There is an issue that I'd like to solve. It came out in connection with Dooku crew.

I was thinking about this situation: an Infiltrator with Dooku onboard attacks other ship. Infiltrator has a lock on the target and attacks the ship.

I don't want to use Dooku on the roll - I want to roll the dice, see what comes of it, use the lock to reroll the dice and use Dooku on the rerolled dice.

I thought that it was legal, but someone pointed out, that it is not, as Dooku works while you roll the dice, but the reroll isn't a roll.

Is there a rule for that? I saw that in X-W 1.0 there was something that says that rerolling is different, than rolling. But now, in 2.0, I see that there exists such a statement: Reroll: To reroll a die result, pick up the die and roll it again.

As I read it - when you perform a reroll, you simply roll.

So, what do you think?

A reroll is a dice modification on page 9 so I agree that Dooku doesn't work that way. In the attack step you roll first (a) then modify (b).

Page 9 of the rules reference

"Rolling" dice is rolling your dice into a pool.

"Re-rolling" dice is a modification that occurs AFTER rolling dice.

So while "re-rolling" is in a sense, "rolling" dice, it is treated as a modification for gaming purposes so the window to use Dooku has passed.

"before a ship rolls attack or defense dice" are very specific timings.

it's described in dept on page four and five of the rules reference under "Attack".

i would rule that the changing of the dice happens only during modification, but Dooku must be used way before that, before the dice are rolled at all.

his ability cannot be used any time you would roll or reroll green or red dice - and it cannot be used for rerolls.

19 minutes ago, meffo said:

i would rule that the changing of the dice happens only during modification, but Dooku must be used way before that, before the dice are rolled at all.

I think that is still up in the air a bit. Whether or not he modifies the die is clearly based on the initial roll and any changes to that roll will not affect whether or not he gets to modify anything (ex. You call an evade, roll an evade and that evade is juked, Dooku cannot then change the focus back to an evade since the roll contained the named result.) This is supported by the ruling of how Han and C-3PO interact in the Official Rulings thread.

Originally I would have expected Dooku and C-3PO to modify the die result before the modify dice step given the timing on their cards, but since FFG decided to ignore the timing on Han's ability and place it in the modify dice step, there is nothing to suggest that modifying the die would not occur in that step. The best argument I can see for modifying the result before the modify dice step is the added complexity of determining whether or not they can modify the dice at a different step from when they actually modify the dice.

i like the consistency of all dice modification occuring during the modify dice steps. in the case of juke, after the attacker has modified the dice with juke, if the roll does not contain the result that was chosen with dooku (evade), the defender gets to change one result to that (evade).

I think if Dooku said, "If the dice results do not contain", then he would check the dice after a modification, but since he is referring to the roll itself I really think the determination of whether or not he triggers would be based on the initial roll, the same way that C-3PO's determination is done.

@joeshmoe554 i agree, but modification outside of the modification step hurts my brain too much to go with it. 🤪

i refuse to assume it takes place outside of the modification step until further notice. 😊

4 hours ago, Jedu said:

Is there          a rule for that? I saw that in X-W 1.0 there was   something that  says that rerolling is different, than rolling. But now, in 2.0, I see that there exists such a  statement: Reroll: To reroll a die result, pick up the die and roll it again.

The only "something" in the 1e rules that definitively said a roll is different from a reroll was in the FAQ section on page 23 of the FAQ v4.4.1.

Within the actual Rules Reference for 1e on p13 under Modifying Dice it says the exact same thing as the 2e Rules Reference (1.0.3) on p9 under Dice Modification :

"• Reroll: To reroll a die result, pick up the die and roll it again. "

I do wish that FFG had done their die diligence and included the answers to all of the 1e general FAQs and specific FAQs that's apply to general or popular abilities.

5 hours ago, Jedu said:

I don't want to use Dooku on the roll - I want to roll the dice, see what comes of it, use the lock to reroll the dice and use Dooku on the rerolled dice.

I'm going to go with that is not legal.

It seems to me that Dooku crew's ability occurs prior to the dice modification step. You use Dooku change as permitted by call and results. You then have the results you take to the modification step where you proceed as normal. Dooku happens in attack step 2A and your target lock re-roll happens in attack step 2B.

There is likely a lot of other confusion and shenanigan's prevented by Dooku only applying to the initial result before getting to the modify step.

You're suggesting hedging your bet with making the call on the target lock roll both by possibly already having a good result and rolling fewer die. This would quickly turn into players wanting to roll and keep the good results, TL the other dice and Dooku in another good result on only the dice (die) re-rolled. For example rolling a crit, a blank, and a focus, target lock just the blank and use Dooku on just one die. Then we'd have arguments about whether you'd be able to call "Critical" on just the single die and whether the critical kept before target lock re-roll counts or doesn't for changing the re-roll.

Doesn't seem in the spirit of the card and would quickly be called "broken." Dooku all in Attack Step 2A solves a lot of potential problems.

Conflating rolls and rerolls is broken. It is no less clear in 2e than 1e. Don't. Please.

Quote

Newbe help req, after the die are rolled can they only be 'touched once' - wether it's to modify a result or to re-roll ?

ie. can you modify after the re-roll ?

1 hour ago, ausxwing said:

Newbe help req, after the die are rolled can they only be 'touched once' - wether it's to modify a result or to re-roll ?

ie. can you modify after the re-roll ?

Yes you can. From the rules reference, "Although dice can be modified by multiple effects, each die cannot be rerolled more than once."

The restriction is only on the number of times a die can be rerolled.