I'm curious to know what other Arch-Militants chose to upgrade to mono status.

I went for Groxwhip which I'm really happy with, as not being able to parry it makes all the difference (Flexiblle). It is also tearing and increases my charge range by 3m. What more could you want?

I can imagine the the Kronus expanse being full of bounty hunters with mono-whips.

Indeed mono-whip is broken. One of my players uses it. Stupidly I gave it to him. No one at that point had noticed the strength of a mono-whip. I guess DM's see out of the box quicker than players.

Only set back is its hard have a role-playing reason for a character to specialize in whips. Though if your using a mono-whip your probably more roll-playing.

DM Variyn said:

You never seen Indiana Jones? Whips can be bloody useful!

DM Variyn said:

You specialise in a Class of weapons, the classes are Pistol, Basic, Heavy, Exotic and Melee. Not "whips" or "swords".

I don't see how the mono groxwhip is broken, not when compared to the other starting melee weapons. Surely a powersword is better?

how about specialising in exotic: kroot rifle - melee and ranged weapon in one - can be quite nasty in the right hands

Every power-type weapon does more damage then a mono-whip. If you have a tendancy to attack things that can't or won't parry effectivly, then the superior damage helps greatly.

I agree that it's probibly more powerful then it should be, particularly as it doesn't have the 'unwhieldly' trait, but it's really not -that- much better then a chainsword in the hands of a skilled user. (ie, someone with a good WS).

While I never got to use a whip ingame (though I always wanted to), I think the its main advantage is not really a high damage output, but rather its range. Three metres is enough to strike at (and possibly disarm) anyone who wants to shoot you at point blank range. A distant enemy with a melee weapon also cannot use Multiple Attacks or All Out Attack, as he first has to move the distance towards you. Your friends can safely throw grenades at him without risking hitting you etc.

I don't think it is broken in any way, but for melee chars it gives a number of fun combat (and roleplaying) opportunities that is far more than the ordinary hacking and slashing one grows quickly used to.

I was refering to the starting gear that you get with the Militant, where you can chose any good quality primitive weapon and give it the mono upgrade. So its not really a choice between whip and powersword, more like a choice between whip and regular sword (or great weapon or spear or even warhammer!).

Equally Graspar this is not weapon specialisation (I went for pistols) just starting gear.

I agree its not broken, I just had a very good experiance with it the first time i used it in game. I dealt 46 damage (2x Righteous Fury) acciendtly killing outright an important NPC (despite chosing the lower damage roll with the last attack) and I have been in love with it ever since.

I was refering to the starting gear that you get with the Militant, where you can chose any good quality primitive weapon and give it the mono upgrade. So its not really a choice between whip and powersword, more like a choice between whip and regular sword (or great weapon or spear or even warhammer!).

Equally Graspar this is not weapon specialisation (I went for pistols) just starting gear.

Both of those comments were in response to DM Variyn.

Think what you lads want to think. But I personally see the mono-whip as broken. I'm not going to fan the flames with a intelligent response.

DM Variyn said:

You could always just slap the offending character with penalties to certain social interactions because of the "barbaric hunk of peasant foolishness" hanging from their hip and ruining any decent wardrobe that brushes past it.... Rogue Trader IS ultimately about social and economic warfare, after all! It can be a brutally effective combat weapon, but it is utterly uncouth and lacks in dignity. Of course, should the team be negotiating with muck-dwelling Grox-herders then perhaps it might be worth a modest bonus?

I'm not so sure about that: I can conceive of a few societies where being the whip-hand would be a position of some social status. A slave-based culture, possibly similar to the Draka (S.M. Stirling), for example, or one based on herding, particularly the herding of massive carnosaur-analogues. Hell, it could just be a fashionable holdover from stylised chariot races/warfare, or a ritual weapon used in the local gladiatoral combat/duelling scene.

Anyway, even if the above don't apply (but especially if they do), if the whip's grip is fancy enough, they can probably get away with it.

I can see your point though Variyn, sort of, at least: an unparryable weapon can be pretty overpowering, particularly if it effectively outreaches all other melee options. I'll note that two of the 40kRP GMs I know have houseruled whips in general to be either a) Exotic or b) Unbalanced, if not Unwieldy, based partly on their own experiences with whips and whip-like weapons in other games, partly on how they worked in Inquisitor, and partly because they deliberately went through the books looking for munchkinning exploits. Personally, though, I'm not going to declare it wholly broken unless and until someone comes out with a Shock, Power or Force version ...oh dear lords, I just realised that a Force-Groxwhip would be legal...

If I were equipping an Arch-Militant of my very own, and the GM was allowing gear to be ported over from DH, I'd have to go with an Anoxis-pattern Mono-Boarding Pike, although I'd probably end up insisting that the Mono upgrade applies either to the first hit only (making it d10+3X pen 4, non-primitive), or only to the club left after that first hit, not both; mainly because I can't think of any one method of mono'ing both the explosive charge and the remaining shaft.

Anyway, even if the above don't apply (but especially if they do), if the whip's grip is fancy enough, they can probably get away with it.

And since the arch militant's starting weapon is good quality it'll be somewhat fancy.

Is it the best primitive weapon in the list? Without a doubt in most situations, the only real contender is the great weapon and then only in raw damage potential. But it's not gamebreakingly good when compared even to other starting weapons.

@DM Variyn

Think what you lads want to think. But I personally see the mono-whip as broken. I'm not going to fan the flames with a intelligent response.

I'd be intrigued to read one, because considering how easy a RT can gain access to a powersword, I really wonder what it might be...

@Alasseo

I can see your point though Variyn, sort of, at least: an unparryable weapon can be pretty overpowering, particularly if it effectively outreaches all other melee options.

I think it balances nicely with a power weapon's sundering field.

Well, sort of. Only problem is, because of the way the Power Field rules are written, you can only sunder a weapon if you successfully parry an attack from it with your power weapon; that is, if a weapon without a power field parries a power weapon, it's fine, but if a power weapon parries an unpowered, the unpowered can break.

Since you can't parry flexible weapons, they're immune to power weapon sundering, by the RAW, at least.

@Alasseo

You're right about that - at a combat whip vs. power sword, the whip has an advantage (at least before you look at the actual damage values). However, consider a whip and a power weapon against any other weapon: The whip can't be parried, period. The power weapon can be parried once, then the enemy strikes back with his weapon and the power sword sunders it, thus becoming un-parry-able itself for lack of a remaining enemy weapon - which should reduce enemy damage output somewhat as well.

That's why I consider the two balanced.