On 5/1/2019 at 1:00 PM, Maui. said:

Without useful cannons, the B-wing is just another tanky 3-attack ship in a faction that is full of those things. It doesn't have a useful niche to fill. With so many options for the same basic concept you're essentially only going to see whichever is deemed the most points-efficient.

I tend to ALWAYS add Tractor Beams. Why?

Apart from throwing ships around to mess up formations, removing a green die helps every other ship in the squad.

4 minutes ago, Gallanteer said:

I tend to ALWAYS add Tractor Beams. Why?

Apart from throwing ships around to mess up formations, removing a green die helps every other ship in the squad.

I mean, that's really not a terrible plan... BUT it does require you to A) give up a 3 die attack for an attack that will do zero damage, and B) shoot first with your B-wing, which means you're either using Swarm Tactics or you're not flying anyone over initiative 4, so it's not necessarily the best way to go either.

I'd have a hard time actually shooting with the tractor beam unless I was denying my opponent a shot, either by throwing him on a rock or moving his arc, or practically guaranteeing an initiative kill, which again isn't a strategy you can use consistently without investing points & slots into Swarm Tactics, at which point it's really turning into a points sink for a situational strategy.

B-wings in standard X-wing are a bit of a fish out of water. Those that played the LucasArts games, taking a B-wing on a mission that only had you close-up dogfighting would be a bit of an odd choice. Not having any large prey to hunt made the B-wing a slower X-wing with more health. We will have to wait and see what huge ships do in second edition.

1 hour ago, Maui. said:

I mean, that's really not a terrible plan... BUT it does require you to A) give up a 3 die attack for an attack that will do zero damage, and B) shoot first with your B-wing, which means you're either using Swarm Tactics or you're not flying anyone over initiative 4, so it's not necessarily the best way to go either.

I'd have a hard time actually shooting with the tractor beam unless I was denying my opponent a shot, either by throwing him on a rock or moving his arc, or practically guaranteeing an initiative kill, which again isn't a strategy you can use consistently without investing points & slots into Swarm Tactics, at which point it's really turning into a points sink for a situational strategy.

Indeed. However, thow in both named Bs and 2 Ys is a combo I've had decent success with, all init4. Flying the same init allows for some interesting flying. Because you can change the activation order, the opponent is has extra info on how you might use but will always know that init 4 needs to move to make space for your elite init 5.

On 5/17/2019 at 10:41 AM, Gallanteer said:

Indeed. However, thow in both named Bs and 2 Ys is a combo I've had decent success with, all init4. Flying the same init allows for some interesting flying. Because you can change the activation order, the opponent is has extra info on how you might use but will always know that init 4 needs to move to make space for your elite init 5.

Your squad sounds really awesome. Mind sharing the list?

On 5/17/2019 at 1:18 AM, Pink_Viking said:

What's wrong with you people?

Edit: This thread is pretty much only wishlisting for buffs instead of actual redesign ideas.

Either you don't get it or I don't follow, not sure which.

No one has a problem with the B-Wing's performance; It's doing great competitively.

Many of us still feel that it doesn't feel like it should, most notably because it is generally flown with not one but two empty cannon slots, whereas in lore it came stock with at least 3.

But perhaps you're addressing the former specific suggestion?

11 minutes ago, ClassicalMoser said:

Either you don't get it or I don't follow, not sure which.

No one has a problem with the B-Wing's performance; It's doing great competitively.

Many of us still feel that it doesn't feel like it should, most notably because it is generally flown with not one but two empty cannon slots, whereas in lore it came stock with at least 3.

But perhaps you're addressing the former specific suggestion?

I meant that most "rework" suggestions are pretty much just wishing for doubletapping or proposals of buffs, instead of interesting rework ideas like those in the Defender thread. If people want their ideas to be taken seriously for every buff there should be a drawback.

B-wing is capital ship killer, IMHO it's okay that its cannons aren't as devastating against other nimble starfighters. If you want to represent their power, you should also account for their weaknesses, for example double taps should come with something like autoevades for enemy ships to show the inaccuracy.

54 minutes ago, Pink_Viking said:

I meant that most "rework" suggestions are pretty much just wishing for doubletapping or proposals of buffs, instead of interesting rework ideas like those in the Defender thread. If people want their ideas to be taken seriously for every buff there should be a drawback.

B-wing is capital ship killer, IMHO it's okay that its cannons aren't as devastating against other nimble starfighters. If you want to represent their power, you should also account for their weaknesses, for example double taps should come with something like autoevades for enemy ships to show the inaccuracy.

Agreed. Though I will say it’s fine to wish for a pure buff and a cost increase. I personally feel like it’s wrong that you can fit 4 in a list, but that’s just me.

I’d honestly prefer free/discounted cannons or some specific buff to using cannons than a double tap. I agree that double-tap is a kind of lazy/OP mechanic.

I suggested this in another thread, but it'd be cool to get a config that reduced the B-wing's primary attack by 1 die to give it the Upsilon's Linked Battery ability (+1 die to Cannon attacks). The ability to fit out B-wings to be dedicated cannon carriers that pack a huge punch, and with a bullseye-restricted 5 die cannon they'd certainly feel like big ship hunters.

It'd have to be a reasonably expensive config, and you'd probably have to include language to keep it from working with Autoblasters (since Linked Battery Autoblasters would just be a better 3 die primary), but it would go a long way towards giving the B-wing its own identity.

6 hours ago, Maui. said:

It'd have to be a reasonably expensive config, and you'd probably have to include language to keep it from working with Autoblasters (since Linked Battery Autoblasters would just be a better 3 die primary), but it would go a long way towards giving the B-wing its own identity.

Disagree actually. Autoblasters don’t go out to R3 so sufficient cost for the upgrade would probably work.

I expect it would need a condition or something to keep it balanced, along the lines of “if you are not stressed” or “If you are focused” or something.

9 hours ago, Pink_Viking said:

I meant that most "rework" suggestions are pretty much just wishing for doubletapping or proposals of buffs, instead of interesting rework ideas like those in the Defender thread. If people want their ideas to be taken seriously for every buff there should be a drawback.

B-wing is capital ship killer, IMHO it's okay that its cannons aren't as devastating against other nimble starfighters. If you want to represent their power, you should also account for their weaknesses, for example double taps should come with something like autoevades for enemy ships to show the inaccuracy.

Obviously you'd account for any changes with a points increase. Nobody's suggesting the B-wing needs buffs for nothing. It's already a top performer.

The problem is the B-wing doesn't do anything interesting. It's just a tanky 3-attack dice fighter. They rarely run any meaningful upgrades. I'd prefer if it was the Rebel's control ship with it's ion cannons, but the Y-wing with Ion turret and Veteran turret gunner does that way better atm. The Y-wing doesn't need to sacrifice damage for control effects like the B-wing currently does.