Hi all

I'm playing the game since the release and 80% of the times i played with Vader with more or less sucess.

My point is... is saber throw really that must have when you build a list with Vader? I mean in this game of covers practically 90% of times i throw the saber the objetive is at full cover due to special rules, barricade, trees, rocks... and doing nothing but a supression. Is this worthing the 10 points?

People are saying that some kind of force power that allows vader to have surge in attack and defense (force guidance) is coming. What about move+reflexes+guidance?

Can you argue me to use lightsaber throw again?

If units have heavy cover 90% of the time, you are playing with way to much cover.

However on to the saber throw. Vader is super expensive and the 10 points gives him a free range 2 attacks when he moves, and he will probably move every turn that he dosen't start engaged. So even if it does little dmg, it's worth the small amount of points when using a expensive model like vader.

Is is a 10 point upgrade. If it would make a decisive difference in every single game, it would be broken. As soon as Vader kills one dude or prevents one action due to suppression with the extra attack, it made its 10 points back.

Against cover, his output is somewhere between a naked coreunit and one between a DLT19 or Z6. That is a lot of bang for the bug. If there is just one shot at a Unit where Impact and Pierce make a big difference like for instance against AT-RTs or Deathtroopers, even one throw could make it worthwhile.

Even the fact that an opponent has to keep his units in cover within 20 Inches of Vader is sometimes an advantage.

Ok i feel your answers consistent but.. in the case something in the near future will help vader to surge to defend and attack (that will rise his survival and his attack to 5-6 expecting damage), i would to decide what of the actual upgrades goes out (reflexes, saber throw and force push).

Reflexes is incredibly good for the durability it provides to vader and the deflect keyword. Force push is so useful to increase the vader charge treat, throw people away am objetive, to not lose activations killing a guy you are engaged with, to disengage that farmer boy.... many many situations that can change the match.

Saber throw on the other hand just kill a guy or two in all the match. I think i would prefer a durable Vader and a practically sure 5-6 hits per attack once i get in close combat than the possibility to kill someone at range 2. Perhaps i am in mistake...

Of course these times i fight against atrt, saber throw really worth it.

Obviously all this topic is around the chance to get some buf via upgrade for Vader i the near future (i remember to ride something like that from sw celebration, i guess force guidance to put a new surge token)

If there comes something new for him then saber throw might be dropped. However a speed 1 mini without a range attack will be easy to avoid.

It works so well with relentless so I can't see a reason not to take it.

I feel nothing will stop saber throw from being stapled to Vader (for me at least) other than maybe a force dash ability that increases his speed

1 hour ago, Jabby said:

I feel nothing will stop saber throw from being stapled to Vader (for me at least) other than maybe a force dash ability that increases his speed

And at that point, being able to move further and still throw might be worth keeping both!

1 hour ago, crx3800 said:

And at that point, being able to move further and still throw might be worth keeping both!

Straight facts.

I’ve never run Vader without saber throw and I don’t ever intend to

I see is like canonic thing haha

Ok so imagine a nice vader buff force upgrade is out. What of the actually upgrades go down?

Personally i ever run Vader with reflexes, saber and push and don't know what of these would throw to the trash if we get a new one designed to help vader (that is what i hear from celebration)

If I can get vader up the table faster, I'd probably drop reflexes. Only because I can get into melee with something sooner and stay that way most of the game with force push.

9 hours ago, naitsirk said:

My point is... is saber throw really that must have when you build a list with Vader? I mean in this game of covers practically 90% of times i throw the saber the objetive is at full cover due to special rules, barricade, trees, rocks... and doing nothing but a supression. Is this worthing the 10 points?

Maybe I'm not understanding something, but how would Vader be giving out suppression without doing any damage? He has Pierce 3...so those should go right through, shouldn't they?

5 minutes ago, rasmussen81 said:

Maybe I'm not understanding something, but how would Vader be giving out suppression without doing any damage? He has Pierce 3...so those should go right through, shouldn't they?

