46 minutes ago, FatherTurin said:

afterburners (a boost after a k-turn to set up Anakin’s stress removal? Which you can do with Fine Tuned Controls already?

Nuh uh. Stress is part of fully executing a red manoeuvre and shuts the FTC action down before it triggers.

5 hours ago, Cuz05 said:

Nuh uh. Stress is part of fully executing a red manoeuvre and shuts the FTC action down before it triggers.

Ah. My bad.

Sense can be very useful on any force user that has 3 force and can either allow other blocker ships to get into the right position to block or use dial change shenangians to get any part of the list into a blocking position. @Starslinger72 has been putting it into good use on Vader for Academy blockers and I've seen a few others start using it on Mace Windu in a triple 7B Jedi Starfighter squad with Saesee and Luminara that I've tried for myself recently. It's quite effective to say the least.

I never use anything but hate, savning the points and just having those soft build in focus is just to good on its own. But then again, its only a handfull of epts I use to now.

Some answers here made my change my opinion on Sense (maybe drop to 5) and I totally agree that SNR is very tricky to balance.

HP Windu is interesting too. He has been killed before shooting more than once and generally has Force to spend.

The comparison between Brilliant Evasion and Heroic is interesting. Both are situational and can be very powerful in with some good (bad?) luck. And indeed if a pilot that adds eyeballs to defense dice appears it would be incredibly valuable.

Sense on Mace is excellent. Switches between arc dodging ace and blocker between games - loads of fun.

Sense is good, on the right craft. Used it well on Saeese myself. Can see the case for Mace. It’s hard to leverage, you really need the right squad composition for it, but it can be quite potent.

As I've said in other threads, the problem with the force upgrades is they essentially have an additional cost compared to other upgrades like EPTs. This would be fine, if it was factored into their points cost, which it's not (The 1.0 comparison would be the Expose EPT).

Most of them require the spending of a force token, so you're just paying for an additional way to use your force tokens. The problem is, the force token already has a very powerful effect. Supernatural reflexes is really the only force upgrade that stands out as having a powerful enough effect to justify spending the force token consistently, and you have to pay through the nose for it. Instinctive Aim, Brilliant Evasion, and Predictive Shot would all be OK if they were 1pt, but currently they're all way too expensive for an upgrade you'll rarely use. Sense and Heightened Perception are decent in the right build, but they're both still slightly overcosted.

There's a reason Hate is the best force upgrade. It's cheap and it just gives you something for no additional cost, plus it shores up a weakness. Plenty of times I've seen Hate keep Kylo alive on 1-2hp while he's being focus-fired down by multiple ships.

My Duchess had a kill shot on Ventress at range 1, but she used Heightened Perception to kill Duchess first. After that, I can never look at Heightened Perception as a bad card. Situational? Sure, but it definitely paid for itself in that situation.

On 5/8/2019 at 12:04 AM, DerRitter said:

Instinctive Aim (2 pts) : just take a Lock and there are no low In force pilots that can carry good ordinance (aka torpedos)

I'm probably the only person who uses Instinctive Aim with any regularity, have been since 2.0 hit

I even had it in my Nordic nationals in October, and in a Hyperspace Trial list this weekend.

I use it only on my twin torpedo Luke/Wedge setup.

It gives I5 Luke some extra options vs stuff like Guri and other 5s with a bid.

Lock + Force is oc better, but tossing 4 red and denying the range bonus for 1 force ain't bad. Especially since the X-wing can do this with foils closed, so can focus-boost even.

I've written a litt about it on my blog.

https://armadaihaveyounow.blogspot.com/search/label/X-wing 2.0

Basically I always get SOME love from this 2 point upgrade, but I always feel like 2 pts of bid might have been as good, if not better.

I cannot think of any other squad where I'd even consider taking it. That's too niche. It's not a good card overall.

On 5/8/2019 at 12:04 AM, DerRitter said:

Sense (6 pts) : This is designed to help lower Initiative pilots, unfortunately, the only low In force pilots only have one force and often require it to use their own abilities (like fine-tuned controls on the Jedi Knights). High In force pilots are already pretty expensive to play support and need their force to earn his points back. Still, this upgrade does sometimes see table.

Sense I suppose CAN be useful on pilots like Mace, who has good force + extra regen, but it's really only Saesee, combined with a high PS pilot that can really benefit from the dial change. Supernatural Ani anyone?

I still have not tried it, but Mace and Sense seem to be a great match!

He has 3 force, plus improved regeneration, plus is i4. This combination should be rather amazing. I would love to add r4 to get better knife fighting and make sure you have more options to stay close, but I have not found a list I like where all that fits.

2 hours ago, GreenDragoon said:

I still have not tried it, but Mace and Sense seem to be a great match!

He has 3 force, plus improved regeneration, plus is i4. This combination should be rather amazing. I would love to add r4 to get better knife fighting and make sure you have more options to stay close, but I have not found a list I like where all that fits.

I played against that triple 4 list on vassal the other day, and it was legit good. I managed a win, but it was looking dicey for a bit.

