go through, but for the Jedi Order, diversity at the master level would have been their strength.

One possibility is maybe a talent that perhaps makes another career a little cheaper.

1 hour ago, whafrog said:

When I first got the book I was thinking a Master tree would be interesting, but now I'm not sure it's necessary or even a good idea. There are so many other good specs from any of the other books, and "Master" is really more of a title. To gain the title I would expect (at my table at least): a base of FR4; some focus on a lightsaber Talent that allows the PC to use a favoured stat (which means diving into one of those trees); a solid basis in diplomacy and focus on at least one Knowledge skill or equivalent (eg: Medicine, Xenology), which means diving into trees that grant healing or knowledge specialization...or alternately a solid "jack of all trades" approach; and finally (most importantly) a narrative reason to be granted the title.

I can see the Padawan and Knight trees working as a reflection of rigorous and channeled training regimen all potential Jedi must go through, but for the Jedi Order, diversity at the master level would have been their strength.

That is easily achieved with speccing from the F&D line after Knight.

7 hours ago, Rimsen said:

That is easily achieved with speccing from the F&D line after Knight.

er...that was my point.

I think that becoming a Jedi Master required you to have successfully trained a Padawan who was able to pass their trials and become a Knight themselves.

I think that's what I remember.

Well, they just posted an article about Collapse of the Republic with Jedi General and Jedi Master specs!

(I was wrong: I thought that they'd just reprint Knight and Padawan.)

Interesting. I have to say, I'm less and less a fan of the talent tree approach. Any of the iconic characters are a mishmash of talents from a variety of specs, it makes less and less sense to have to buy into (and pay the XP cost) to build something equivalent. I'll admit as a rule-hound they are fun to read, but casual gamers can barely keep track of the few significant talents they have, and the trend towards putting PCs into a silo doesn't make for a good experience imho.

But I'll still buy the book... 😁

So the answer is charm, knowledge core worlds, knowlege education and perception for master

5 minutes ago, whafrog said:

Interesting. I have to say, I'm less and less a fan of the talent tree approach. Any of the iconic characters are a mishmash of talents from a variety of specs, it makes less and less sense to have to buy into (and pay the XP cost) to build something equivalent. I'll admit as a rule-hound they are fun to read, but casual gamers can barely keep track of the few significant talents they have, and the trend towards putting PCs into a silo doesn't make for a good experience imho.

But I'll still buy the book... 😁

Should be fewer in number, but more significant in effect (both mechanically and in narrative implications).

Im thinking secrets of the jedi will be in the master tree.

3 hours ago, Stan Fresh said:

Should be fewer in number, but more significant in effect (both mechanically and in narrative implications).

Agreed. I'm really digging the flexible magic rules in Genesys, and I'm thinking of making a kind of "simplified" version of the game for my more casual players. Talents either modify the dice pools or some other on-sheet stat, like Grit, Soak, Defense, Crit resistance, etc. A few talents would remain like allowing someone to switch Lightsaber skill from Brawn to Agility (also reflected on the stat sheet), but most remaining talents would be rolled into their skills as options to be triggered via extra difficulty or advantages, etc. Eg: Scathing Tirade (plus Improved and Supreme) would be available at Coercion skill rank 3, 4, and 5 respectively; things like Side Step and Dodge could be available through Coordination; etc. Then anything else you might want to do follows the magic rules, where if you want effects additional to a skill would require some kind of increase or upgrade of difficulty. All the rest of those one-shot flavour talents would be discarded...I mean, why can only Archeologists "Pin"? It's just dumb...it should just be something anyone can do with Brawl at a high enough skill.

What I like about this is two things: first, it avoids causing issues with players who keep "forgetting" what Talents they have. Second, it rewards player inventiveness based on the situation at hand...you just weigh the extra difficulty based on what they want to do and let them proceed...you don't have to remember whether what they want is covered by a specific talent, and then add some additional cost because they don't have it... Easier for the GM and players in the long run I think.

It's like you're gazing into my soul.

I think it's important to keep in mind that the setting books seem to be written as a semi-stand alone rules addition. I don't think specs like Jedi Master are supposed to be incorporated into the Rebellion Era books but are there to allow players to jump right into those types of characters that would normally have to be built with several specializations.

9 minutes ago, FuriousGreg said:

I think it's important to keep in mind that the setting books seem to be written as a semi-stand alone rules addition. I don't think specs like Jedi Master are supposed to be incorporated into the Rebellion Era books but are there to allow players to jump right into those types of characters that would normally have to be built with several specializations.

How so? You can't take Master as your first spec.

15 minutes ago, Stan Fresh said:

How so? You can't take Master as your first spec.

You cant even take it as your second spec. in most cases.

20 minutes ago, Stan Fresh said:

How so? You can't take Master as your first spec.

Well, because it seems to me to be era specific. The CRB's are Rebellion Era and the specializations available are designed in such a way to build character that fit in that era. So unlike the Collapse of the Republic Era there is no Jedi Temple anymore so those teaching methods don't really exist. Mechanically there isn't an issue, that's why the Era books don't reinvent the wheel, all the careers and specs work they just add in a few to fit the new setting. At least that's how I see it.

Ah, I thought you meant Master in itself would be enough to portray a Jedi Master. Had me scratching my head there for a bit.

4 hours ago, FuriousGreg said:

Well, because it seems to me to be era specific. The CRB's are Rebellion Era and the specializations available are designed in such a way to build character that fit in that era. So unlike the Collapse of the Republic Era there is no Jedi Temple anymore so those teaching methods don't really exist. Mechanically there isn't an issue, that's why the Era books don't reinvent the wheel, all the careers and specs work they just add in a few to fit the new setting. At least that's how I see it.

That does not mean your character didnt get trained at the temple.

Case in point Obi-wan

Or trained by an instructor from the temple. Case in point Yoda training Luke.

You don't need to be formally trained by a Jedi or even possess access to genuine Jedi materials to emulate the path of a Jedi. Career names are just fluff, and the Jedi career and specializations could just as easily represent a Sith or a self-trained savant.

24 minutes ago, HappyDaze said:

You don't need to be formally trained by a Jedi or even possess access to genuine Jedi materials to emulate the path of a Jedi. Career names are just fluff, and the Jedi career and specializations could just as easily represent a Sith or a self-trained savant.

I agree.

6 hours ago, HappyDaze said:

You don't need to be formally trained by a Jedi or even possess access to genuine Jedi materials to emulate the path of a Jedi. Career names are just fluff, and the Jedi career and specializations could just as easily represent a Sith or a self-trained savant.

6 hours ago, Daeglan said:

I agree.

If only my GM saw things this way. He's very literal when it comes to his star wars and the name of anything in the book.

1 hour ago, Ahrimon said:

If only my GM saw things this way. He's very literal when it comes to his star wars and the name of anything in the book.

Ask him what Han Solo tells officials what his job is. Han wouldn't say smuggler he'd say trader. There's no trader career...