So, my community has taken up the IACP for the next event and I wanted to test the Imperial trooper change. I will use this thread for it, for all to follow and discuss.

My current list, looks like this:

Deployments:

1. Kayn Somos [6]
2. Stormtrooper [Elite] [7]
3. Jet Trooper [Elite] [7]
4. Riot Trooper [Regular] [5]
5. Thrawn [6]
6. Death Trooper [Elite] [4]
7. Officer [Regular] [2]
8. Zillo Technique [1]
9. Advanced Com Systems [1]
10. Extra Armor [1]

Commands:

1. Rally the Troops [3]
2. Grenadier [3]
3. Reinforcements [2]
4. Reinforcements [2]
5. Call the Vanguard [2]
6. Concentrated Fire [1]
7. Strength in Numbers [1]
8. Change of Plans [1]
9. Celebration [0]
10. Element of Surprise [0]
11. Take Initiative [0]
12. Urgency [0]
13. Set for Stun [0]
14. Advance Warning [0]
15. Positioning Advantage [0]

It may not be the very best trooper list, but I think it is the "kind" of trooper list the IACP would want to aim for: A list with a lot of stormtroopers who are so very iconic for starwars. I wanted to go for this trooper feeling, by also using a lot of the trooper command cards. Ideally I'd want an Emperor in there as well, but that means sacking Thrawn and and the officer. After my last event playing 6-point Leaders (with Jabba and Hondo in Imperial) I was extremely happy with the Death Trooper shenanigans I could pull off, so I wanted to keep that one in there.

I will test this list with something specific in mind, namely: In how many situations did it matter that the stormtroopers haven't been boosted, but only reduced in cost (and how often does the figure cost hurt, as I give up a lot more points than I actually pay for the squad). Hopefully I'll be able to get some test games in, before the tourney which is held on the 27th of may in order to give more varied feedback.

If you have Vassal, the IACP changes are part of the Imperial Assault Skirmish v11.42 module. Zion's Finest slack is probably the quickest way to find a Vassal game. Instructions on how to join the ZF slack and find games other ways can be found here: http://ia-continuityproject.com/how-to-participate/

Sorry. I don't play on vassal.

Couple suggestions:

-Sentry droids love Kayn Somos. Terro does as well. Not sure how exactly to fit them in to this list, but something to keep in mind for future trooper lists.

-I'd consider bringing a second death trooper, even two regular ones instead of the elite and the officer (or switching out then officer, Zillow and EA for two elites) This opens up some really fun options with strength in numbers and squad swarm.

Terro is definitely something to consider as well. Especially his CC would go well in the squad. I deliberately decided against going with squad swarm, as I wanted to test the mixed troopers.

20 hours ago, aermet69 said:

Terro is definitely something to consider as well. Especially his CC would go well in the squad. I deliberately decided against going with squad swarm, as I wanted to test the mixed troopers.

Terro also makes a great option for call the vanguard.

You'd only want to bring squad swarm if you also bring two death troopers to get that sweet 4 activation swing. If you position it right, you can pull off 6 attacks in a row (although you'll burn through your deployments in the process)

Okay. So I got to test the list today against: Vader, Emperor, Inquisitor, rRiots, BT1 and a rOfficer on the Gangster map.

These guys straight up suck. I gave two out of the three a Block token from the beginning to have a little defense boost. So at 7½ point, they came out the same defensively as rRiots. However, I still gave up 9 points to my opponent for killing these, with no real effort. Several times, it came up that they just barely died to the blast of Emperors lightning, a Force Choke etc. They managed to kill a ganster, using all three of them. Not impressive. Their max damage is simply too low at 5 (6 on very rare occasions), they die too easily and are worth too many points. Replacing them with Terro, another set of eJets or eRiots would strictly be better. I did not manage to draw my Reinforcements, but even if I did, I'm not sure I'd feel it was worth it to reinforce these guys at all.

To be honest, I think you are pushing the eStormies in the wrong direction. I think you should push to make them worth 9 points (perhaps 8, that would make them similar to eJets or eQuays in giving up 1 more point than paid) instead. Empire has a lot of good in the 7 point slot, so before I'll ever consider these again, I'll take riots, jets and terro and since that is already 35 points, I'll never have enough points to field eStorms as is. In my opinion they need at least +1HP (probably +2 to put them in line with eRiots and eJets) and something like Pierce 1 for free.

It won't do a lot to their damage output, but it'll make them a tad more sturdy allowing them to survive to use the focused attack and make them something I'd actually want to reinforce. Though, after today, I'm not convinced that is enough to make them viable. Maybe play more on the few focused shots you get, giving them one more surge ability for some damage or something?

The last thing I found, was giving them the Pin Down trait from CT-1701. Thematically that would make sense.

On the other hand, Kayn Somos was so much fun to play with. The possible moves you could make with him and an eDT was great. His damage output somewhat sucks compared to Thrawn or Hondo or other good 6 pointers, but his support value was great.

So far, it seems like Sentry droids are the best non-unique trooper to build an imperial list around

After writing the report, and thinking a bit more on it, perhaps an ability like: Shock Troops: When deployed (or placed*) gain 1 [surge] Power Token.

