A lot of people dont like the at st, most commonly saying it needs a red defebse die.

In the spirit of the upgrade card pack, i would like to brainstorm on ways we can "fix" issues in the game we find lacking, without releasing new stat cards.

My example, as stated above, i am one ofvthe ones who believe the at st needs better defense.

My solution, a vehicle upgrade card pack with this card.

Reinforced armor

Imperial only, walker only

Hardpoint x2 (ie it takes up 2 hardpoint slots)

Upgrade defense dice to red

Vehicle gains plodding keyword

20 point card

What i am hoping to do is open a dialogue were we-unstead of complaining about what we think is wrong-offer solutions and suggestions.

I really think the AT-ST is done. Hammertime driver is probably the best that's going to happen to it outside a 20pt decrease or 20pt 'free' allotment for weapons

Ok, so I am curious as to why you would say this? Are you just tried of hearing about it? If you believe there's no problem with it and it doesn't need to be addressed, that's fine, however there are more than a few people that feel it underperforms. Rather than just scrape it and never use it again I am trying to offer solutions to make it usable.

I feel exactly the same about the t 47 airspeeder for rebels. It under preforms. Rather than complain and not offer a solution, i would like to brainstorm with the community to find a solution that doesn't involve rewriting the stat card.

Are you playing at the LGS or just among friends?

If you are just playing at home, try some of your fix ideas out and play test how they impact the game. It’s your game - play how you agree to.

My AT-ST experience tells me this fix wouldn’t help — it’s rare that my walker goes down, so the better saves wouldn’t matter. It’s biggest challenge has always been getting enough damage output to make it worthwhile. I need new hardpoints with Pierce, or a sharpshooter pilot. Maybe the surge gaining pilot will help (need to pick that up and give it a try).

I m talking organized play, LGS. Empire players dont take them, not worth it. Surge to hit helps, they are too vulnerable to fire

4 minutes ago, Thalandar said:

I m talking organized play, LGS. Empire players dont take them, not worth it. Surge to hit helps, they are too vulnerable to fire

I guess I just don’t see it.

Ive taken the ATST to LGS organized play, and it has only died once. Most of the time, it just doesn’t do enough damage to be worth it, but it doesn’t actually go down most of the time.

No i still think and have always thought it and the t47 need a 20pt decrease. The hammer driver fixed any offensive problems. 20pt allotment for weapons and the atst is fine. Anything that makes it more expensive ruins it. Defense is fine if it stays cheap enough

11 minutes ago, buckero0 said:

No i still think and have always thought it and the t47 need a 10pt decrease. The hammer driver fixed any offensive problems. 20pt allotment for weapons and the atst is fine. Anything that makes it more expensive ruins it. Defense is fine if it stays cheap enough

Offense was the only problem the ST had, and I've had enough rounds as a rebel player against the hammer pilot to know that it's not a problem anymore. It's a real threat now, and it is well within it's new capacity to delete a corp unit a round with ease.

This isn't an upgrade but a change to the RRG. I think the Speeder X entry should add this rule: "A unit with Speeder X is may never have its Cover reduced below X by Sharpshooter." In other words, Bikes would always have Cover 1, and the T47, which desperately needs help, would never have its cover reduced below 2 if it took the new pilot. Bikes right now get wrecked by Snipers, and the T47 is still going to go down to Bobas Rocket attack pretty easily. I think this change makes thematic sense as well as since they are moving so fast, even a sharpshooter can't hit them except with luck.

All of the vehicles except the airspeeder are fine. There just needs to be a rules update that allows them to meaningfully effect VP scoring.

4 hours ago, buckero0 said:

I really think the AT-ST is done. Hammertime driver is probably the best that's going to happen to it outside a 20pt decrease or 20pt 'free' allotment for weapons

So... what you're saying, in regards to the driver and the AT-ST is:

U Can't Touch This
https://g.co/kgs/PvDk6a

29 minutes ago, KommanderKeldoth said:

All of the vehicles except the airspeeder are fine. There just needs to be a rules update that allows them to meaningfully effect VP scoring.

Or at least more missions where vehicles can score.

This is, frankly, kind of bizarre. The AT-ST is PLENTY tough. I've rarely seen one go down. The issue is that it doesn't actually do enough to help you WIN, i.e. kill stuff. That's why the new pilots boost offense so much.

