3 hours ago, 5050Saint said:

I like the configuration as a way to make the ship more thematic, but so why don't we use the s-foils as a way to do it.

S-Foils Open: When attacking with a cannon secondary you may add one focus result if the defender is in your bullseye.

S-foils Closed: Decrease the difficulty of your 3 and 4 speed basic maneuvers.

It jives with the thematics. Open = all guns blazing. Closed = more speed.

I agree with the sentiment that double taps are too common and not fun.

Prefer maybe...

S-Foils Open: After you have attacked with a Primary weapon. If you are not stressed you may perform a bonus attack with Cannon secondary weapon.

Provides a trade off of a double tap against repositioning and not having a double modded double tap on Breylen. But pays off well on Ten Numb if you spend the stress on the primary.

Allows Cannons to be utilised without sacrificing the primary attack.

Might even equip two to account for ranges.

**** I might even use a jamming beam.

16 hours ago, ClassicalMoser said:

You mean like HLC? I thought it was too good to be true when that was first announced at 4 points, but I have since been decisively persuaded (through argument and experience) that it’s still not worth the points.

For as many bullseyes as you will get with a B-Wing, Crack Shot does basically they same thing for 1/4 the points.

I agree, that I want to be able to take cannons on the B-wing, but as is, it's generally not worth it. I think they should keep their firepower, because they were loaded with lasers and cannons, so they did have a fair amount of firepower. I think a cannon B-wing cannon configuration would be the best route to making things fit.

Something like:

Binary Weapons Configuration: Equipped cannons cannot be elected to make attacks. During a primary weapon attack, roll 1 extra attack die if at least one cannon is equipped. If the attack hits and the equipped cannon(s) deal token effects, you may spend 1 hit/crit per equipped cannon and apply the corresponding token(s) to the defender along with any other damage from the attack.

Something like this allows for the B-wing to keep it's decent firepower, but also gives a benefit to taking cannons in the first place despite it's 3 attack primary. It's thematic because it allows the B-wing to use both it's cannons and lasers but it also makes it unique in the game by allowing it to potentially apply two of the three token types applied by cannons, but at the cost of only being able to apply a single token of each type when it attacks. Would make it an interesting attacker - could potentially deal loads of damage, but at the same time being able to apply two different cannon tokens would be a good way to set up an attack from another ship, or take the punch out of the target's counter attack. I've been waiting and hoping for something to come along that allows cannon effects and primary attacks to be combined into a single slightly more powerful attack. That also eliminates the issue of double taps becoming too common and gives the B-wing a mechanic different to everything else in the game without it being unfamiliar. Just my thoughts on it.

3 hours ago, skotothalamos said:

For as many bullseyes as you will get with a B-Wing, Crack Shot does basically they same thing for 1/4 the points.

Yeah, if and when a B gets bulleye its often R1 and HLC does nothing, one of the main reasons I can't stand it.

But if we are talking generics, unless you place value on i3 over i2 (which I don't personally, at all) the real price of Crackshot is 3 not 1 since you have to pay for the slot, so really neither are viable options.

When 4x Blue Sq/AdvSen was 200 before the pts chance I took it for granted (well not totally, I did take it to a tourney once and got 3-1). Now the options for a generic B loadout are objectively worse and less interesting.

35 minutes ago, Unit34 said:

Binary Weapons Configuration:

Oooooo....I like this idea. Maybe Connie it with cannon point reduction (shooting for the stars here)

At least a double tap when 2 cannons are equipped. (One attack must be cannon, bonus attack can be anything)

I always thought the Bwing’s slender head-on frame should be taken into effect. If attacker is in Bwing bullseye then add a focus, blank or evade.

1 hour ago, Unit34 said:

Binary Weapons Configuration:

I’ve always been a fan of this sort of B-Wing ability, even in 1st edition. I think it can be done more elegantly though.

Linked Ion Cannons: When making a Primary Weapon attack, if the attack hits, assign one Ion Token to the defender.

(Config Slot and Cannon Slot)

This would still make Autoblasters situationally useful, and even let you setup some “kill shots”. B-Wings would become really scary to small ships, and Autoblasters are already terrifying to large ships.

Okay, with the new rag-doll B-Wings coming out (X-Wings are flappy, B-Wings are full rag doll), I think they should get a ship specific configuration or modification called "mobile bullseye arc".

How it works: after completing a maneuver, you may rotate your ship on it's axis (or if you're not one who likes to mess with the models much, use a mobile arc indicator). If the weapon on it's main wing is vertical (arc indicator forward), the bullseye arc is as shown on the cardboard. If that weapon (mobile arc) is to the left/right, the bullseye should be treated as being from the edge of the base to that side of the printed bullseye arc.

As for B-Wing specific weapons? Eh... maybe that capitol ship buster from Rebels that uses both cannon slots and a configuration and has a single charge. 5 dice and can re-roll up to 2 dice.

