1 hour ago, Sir13scott said:Think he is referring to how only a rare few ships have the lock action in the imperial faction
Exactly. Right now there are not many options for a good cheap spotter for him but TC will help with that. A decrease in some of the underused Imperial ships like the Aggressor could also help.
1 hour ago, Micanthropyre said:Generic Phantoms, Juke, Leia, R2D2 crew (ID would be the easier fix either by initiative costing it or removing the illicit slot from the Falcon but infinite regen is bad for the game), Lu'lo and perhaps even Tali .
Juke has already been messed with enough. They need to adjust the problematic platforms
After a few weeks of playing Republic, my impression is that it's mostly well costed, with a couple of exceptions:
Other point drop suggestions:
Points increases:
wonder if afterburners will see a change. its popular with vader but its pretty well priced.
1 hour ago, Hiemfire said:Juke has already been messed with enough. They need to adjust the problematic platforms
It's a passive mod that also favors high initiative ships a lot more than low initiative ones. I'm not debating that a points increase for the generics isn't in order, but it's still not an upgrade that needs to exist.
Named torrents are about 4-5pts over costed. Oddball should not be more than Talli at 35pts. So maybe 34pts for oddball. Tucker is slightly better than a generic, no talent slot, 26pts. Swoop no talent slot i3, 27pts. etc. If torrents get a second missile slot, then price em similar to Tie Bombers with maybe a 1 or 2 pt drop (Bren 36pts so Oddball can be 35 or 36pts). Really dont know how FFG screwed the pooch on this ship.
Jedi seem fine. Maybe Delta is 1pt overcosted. I think helping Jedi with support ships and they will be okay.
VTG back up to 8pts. Double taps are just too powerful.
Leia to 5 or 6pts. Afterburners went from 8 to 6pts and sees lots of play now. Leia will still see play at 5 or 6.
+1pt across the board for phantoms would do wonders.
Wedge +6pts, Thane +4pts (Thane and Kulbee should not cost the same, jeezuz!)
Drea +4pts
Lots of first order needs to drop. Silencers -2pts across the board (4 ps1 Silencers is not gonna do any better than 5 khiraxz, or 4x+friend, etc). Tough but nothing to worry about. Tie S/F gunner -2pts. Named S/F -1pt.
I think a -3pts on Moldy can get the HWKs back out on the field. Palob wont be competeing with aces.
12 minutes ago, wurms said:Named torrents are about 4-5pts over costed. Oddball should not be more than Talli at 35pts. So maybe 34pts for oddball. Tucker is slightly better than a generic, no talent slot, 26pts. Swoop no talent slot i3, 27pts. etc. If torrents get a second missile slot, then price em similar to Tie Bombers with maybe a 1 or 2 pt drop (Bren 36pts so Oddball can be 35 or 36pts). Really dont know how FFG screwed the pooch on this ship.
Jedi seem fine. Maybe Delta is 1pt overcosted. I think helping Jedi with support ships and they will be okay.
VTG back up to 8pts. Double taps are just too powerful.
Leia to 5 or 6pts. Afterburners went from 8 to 6pts and sees lots of play now. Leia will still see play at 5 or 6.
+1pt across the board for phantoms would do wonders.
Wedge +6pts, Thane +4pts (Thane and Kulbee should not cost the same, jeezuz!)
Drea +4pts
Lots of first order needs to drop. Silencers -2pts across the board (4 ps1 Silencers is not gonna do any better than 5 khiraxz, or 4x+friend, etc). Tough but nothing to worry about. Tie S/F gunner -2pts. Named S/F -1pt.
I think a -3pts on Moldy can get the HWKs back out on the field. Palob wont be competeing with aces.
With VTG rebalanced, there would be a lot less of the double-tap Drea lists. And outside of those, Drea doesn't need to change.
44 minutes ago, Micanthropyre said:It's a passive mod that also favors high initiative ships a lot more than low initiative ones. I'm not debating that a points increase for the generics isn't in order, but it's still not an upgrade that needs to exist.
However it's a very soft mod, that (normaly) takes away other offensive mod option from the attacking ship, and it does nothing if the defending ship has focus, which is the metric by which all other actions are counted. You could even argue that a single Juke in a list does nominally nothing as long as the defending ship has an action (so didn't stress or bump). Seen like that, the card is figuratively unplayable at 5 points which it is currently.