*To combo with reinforcements. Prolly need better wording.

This would give them a slightly better attack on the first round (being able to use it for +3 range for instance).

I had a thought along these lines:

"All Troopers except Rangers gain the following ability:

Fodder: When you are defeated, if there are two other figures in your group still in play, your opponent gains no victory points."

Again, wording probably needs cleaning up, but it means that 7/3 eStormtroopers now gives a default of only 6 VPs to the opponent. If you can play Reinforcements while you still have two figures in play, then he gets zero points for the next kill, again. And it would theoretically make (for example) rStormtroopers a reasonable option in some cases, over rRiots.

My only concern: it still might not be enough to bring 3-figure trooper groups up to par.

13 hours ago, IndyPendant said:

Again, wording probably needs cleaning up, but it means that 7/3 eStormtroopers now gives a default of only 6 VPs to the opponent. If you can play Reinforcements while you still have two figures in play, then he gets zero points for the next kill, again. And it would theoretically make (for example) rStormtroopers a reasonable option in some cases, over rRiots.

I feel that a mechanic where more than 1 Trooper figure killed will result in 0 VPs gained is a extremely negative play experience for the opponent. But I think we agree on the crux of the problem with 3-figure Troopers - losing the full figure cost of each Trooper is difficult for a Trooper player to overcome.

On the latest CNE Skirmish fixes document, I have elite Stormtroopers with deployment cost of 7, figure cost of 3 and they gain the following ability:

Quote

Expendable: When the first figure in this deployment group is defeated, that figure is worth 1 VP.

Losing 3 figures from this version of Elite Stormies Deployment card results in 7 VPs gained by your opponent; with Reinforcements, losing 4 figures results in 10 VP (instead of 12).

There is some concern from folks I've talked to that this version of Expendable enables Trooper swarms too strongly. For example, a list with 2x Elite Stormtrooper and 4x Regular Riot Trooper results in 14 Trooper Figures - each taking roughly more than 1 attack to defeat - that net a total of 30 VPs for the opponent vs the 34 deployment points it costs you to put it in your list. And this Trooper Swarm list is designed to gain you and deny your opponent Objective VPs for as long as possible. While I want Trooper Swarm play to return, I understand the concern that this kind of VP manipulation list isn't fun to play against.

On 5/14/2019 at 5:03 PM, aermet69 said:

To be honest, I think you are pushing the eStormies in the wrong direction. I think you should push to make them worth 9 points (perhaps 8, that would make them similar to eJets or eQuays in giving up 1 more point than paid) instead. Empire has a lot of good in the 7 point slot, so before I'll ever consider these again, I'll take riots, jets and terro and since that is already 35 points, I'll never have enough points to field eStorms as is. In my opinion they need at least +1HP (probably +2 to put them in line with eRiots and eJets) and something like Pierce 1 for free.

Improving Stormtroopers so they are worth 9/3 is something that I've worked with in the past. One of the drawbacks to this design goal is that keeping Elite Stormtroopers at 9 likely reduces the activation count potential of your list -- with 2x Elite Stormtrooper, Zillo & Rule By Fear, over half of your 40 deployment points are gone.

3-Figure deployments are also hard to tweak because they have 3 figures on the board. If you increase their Health to be near that of Jet Troopers, opponents may be forced to commit 3 attacks into removing just 1 figure... which then gets replaced via Reinforcements. If you increase their offense in the wrong way, they would do an unfair amount of damage relative to a similarly-costed unique deployment with just a single figure.

By reducing the cost of Elite Stormtroopers instead, it opens up design space for improving their attacks. There could be a cost-1 attachment that gives each figure a DMG power token (similar to how Extra Armor works). I've also been working on the idea of giving them a damage floor function: "After you resolve an attack, if the attack did not miss and the target did not suffer DMG, the target suffers 1 DMG." With their Squad Training reroll and the floor function, one should reliably get 5 DMG out of a full deployment card of Troopers, which is slighly better compared to for unfocused, unmodified unique figure.

So I took the list with me yesterday, but with Terro instead of eStorms. Thus still testing Kayn Somos some.

It worked pretty well, but I'm sad the troopers were not up to snuff with the rest of their brothers. Kayn Somos was still fun, and did some cool stuff using a longshot to Focus up Terro in one game, as well as ordering a pair of riots to beat down the Inquisitor (though he survived with 1 hp and cost me the game!).

I still think Kayn is cool and fun, but his own attack is quite horrible. He's only as good as the troopers you can ask to attack. Surge for +2 or pierce 2 instead of 1 would up it a little. However, he's generally rolling so few surges that you have to chose between focus a trooper or + damage. What he's got going for him, is the 12 HP compared to say Thrawn who's a little squishy. As is, I'd not be opposed to reducing him 1 more point, however, I haven't tried him with Sentry Droids, or other solid shooters where he could possible be a lot better.

Firing squad really thrives with the sentry droids IMO. That said, making Somos' damage surge 2 instead of 1 also helps.

Would give him some options to be independant as well.

I think as long as the IACP remains anti-swarm, eTroopers (along with a great many other figures) will never be viable. I'm going to make a post about that soon-ish, opening discussion and including my reasoning in some detail.