Hel-lo!

Having read the Redemption's description in the books I'm still unclear on what kind of psyker would they persecute.

Would Redemptionists try to destroy any psyker or just witches (ie., non-sanctioned psykers)?

Thanks!

L

im supposing any psyker in ideals, but only witches in practice as getting away with the murder of a sanctioned psyker is liable to death

Hi!

That's "in the lines" of what I was thinking... So, this means that there can't be no psykers (officially) in the group, right? No Redemption psykers!

Thanks!

L

well exactly isnt that one of their rules?

Well, the Fluff sez: No witches

L

LETE said:

And the requirements for the elite advance package "The Cult of the Red Redemption" say no psykers ;-)

"Never suffer a witch to live " & all that jazz...

L

LETE said:

Redemptionist cults are typically extreme in their beliefs. The Cult of the Redemption found on Necromunda preaches that, in essence, everyone who isn't a Redemptionist is a sinner and must be put to the chainsword or purged with fire. This includes, but is not limited to, psykers of all kinds (defined as 'witches' without allowing for any differences), mutants, actual heretics, aliens and anyone who gets in their way. Such cults tend to be illegal anyway, as they're not sanctioned variations of the Imperial Creed.

Other variations on the Redemptionist concept may be more or less forgiving of nonbelievers, but they're unlikely to be tolerant of anyone who is in any way deviant - which includes psykers of all kinds, mutants, actual heretics, aliens and anyone who gets in their way.

N0-1_H3r3 said:

Agreed. And, does anyone have a clear definition of exactly what is considered a witch ? Either by normal Imperial standards, or in the eyes of the Redemption? Just curious.

*technically* speaking, a witch is an unsanctioned psyker. In practise, if they're happy to go to the Black Ships when found (I can't imagine this occurring too frequently), people will usually handwave the fact that they're technically a witch at this point (they haven't exactly had a chance to be un-witched, as it were).

So in effect, a witch becomes anyone exhibiting psychic capability who resists the rightful Imperial Black Ships and the psychic tithes. Genuinely thought by most people to be in league with the devil/chaos/bad mojo, because after all, what right-thinking upstanding God-Emperor-fearing citizen would disobey his laws?

Redemptionists, however, are extremists in a most fanatical sense, as we've seen/heard/read numerous times. They don't particularly care if a psyker is sanctioned or not. I suppose the concept of them calling everything a witch could come about from a lack of education on psykers (the average imperial citizen probably isn't taught too much about this and I can't imagine The Redemption drawing in the most intellectually-inclined members), thus branding everything psychic an evil deviant to be put to the torch.

Or it could just be used as an insult, equating "witch" to "dirty deviant sinner ***** (plus others I didn't think of)". Much like numerous slang for homosexuals and the contexts it can be used in today.

It's part of what makes the Red Redemption something other than just another Ministorium sub-sect. They are so extreme that they would, if allowed to, kill every psyker they could - including the Navigators, including the Astropaths, including the Astronomicon choirs. No matter that this would effectively shatter the Imperium, death to all psykers in the name of the Emperor's Wrath.

I'd assume they aren't quite unified in their beliefs either. While their dictates demand they don't suffer a witch to live, what exactly is considered a witch may be different from cell to cell. After all, there are Redemptionists in the higher parts of society (eviscerators aren't exactly cheap) and they know the Imperium would be doomed without Astropaths and Navigators. Still doesn't mean they'll like them, but they probably won't go three-eye-killing while on a ship in warp-transit.

There definitely won't be known psykers in the sect and there won't be Redemptionists accepting non-sanctioned psykers. The rest may or may not depend on the individual and the cell, especially for those who are actually part of the inquisition and may have to deal with conundrums like psychic inquisitors.

Cifer said:

I doubt there are many Redemptionists among nobles and high-ranking bureaucrats. The Redemption is more of a prole thing, imo. Of course, this doesn't mean that they aren't any nobles who support the Redemption as a way to keep the rabble under control. After all, witch-hunting keeps all these violent, anti-social elements busy and if they burn some innocents in the name of the Emperor well, there is plenty more where those came from...

@Kyorou

You might want to take a look at the Cult Of The Red Redemption package in the IH as well as the Necromunda fluff then. The former mentions that there are quite a few officials, even in the Adepta, who have a set of red robes tucked away somewhere while the latter has the entire noble house Cawdor unofficially adopting the cult as their religion.

Even the gang codex for Necromunda Redemptionists supports both the rabble-roused gangs and the well-supported ones that have a church authority figure as their leader.

Cifer said:

Cawdor aren't a noble house. The noble houses of Necromunda are Helmawr, Greim, Ulanti, Ty, Ran Lo, Catallus and Ko'Iron. Cawdor is one of the industrial/manufacturing houses of the mid-Hive.

...right. Still, not exactly a nobody.

Kyorou said:

Two things:

1. Never under-estimate the potential insanity that can develop within the highest ranks of the Imperium. Monodominants are the oldest and most entrenched puritan faction in the Inquisition, and they're down with the "kill all mutants and psykers no matter what." So I don't see higher-ups being a problem.

2. Redemptionism would probably be a majority-prole thing. After all, it's people who live in/near the Underhive who are most exposed to mutancy, all kinds of legalized depravity, and have the least imperial interactions/oversight. That's another aspect of the Red Redemption to keep in mind - Redemptionists believe very strongly that they know the Emperor's will (hence, not needing any muckety-mucks in the Ministorium to tell them who to burn), that the powers that be are corrupt and lax because they tolerate deviance, and so forth - it's a very anti-authoritarian ideology, compared to the official Ministorium party line.

That being said, there are plenty of upper-class folks who might see this as a good thing - if they have secret recidivist tendencies, or are on the outs politically and looking for a way to topple their rivals, etc. Heck, a Monodominant/Recongregator/Istvaanite Inquisitor might have good reasons to be Redemptionist.

Vikingkingq said:

They're not just anti-authoritarian, they're anti-everything. In many cases, Redemptionist Cults believe that all sinners should be purged in blood and fire, and go on to define sinners as everyone that isn't a Redemptionist - those they assail (so long as they're not mutants, witches, etc) have one choice: repent (by joining the Redemption) or die.

@Vikingkingq : I agree with you on the point that some high-ranking people in the Imperium might be frothing deviant-haters and that some of them might see the redemption as a useful tool to their ends. I was actually implying the same thing. But I don't think these individuals will be active members of the cult and go burn some mutants and witches in the underhive with their Redemptionists buddies every friday night. I see them more as supporters of the Redemption, sending a few gelts now and then in the Redemption trunks to help them pay their prometheum bills and using their influence to make sure law-enforcement doesn't get too hard on these upright and good-willing (if a bit too enthusiastic) citizens.

@Cifer : You have a point regarding the Cawdors but I see them as being more of an exception than the rule. Besides, they're sympathizers, not members of the Redemption.

There's no real free pass with Redemptionists, they aren't an extremist hate group along the lines of your typical racial supremists that have people tucking robes away for Friday night Bourbon and BBQ sessions and then sneaking back to a quietly bigoted lifestyle and a bumper sticker... they just go that one step further and make it a full time job.

Always cranky! All the time!

They burn anyone who doesn't adhere to the Imperial Creed, or for what they think is the Imperial Creed, which I think basically covers everyone else except them and not exactly user friendly to manipulate because they tend to consider anyone who isn't with them but has some sympathies as being "Weak", not 100% wholesome and fit for the pyre.

Burning witches and mutants is by and large their favourite activity, burning anyone else not with them just eliminates that potential doubt that they 'might' one day be a witch or mutant