But each following instance of juke makes it become better and better. And, really, the moment it really shines is when you have a free evade token. Which is why you don't see anyone other than phantoms, defender, and Sabine play this card at all. I'm a huge fan of the juking phantom, and I personally think that it could go up a point yet again on the phantom chassis, but go back down to 4 or even 3 on any other chassis and it'd be better like this.
imperial players r not going to like this but im expecting sigma squadron ace to lose its talent slot. juke could even come down a point or two if they do this.
5 minutes ago, Da_Brown_Bomber said:imperial players r not going to like this but im expecting sigma squadron ace to lose its talent slot. juke could even come down a point or two if they do this.
Upping Sigmas by a point or two would work and still allow Juke to possibly be reduced in price by a little.
21 minutes ago, DarthSempai said:However it's a very soft mod, that (normaly) takes away other offensive mod option from the attacking ship, and it does nothing if the defending ship has focus, which is the metric by which all other actions are counted. You could even argue that a single Juke in a list does nominally nothing as long as the defending ship has an action (so didn't stress or bump). Seen like that, the card is figuratively unplayable at 5 points which it is currently.
Juke is also nice if the ship that has it is the last to shoot at a focus fired target (as long as the juking ship still has its token). This is actually initiative independent. Just the threat of it can be enough to allow for some damage to get through on previous shots (target holding onto their tokens) in addition to the benefit of what it can do to a tokenless ship.
Edited by Hiemfire14 minutes ago, Hiemfire said:Upping Sigmas by a point or two would work and still allow Juke to possibly be reduced in price by a little.
this might open the door for 3 juke phantoms + X squads. removing the talent slot is the only sure way to remove the threat of multiple juke phantoms.
Rebels:
Leia upto 6 points
U-wings +2 points across the chassis
Moldy Crow down to 15 points
b-wings up 1 point across the chassis
YT-1300 drops illicit
Imperials:
no talent slot on generic phantoms
Deci down 5 points
Gunboat down 2 points
Scum:
Fangs down 2 points
Lancer down 2 points
0-0-0 down to 4 points
Resistance:
RZ-2 A-wings up 2 points, Lulo up 5
YT1300 down 2 points
Heroic 2 points
FO:
no changes?
republic:
All torrents aside from Gold Sq. down 3 points
Delta 7B no longer tied to initiative, set at 15 points
Athersprite pilots i4 or lower down 3 points
All ARCs aside from the 104 down 3 points
CIS:
all vultures down 2 points
Generics:
Torpedos upto 14
Vet Turret Gunner upto 8
Prockets down to 6
Hate upto 5
Brilliant Evasion 1 point
Instinctive aim 1 point
Predictive Shot 2 points
Hot Shot gunner 5 points
thats everything I can think of off the top of my head.
1 hour ago, Da_Brown_Bomber said:this might open the door for 3 juke phantoms + X squads. removing the talent slot is the only sure way to remove the threat of multiple juke phantoms.
What 38-point ship is going to provide enough threat to make up for this? A naked I1 striker?
And if people go the Echo/Whisper/Sigma route, I don't think 3 generic juking phantoms would be that big of a problem. We're talking about a 12-health, 9-attack list here. Nothing scary at all.
6 minutes ago, Wiredin said:Rebels:
Leia upto 6 points
U-wings +2 points across the chassis
Moldy Crow down to 15 points
b-wings up 1 point across the chassis
YT-1300 drops illicit
Imperials:
no talent slot on generic phantoms
Deci down 5 points
Gunboat down 2 points
Scum:
Fangs down 2 points
Lancer down 2 points
0-0-0 down to 4 points
Resistance:
RZ-2 A-wings up 2 points, Lulo up 5
YT1300 down 2 points
Heroic 2 points
FO:
no changes?
republic:
All torrents aside from Gold Sq. down 3 points
Delta 7B no longer tied to initiative, set at 15 points
Athersprite pilots i4 or lower down 3 points
All ARCs aside from the 104 down 3 points
CIS:
all vultures down 2 points
Generics:
Torpedos upto 14
Vet Turret Gunner upto 8
Prockets down to 6
Hate upto 5
Brilliant Evasion 1 point
Instinctive aim 1 point
Predictive Shot 2 points
Hot Shot gunner 5 points
thats everything I can think of off the top of my head.
I'd love to see contraband cybernetics come down a few points
2 hours ago, ClassicalMoser said:
lost it at : FO, no changes.