2 hours ago, prauxim said:

But if we are talking generics, unless you place value on i3 over i2 (which I don't personally, at all) the real price of Crackshot is 3 not 1 since you have to pay for the slot, so really neither are viable options.

oh, I'm not. Named aces all the way!

57 minutes ago, Kehl_Aecea said:

How it works: after completing a maneuver, you may rotate your ship on it's axis (or if you're not one who likes to mess with the models much, use a mobile arc indicator). If the weapon on it's main wing is vertical (arc indicator forward), the bullseye arc is as shown on the cardboard. If that weapon (mobile arc) is to the left/right, the bullseye should be treated as being from the edge of the base to that side of the printed bullseye arc.

If I have a Loose Stabilizer, do I have to just spin it randomly?

Just now, skotothalamos said:

If I have a Loose Stabilizer, do I have to just spin it randomly?

you put it at the end of a drill and just pull the trigger.

They should also have reinforce, in fluff they had fantastic shields.

4 hours ago, AngryAlbatross said:

They should also have reinforce, in fluff they had fantastic shields.

I could see a double-sided config: One side for reinforce, on side for some kind of cannon buff.

I love B-wings and this topic caught my attention so I thought I throw in my 2 cents. Firstly I'd give the developers more credit, they know what they're doing with this ship and what its intended capabilities are in the game and in lore. Given the scope of X-Wing they have had to find a nice middle ground between a capital ship hunter and a ship to ship dogfighter. The result is a tanky knife fighting cannon platform which suites the game quite well. The chassis itself is very solid and is competitively priced but currently its in-game role as a cannon carrier is under-served due to lackluster cannon options and a lack of a config upgrade that synergizes with those weapons. I had hoped we'd get those upgrades with the re-release of the B-wing for Wave 4 but it seems we'll have to wait a little longer.

Thematically speaking I think the B-wing will never be the capital ship killer it is suppose to be in this game, perhaps in Epic, but regardless I'm fine with that because as I said the scope of X-wing doesn't allow for it. As it stands I think all it needs are cards that allow it wield the big guns effectively and more pilot options. If you want B-wings that melts the armor and shields of any capital starship it comes in contact with, look no further than Armada!

45 minutes ago, Wraithdt said:

I love B-wings and this topic caught my attention so I thought I throw in my 2 cents. Firstly I'd give the developers more credit, they know what they're doing with this ship and what its intended capabilities are in the game and in lore. Given the scope of X-Wing they have had to find a nice middle ground between a capital ship hunter and a ship to ship dogfighter. The result is a tanky knife fighting cannon platform which suites the game quite well. The chassis itself is very solid and is competitively priced but currently its in-game role as a cannon carrier is under-served due to lackluster cannon options and a lack of a config upgrade that synergizes with those weapons. I had hoped we'd get those upgrades with the re-release of the B-wing for Wave 4 but it seems we'll have to wait a little longer.

Thematically speaking I think the B-wing will never be the capital ship killer it is suppose to be in this game, perhaps in Epic, but regardless I'm fine with that because as I said the scope of X-wing doesn't allow for it. As it stands I think all it needs are cards that allow it wield the big guns effectively and more pilot options. If you want B-wings that melts the armor and shields of any capital starship it comes in contact with, look no further than Armada!

Exactly, and this is the point of all of this. I think they got so much right with the chassis. The dial is great, the action bar is great (though some would make a case for reinforce), the linked action is fantastic and the pilots suit the chassis superbly.

It's literally just the cannon use that's missing, and it's because every other platform (except maybe the G1-A) has better incentives to take one (2-primary, double-tap, extra die, etc.) Either the B-Wing needs a chassis-specific price reduction (easy fix that doesn't require printing anything new, and would open up tons of new design space), or it needs a config to make better use of what cannons it chooses to take.

Hoping it comes in a card pack (please let this be a special may the 4th announcement!).

6 hours ago, Wraithdt said:

Firstly I'd give the developers more credit, they know what they're doing with this ship and what its intended capabilities are in the game and in lore. Given the scope of X-Wing they have had to find a nice middle ground between a capital ship hunter and a ship to ship dogfighter. The result is a tanky knife fighting cannon platform which suites the game quite well. The chassis itself is very solid and is competitively priced but currently its in-game role as a cannon carrier is under-served due to lackluster cannon options and a lack of a config upgrade that synergizes with those weapons.

5 hours ago, ClassicalMoser said:

Exactly, and this is the point of all of this. I think they got so much right with the chassis. The dial is great, the action bar is great (though some would make a case for reinforce), the linked action is fantastic and the pilots suit the chassis superbly.

It's literally just the cannon use that's missing, and it's because every other platform (except maybe the G1-A) has better incentives to take one (2-primary, double-tap, extra die, etc.) Either the B-Wing needs a chassis-specific price reduction (easy fix that doesn't require printing anything new, and would open up tons of new design space), or it needs a config to make better use of what cannons it chooses to take.

To add to this, I completely agree that most of the B-Wing's chassis is very well designed and fits the ship's role and performance capability. The biggest problem, I think, is actually the 3 dice primary.