Pierce can't go through cover. Targets in heavy cover are difficult for Vader because he needs to roll 3 hits or a crit to deal any damage with the throw.

Saber throw allows Vader a lot more chances to hit when he normally might not be able (round 1/2). Also allows him to project more threat (Impact3/Pierce3 is no joke).

You don't have to deal damage with the attack, just roll a hit to give out suppression.

4 hours ago, thepopemobile100 said:

Pierce can't go through cover. Targets in heavy cover are difficult for Vader because he needs to roll 3 hits or a crit to deal any damage with the throw.

That's true, it makes it harder to get hits...

3 hours ago, crx3800 said:

You don't have to deal damage with the attack, just roll a hit to give out suppression.

Yes, but if you roll a hit it's going to get through their defensive roll! So if they're getting suppression in this situation, they're taking damage as well.

1 minute ago, rasmussen81 said:

Yes, but if you roll a hit it's going to get through their defensive roll! So if they're getting suppression in this situation, they're taking damage as well

Even if you can't get through the cover with the hits you roll, they'd still take a suppression. Units take suppression as along as a hit was rolled regardless if they ever needed to roll for defense.

Mind blown!!!! 😯

I've always played that they only get suppression if the person has to roll defense. Oops, I'll have to look up that rule now.

Sometimes all you need from the attack is to put a suppression token on the enemy...

10 hours ago, naitsirk said:

I see is like canonic thing haha

Ok so imagine a nice vader buff force upgrade is out. What of the actually upgrades go down?

Personally i ever run Vader with reflexes, saber and push and don't know what of these would throw to the trash if we get a new one designed to help vader (that is what i hear from celebration)

I’ve dropped reflex recently and haven’t missed it. Choke has been awesome, killing special weapons or forcing a box drop is money. Push and saber throw stay for sure.

12 hours ago, crx3800 said:

If I can get vader up the table faster, I'd probably drop reflexes. Only because I can get into melee with something sooner and stay that way most of the game with force push.

Interesting. I always bring reflexes since deflect can be amazing. I’ve killed an at-rt by rolling 6 surges before

5 hours ago, TalkPolite said:

I’ve dropped reflex recently and haven’t missed it. Choke has been awesome, killing special weapons or forcing a box drop is money. Push and saber throw stay for sure.

Wow i can't imagine my Vader without reflexes. It means a 3+ defense with 1/6 returning hit and prevent 1 hit by free... that is a lot of bonuses.

What do you do to increase his durability without spending actions in dodge? Even with that bonus each turn my vader allways end games with 1-2 health left if he end games alive!

IRG help a lot. The problem with Reflexes is that you want to go fairly early in the turn, where as Vader probably wants to go later in the turn

On 5/4/2019 at 5:53 AM, TalkPolite said:

I’ve dropped reflex recently and haven’t missed it. Choke has been awesome, killing special weapons or forcing a box drop is money. Push and saber throw stay for sure.

And what about anger?

Without an aim token Vader is not reliable at all throwing the saber vs cover (light or heavy). And one great threat for Vader is Luke and the Wookies charging towards him. But with 8 wounds he usually survives a charge just to make a not totally destroyer attack. (6/8 without attack surge). BUT. With anger you can chop 2 wookies/attack or hurt Luke badly.

I do not dare to say Anger is better than any of the other force powers for Vader but I play "TriggeredVader" sometimes.

So out of this 4 powers what are your favourites:

Saber throw, Force reflexes, Force push, Anger, Choke

For me saber throw and force push are a must have. And then I have to choose between Anger and Force Reflexes. I do not see many chances for choke in my lists.

What is your opinion about Anger?

Great on Palp - okay on Vader. It’s not terrible but it’s not my first choice

On 5/3/2019 at 4:15 AM, jocke01 said:

If units have heavy cover 90% of the time, you are playing with way to much cover.

Or they are misunderstanding the cover rules. We played it incorrectly a few months where we thought all you needed was to be obscured in order to get cover. It made cover a LOT more easy to get.