I have 4 honor, and no cards left in conflict deck.

If I play Prayers to Ebisu, do I gain the 4 honor before losing 5 honor for the reshuffle?

17 minutes ago, Bayushi Shunsuke said:

I have 4 honor, and no cards left in conflict deck.

If I play Prayers to Ebisu, do I gain the 4 honor before losing 5 honor for the reshuffle?

Unless they are mutually exclusive, effects resolve simultaneously. Therefore, you would need to reshuffle your deck and lose 5 honor before resolving the effect of Prayers to Ebisu (to draw 1 card) and would lose the game.

[Tyler Parrott, Feb 13 2019]

If I have 10 honor, 0 cards in deck and play Prayers to Ebisu, do I finish on 5 or 9 honor?

Just now, Bayushi Shunsuke said:

If I have 10 honor, 0 cards in deck and play Prayers to Ebisu, do I finish on 5 or 9 honor?

You will finish on 9 honor: Attempt to draw, realize you need to reshuffle, lose 5 honor and reshuffle (down to 5), resolve “gain 4 and draw 1 card” simultaneously (the effect checks your honor total when resolving).

[Tyler Parrott, Feb 15 2019]

I do NOT like this at all. There's a clear order to the card's overall effect:

• Each player with 19 or more honor loses 4 honor.

• Each player with 6 or fewer honor gains 4 honor.

• Draw 1 card.

So, in the case where you have 4 (or fewer) honor and an empty deck, I would argue vehemently that you would gain the honor before having to draw the card, forcing the reshuffle and the 5 honor loss.

PS - How can he say things happen simultaneously, then prescribe an order of things that is inconsistent with the card's wording?

I think the logic, Twinstarbmc, is that both effects happen at the same time, and so BEFORE you can do either of them, you must FIRST reshuffle your deck (and lose 5 honor), almost like a state-based interrupt. It stops and says, "Hang on, we can't do this yet. I need to shuffle first." Does that, then realizes in the middle of resolving the effect (or *maybe* just prior to resolving the effect) that a player has lost the game, and does that first.

The two actions are simultaneous, but necessitate a preceding action that is not simultaneous.

23 minutes ago, AradonTemplar said:

I think the logic, Twinstarbmc, is that both effects happen at the same time, and so BEFORE you can do either of them, you must FIRST reshuffle your deck (and lose 5 honor), almost like a state-based interrupt. It stops and says, "Hang on, we can't do this yet. I need to shuffle first." Does that, then realizes in the middle of resolving the effect (or *maybe* just prior to resolving the effect) that a player has lost the game, and does that first.

The two actions are simultaneous, but necessitate a preceding action that is not simultaneous.

Gotcha. Still hate it, but at least I understand, heh.