The reason for that is pretty deep seated, and I could get in to a long and boring discussion about the design limitations of a mechanic that does not distinguish between weapon power and accuracy, and further does not distinguish between a ship's weapon and its ability to hit targets with it based on its own maneuverability. I'm not even necessarily advocating such a complex system for X-Wing, but it does underlie what's going on with the B-Wing.

The short version is simply that a 3 dice primary basically trumps every other forward arc weapon in the game other than torpedoes 90% of the time because there are limited ways to incorporate a weapon that does low damage but hits consistently. And when you do, as the rest of the system isn't designed ground up around that, you get TLT and it ruins everything.

Given that Heavy Laser Cannon, Autoblasters and Ion Cannon are now all in the game as cannon upgrades, there's a lore argument that the B-Wing shouldn't have a primary weapon at all, given the above are its weapons.

Given the level of abstraction, there's obviously an argument that the the 3 dice primary just represents some combination of those weapons working in tandem, but that of course throws up questions of why you would bother to give the B-Wing two cannon slots, and why you would include all three as optional weapons with their own effects.

The B-Wing's problem is simply that it is a very complicated ship that has been translated to a game of relatively simple mechanics. Moreover, it suffers from the fact that every ship needs to be able to kill every other ship efficiently to be good in a standard game.

I personally would love it if the B-Wing was a super cheap chassis with no primary weapon value, but could take HLC, Ion Cannon and Autoblasters. I think it make it interesting, unique and be a ton of fun to fly. I think, along with the other existing stats and the dial, it would perfectly represent the B-Wing I know, as a ship that can absolutely wreck big, slow ships but takes a bit of skill and good decision making to use effectively against agile starfighters. But it wouldn't be competitive....

Something simple like, "When performing a cannon attack, resolve the attack effects of all cannons equipped if the attack hits."

If I get a chance to Ion AND HLC on the same attack, that definitely gives me an option to consider at range 2 for example. Range 1 chance to tractor and jam? Might consider that over a primary attack on occasion.

I miss E2 config, FWIW. Could give a gunner slot there maybe.

Couldn't yous just consider the 3 dice primary to be a reflection of its default loadout being a heavy weapon?

6 hours ago, Talonbane Cobra said:

Couldn't yous just consider the 3 dice primary to be a reflection of its default loadout being a heavy weapon?

This. However, HLC is pretty good on them. On a related note, squad leader is good and thematic on the named pilots.

9 hours ago, Talonbane Cobra said:

Couldn't yous just consider the 3 dice primary to be a reflection of its default loadout being a heavy weapon?

I mean, you could, but

1) that doesn’t distinguish them from, for example, the X-Wing

2) That puts the double cannon slot in a pretty awkward position, doesn’t it?

3) Default loadout also included Ion and Autoblasters, so it’s only a half-truth in the first place.

I mean clearly that’s what we’re going to have to do until something better comes.

Eh, easy way to make B an ordnance platform is add a config slot that drops primary and gives you a free cannon/torp

Still, don't see how it'll outpace the Y as the secondary-weapon-workhorse of the faction

Another idea would be a "linked batteries" config that just gives you Ig-88b's ability (making jamming beam good for something)

But anyway, gameplay-wise the B has its niche and I don't think it'll leave it because the Y's got it covered

After watching Rebels I'm convinced B-wings should be much faster, and have at least 2 green dice. Maybe 3. Maybe a linked boost-barrel, barrel-boost.

I really hoped with the reedition of the B-wing, they would do something to add some flavour to this classic ship... but no.

I think our only hope is FFG finally realizing cannons need to be priced depending on your primary weapon value, if you want those 3 attack ships to use them.

In the meantime, B-wings are just beautiful, but boring game-wise.

5 hours ago, Green Knight said:

After watching Rebels I'm convinced B-wings should be much faster, and have at least 2 green dice. Maybe 3. Maybe a linked boost-barrel, barrel-boost.

I'm sure this is in jest, but it actually wouldn't hurt to have a "B-Wing Prototype" title that gives the b-wing a bit of oomph. This has been done before (Virago). If they create the huge cannon, it could be a double-cannnon slot that can only go on the prototype.

2 hours ago, MikeEvans said:

I'm sure this is in jest, but it actually wouldn't hurt to have a "B-Wing Prototype" title that gives the b-wing a bit of oomph. This has been done before (Virago). If they create the huge cannon, it could be a double-cannnon slot that can only go on the prototype.

I could definitely see a unique "Prototype B6" config/title for +1 agility, Decrease the difficulty of your basic maneuvers (maybe add red boost). 15ish points. A super expensive B-Wing super-ace would just be crazy fun.

Thematic and super fun, especially with an ace like Hera or Gina. Ugh now I'm super hoping for something for the B-Wing ASAP. This thread is just full of golden ideas.

Also, don't forget an /E2 configuration! I think that canonically it gave a gunner slot, but there aren't any gunners that would actually work at the moment (since they all require turrets for some reason), so that would need to be rectified as well.