I still think the AT-ST's cost is a problem, it hampers your army building a little too much, just like the T-47, but with the new generic driver, I think it can justify it's cost, especially with a little cover. I would love a weapon allotment or discount (which will never happen), with 20pts to play with for weapons, you can kit it out however you like for what you want it to do, you still have the driver tax and it's not going to be cheap, but at least it's not break the list expensive. Right now it is probably too expensive so you can't really take an AT-ST and a Bounty Hunter or Palps or Vader, so the lists you see one in are still very limited, making them one - dimensional and more dice dependent, where you feel like the defense matters perhaps.

45 minutes ago, buckero0 said:

I still think the AT-ST's cost is a problem, it hampers your army building a little too much, just like the T-47, but with the new generic driver, I think it can justify it's cost, especially with a little cover. I would love a weapon allotment or discount (which will never happen), with 20pts to play with for weapons, you can kit it out however you like for what you want it to do, you still have the driver tax and it's not going to be cheap, but at least it's not break the list expensive. Right now it is probably too expensive so you can't really take an AT-ST and a Bounty Hunter or Palps or Vader, so the lists you see one in are still very limited, making them one - dimensional and more dice dependent, where you feel like the defense matters perhaps.

Decreasing the current cost of the ST in any way would hamper the Occupier, whose biggest selling point is being significantly cheaper than the ST. I also don't see the issue of it restricting list builds as that's part of the challenge of the game. You can't have everything so you have to choose what's important to you. Rebel players aren't complaining about not being able to run Luke, Leia, Han, and Chewie in a game. Is that limiting, sure. Is it necessarily bad, no. Unlike my admittedly bad example, there is nothing stopping you from running Palp with an ST and Boba/Bossk. It totally fits. Up here, I've regularly seen Veers, Boba, and an ST in one list. No snipers, but those really don't see much play around here because they're boring and we play this game to have fun.

I also don't understand what you mean by dice dependent as all units fall under this category.

6 minutes ago, thepopemobile100 said:

I also don't understand what you mean by dice dependent as all units fall under this category.

I always laugh when people say this for games like Legion.

Need Chewbacca crew for the captured AT-ST.

I don't think increasing the cost of the ATST any further is going to help it.

7 hours ago, arnoldrew said:

This is, frankly, kind of bizarre. The AT-ST is PLENTY tough. I've rarely seen one go down. The issue is that it doesn't actually do enough to help you WIN, i.e. kill stuff. That's why the new pilots boost offense so much.

The new pilots don’t boost offense as much as simply taking Weiss and the hard points.

Max value of surge to crit is .125 x number of dice, which if you take the 88 is 9 x .125 or 1.125

Grenade Launcher is worth 1 on its own, and blast on its own is worth 2, Mortar adds another .75; so even if you discount the 2 hit power of blast, you’re still dealing .625 more by taking Weiss than the Hammer pilot.

2 hours ago, Derrault said:

The new pilots don’t boost offense as much as simply taking Weiss and the hard points.

Max value of surge to crit is .125 x number of dice, which if you take the 88 is 9 x .125 or 1.125

Grenade Launcher is worth 1 on its own, and blast on its own is worth 2, Mortar adds another .75; so even if you discount the 2 hit power of blast, you’re still dealing .625 more by taking Weiss than the Hammer pilot.

Yeah, but you are paying way more too. The most efficient build of the ATST is actually to take Arbmab and the GL and keep moving and shooting at people out of cover. If you make it work (which you very much can) it deals the most damage for your buck of any Heavy the Imperials can buy. Weiss deals a little more damage but costs way more.

14 hours ago, SirCormac said:

Yeah, but you are paying way more too. The most efficient build of the ATST is actually to take Arbmab and the GL and keep moving and shooting at people out of cover. If you make it work (which you very much can) it deals the most damage for your buck of any Heavy the Imperials can buy. Weiss deals a little more damage but costs way more.

Sending in Arbmab-ST to blast units out of cover and displace others from objectives sounds fun, I'm tempted to try this

On 4/25/2019 at 1:00 PM, Thalandar said:

I m talking organized play, LGS. Empire players dont take them, not worth it. Surge to hit helps, they are too vulnerable to fire

Too vulnerable to fire? I rarely see one die without a dedicated source of impact actually dealing damage is rare. Sure the white dice doesn't block much but without impact an attack won't deal much.

At-ST fell to being hit by logs. White die is fine.

Honestly, there needs to be a battle condition card that allows vehicles to excel. Currently, troopers are used to capture objectives, save for breakthrough.

Maybe a hardpoint upgrade that allows other units to share line of site with the vehicle

21 hours ago, armada439 said:

I don't think increasing the cost of the ATST any further is going to help it.

Chewie will be a negative points cost.