😂
also at vultures down 2 points. They are already super efficient, but sure let's all drop their points a bunch more. I don't care I play CIS too!
I am sad how lots of people want to kill the yt1300 by removing the illicit. It is cool and thematic. The fathan issue should be dealt with point increase imo on all the combo.
I feel juke is ok, but I understand the problem of quad phantom. I think of a fun and thematic way to nerf if a bit. FAQ it as a ship can be "juked" once per round only.
10 hours ago, Hiemfire said:Upping Sigmas by a point or two would work and still allow Juke to possibly be reduced in price by a little.
Completely agree. As it stands Juke is amazing on the Sigma, perfectly fine on Echo, Whisper and the Defenders, and borderline useless on everything else. Fix the Sigma and make Juke playable on other ships!
7 hours ago, DarthSempai said:also at vultures down 2 points. They are already super efficient, but sure let's all drop their points a bunch more. I don't care I play CIS too!
Vultures are really having a hard time competitively.
5 hours ago, player2422845 said:I am sad how lots of people want to kill the yt1300 by removing the illicit. It is cool and thematic. The fathan issue should be dealt with point increase imo on all the combo.
Sure all the players running Deadman's Switch or Feedback Array on their Han will be really sad. Lore shouldn't trump balance and if YT-1300 didn't have the Illicit slot from the start no one would even come up with it. Also pts increase on the whole combo would just make Han even fatter point fortress.
Before throwing the res awings to the pitch fork, remember that Lulo is a 4 hp 2 agi ship when stressed. The awings pop really fast if you are not extremely carefull. Tali ia only 2 attack dice and her ability is being cheap I5.
Just how many rebel awings do you see in play?
Also, while 5 awings is an effective listn I'm not sure is a dominating meta warping list. Considering that the resistance lacks a lot of variety, mostly because weird costing: a bomber list is always 3-5 points too expensive for having good wingmen. The falcon quite overcosted too, the same happens with the all t70 nos names poe or nien (this last one needs upgrades to shine).
I could gwt behind a point increase in the awings if some other components of the faction when dowb to compensate and expand the options, right now i believe a raise would only narrow the faction even more.
2 hours ago, svelok said:
Vultures are really having a hard time competitively.
Crap! Guess I was wrong.
Strange because I was sure I had seen another math table showing that vulture with ESC where pretty dang efficient. Combinaison of cheapest ship possible + long range 3 dice attack + perma focussed thanks to a lot of shareable calculate. And all the time I played them they seemed to do exactly that. It necessitate, in my experience, at the very least 2 ships attacking one at range 2 or closer or with missile to reliably kill one, and that's before Dooku (crew) effects.
3 hours ago, svelok said:
Vultures are really having a hard time competitively.
thats exactly why I said down 2 points. It may not allow you to fly more, but it allows you to run energy shells or upgrade them to be a bit more competitive.
10 hours ago, DarthSempai said:lost it at : FO, no changes. 😂
also at vultures down 2 points. They are already super efficient, but sure let's all drop their points a bunch more. I don't care I play CIS too!
FO no changes was "?" because everyone flying FO locally seems to think they are fine. Most of those point changes are things I've heard discussions on both locally and at hyperspace tournaments.
To add to the republic arcs, and the issue of higher I:
My base theory is that higher I is a massive advantage that should NOT be paired with the "best" (re: easily accessible, action-indepent modifers that ALSO stack atop normal mods) pilot abilities.
But I also have to say that some ships benefit EVEN MORE from higher I than others.
The ARC definitely isn't the least able to abuse higher I (guess that's be the resistance bomber? C3po coordinate is good, though...) because aux arc and red rolls lead to shenanigans
But, they really aren't paying fair prices for it
Now Norra Wexly is pretty great beyond argument because she pairs high I with easily the best pilot ability of Reb arcs (arguably of all arcs).
But ******* Oddball!? How in the dark side does he even begin to cost the same? As amazing as I 5 is, the Arc chassis is no fang or interceptor and it shouldn't be paying closely equivalent prices with Oddball's nearly nonexistent ability
The republic is current suffering from a bizarre gap between I 2 clones and every other clone . I have no idea why we'd pay five points to go from an I 2 generic to 3. It's like the devs were utterly terrified of dedicated, but then JUST INCREASE DEDICATED
Anyway, my two cents there.
P.S: Sinker I can see being 54 points due to ability
Edited by ficklegreendice