72 Mace w/ Sense, R2, 7B.
64 Luminara w/ R2, 7B.
64 Saesee w/ R2, 7B.

They're all PS4, so between Sense, Fine-tuned Controls and Saesee, you can block/dodge really effectively.

5 hours ago, CRCL said:

As I've said in other threads, the problem with the force upgrades is they essentially have an additional cost compared to other upgrades like EPTs. This would be fine, if it was factored into their points cost, which it's not (The 1.0 comparison would be the Expose EPT).

This.

each pilot has a limited number of force tokens and there's usually competition for those tokens between force upgrade, pilot ability, FTC (on jedi) and dice mods. plus, youre only getting back 1 of those tokens each turn (hate and mace being the exceptions.)

combinations like sense and Saesee are great, but to make the most of it, youre probably using at least both of Saesee's tokens and that's more than likely going to get Saesee killed.

we definitely need a light side version of hate, but its going to be hard to balance it out when the Jedi pilots are pretty decent as is.

*One with the force*

At the end of the round, you may remove one of your green or blue tokens to regenerate one force.

Something like that?

6 hours ago, GreenDragoon said:

I still have not tried it, but Mace and Sense seem to be a great match!

He has 3 force, plus improved regeneration, plus is i4. This combination should be rather amazing. I would love to add r4 to get better knife fighting and make sure you have more options to stay close, but I have not found a list I like where all that fits.

I’ve been flying a lot of Windu here lately. Need to try and fit Sense on him somehow. I have always had issues of blowing through force tokens with the i5’s and i’6 Ani due to FTC. But with Mace I often don’t use it since he’s not in as good of a spot to know how to reposition.

4 hours ago, Rangor said:

*One with the force*

At the end of the round, you may remove one of your green or blue tokens to regenerate one force.

Something like that?

that would be too good with Obi-wan.

1 hour ago, DerRitter said:

that would be too good with Obi-wan.

I think this suggests my trouble with force powers and force requiring abilities and not being able to put EPTs on Force-using pilots and the competion for the force resource that you're paying for a couple times over.

Any one thing might be fair and properly costed in and of itself and for the majority of cases. But one wrong combination puts the train off the rails. The crazy cost adjustment of SNR being my prime evidence for this. Can't be allowed on some pilots except at enormous handicap via cost.

I agree on the idea of sometimes just wanting an elite pilot talent on one of these force pilots.

I've also found my force pilots the most swingy from game to game. All-star to waste of points to all-star. The Force pilots and powers are teetering on the raggedy edge of not worth the points and game-breaking.

I don't think they've got it wrong but I'm also unwilling to say they've gotten it right.

oh right, battle meditation

passive sensors + battle meditation = **** gon' die

On 5/8/2019 at 8:02 AM, Cuz05 said:

Nuh uh. Stress is part of fully executing a red manoeuvre and shuts the FTC action down before it triggers.

Wait so I can’t sloop with Anakin, get stress, get a target in arc, clear stress, then FTC?

2 hours ago, XPav said:

Wait so I can’t sloop with Anakin, get stress, get a target in arc, clear stress, then FTC?

You can. What you can't do, is perform the FTC action while stressed.

10 hours ago, ficklegreendice said:

oh right, battle meditation

passive sensors + battle meditation = **** gon' die

Might be awkward to actually pull off. Battle Meditation will have to be used first. Passive Sensors prevents the ship from being Coordinated after it's been used, and it can only be used as the normal action. So you'll need a really low-init Jedi to coordinate, or a high-init Passive Sensors ship. A generic Init 2 N-1 won't really work, since the lowest Battle Meditation ship yet printed is Init 3.

45 minutes ago, theBitterFig said:

Might be awkward to actually pull off. Battle Meditation will have to be used first. Passive Sensors prevents the ship from being Coordinated after it's been used, and it can only be used as the normal action. So you'll need a really low-init Jedi to coordinate, or a high-init Passive Sensors ship. A generic Init 2 N-1 won't really work, since the lowest Battle Meditation ship yet printed is Init 3.

ahsoka is I 3, just need I 3 generics (like shadow squad veteran)

4 minutes ago, ficklegreendice said:

ahsoka is I 3, just need I 3 generics (like shadow squad veteran)

The only known Republic ship with a sensor slot is the N-1 and the only pilot you'll be able to use battle meditation to coordinate is the I2 Bravo Squad. As theBitterFig noted, passive sensors and battle meditation is a combo that just isn't going to work at this time.

25 minutes ago, ficklegreendice said:

ahsoka is I 3, just need I 3 generics (like shadow squad veteran)

If Y-Wings have Sensor slots (doesn't look like it in the spread). https://www.fantasyflightgames.com/en/news/2019/4/13/the-fate-of-the-galaxy/

I mean, I think you're right that this is something we ought to be aware of, and something I hope FFG is cautious about. But it might be incredibly awkward to get onto the table.

However, something like a 104th with Palp/Sidious doing his coordinate to one ship could be rather scary. Seems like it'd be easy to have Focus & Reposition & Passive Sensors. Combine with Baby Anakin in an N-1 with Instinctive Aim? Will he even have a Force Talent slot, specifically to avoid Instinctive Aim?