Just now, mcgreag said:Uh no? Karsabi does not allow you do Slam, reload and shoot in the same turn.
Correct, neither does os-1 though. Kersabi allows you to SLAM in and shoot with their primary, a cannon or munition (if they already have a lock) and repeat it every round. Double 2 is faster than a single 3.
2 minutes ago, Hiemfire said:Correct, neither does os-1 though. Kersabi allows you to SLAM in and shoot with their primary, a cannon or munition (if they already have a lock) and repeat it every round. Double 2 is faster than a single 3.
Only difference is primary, for cannon and munitions the titles already enable the same thing except the titles allows you to do a double 3 every turn with cannons or with munitions if you have a lock.
1 minute ago, mcgreag said:Only difference is primary, for cannon and munitions the titles already enable the same thing except the titles allows you to do a double 3 every turn with cannons or with munitions if you have a lock.
Not with munitions on turns where you reload. SLAM + reload = 2 weapon disabled tokens which shuts down os-1 (and xg-1, but reloading on an xg-1 is questionable). Both configs specify "exactly 1 weapon disabled token".
Just now, Hiemfire said:Not with munitions on turns where you reload. SLAM + reload = 2 weapon disabled tokens which shuts down os-1 (and xg-1, but reloading on an xg-1 is questionable). Both configs specify "exactly 1 weapon disabled token".
Can't do it with Kersabi because stress
Okay. Let me try this again. Karsabi can consistently maintain their firepower output while at speed since they do not need to reload ever unless they take munitions, and those are unnecessary on them. They weren't designed to use the configurations at all. Karsabi HLC will roll all 4 dice and still be able to shoot someone at range 1 or outside of bullseye arc after SLAMing, unlike HLC Xg-1. Honestly Karsabi doesn't even need a cannon. Take a stinking talent on them instead and use their primary (which unlike every other Starwing they can when SLAMing). Out of all of the Gunboat pilots Karsabi requires the least upgrade investment to get them ticking, even works with none. A Nu built for munitions or damaging cannons costs at minimum 1 point less than Karsabi bare. A Rho is 2 points more expensive (equal to Karsabi + FCS or Pred or Trick). For either if you're running Os-1 the moment your charges are up you either have to disengage and reload or slow down to keep firing. Xg-1 Nus and Rhos are capped out at 3 dice unless they slow down, and the one that can do more than 1 damage in an attack can only cause hits and is stuck bullseye arc only. Trick Karsabi can still roll 3-4 dice using their primary (2-3 if not obstacle obstructed) and actually get crits that damage, plus they do not have to reload. They don't slow down... 2-2 is faster than "I wanna shoot" 3-reload. They are not pointless, they just don't fly like the other gunboats and that turns you off.
2 minutes ago, Hiemfire said:Okay. Let me try this again. Karsabi can consistently maintain their firepower output while at speed since they do not need to reload ever unless they take munitions, and those are unnecessary on them. They weren't designed to use the configurations at all. Karsabi HLC will roll all 4 dice and still be able to shoot someone at range 1 or outside of bullseye arc after SLAMing, unlike HLC Xg-1. Honestly Karsabi doesn't even need a cannon. Take a stinking talent on them instead and use their primary (which unlike every other Starwing they can when SLAMing). Out of all of the Gunboat pilots Karsabi requires the least upgrade investment to get them ticking, even works with none. A Nu built for munitions or damaging cannons costs at minimum 1 point less than Karsabi bare. A Rho is 2 points more expensive (equal to Karsabi + FCS or Pred or Trick). For either if you're running Os-1 the moment your charges are up you either have to disengage and reload or slow down to keep firing. Xg-1 Nus and Rhos are capped out at 3 dice unless they slow down, and the one that can do more than 1 damage in an attack can only cause hits and is stuck bullseye arc only. Trick Karsabi can still roll 3-4 dice using their primary (2-3 if not obstacle obstructed) and actually get crits that damage, plus they do not have to reload. They don't slow down... 2-2 is faster than "I wanna shoot" 3-reload. They are not pointless, they just don't fly like the other gunboats and that turns you off.
That sound about right. Probably the less upgrades he has the better.
Hmm. Outmaneuver could make him a good flanker with just his primary.
7 hours ago, Jo Jo said:Why aren't 2 Defender lists a thing?
They kind of are a thing. Just not a meta thing. Pretty hard to fly. Variance is a weakness. Both those things make them un-ideal for major tournaments, but they do get played and they can do alright. It is actually good, in it's own way.
Rex vs Vader. It is Vader, but it is close. Happy to build round either, often do. Both would be nice.....
35 minutes ago, Hiemfire said:Okay. Let me try this again. Karsabi can consistently maintain their firepower output while at speed since they do not need to reload ever unless they take munitions, and those are unnecessary on them. They weren't designed to use the configurations at all. Karsabi HLC will roll all 4 dice and still be able to shoot someone at range 1 or outside of bullseye arc after SLAMing, unlike HLC Xg-1. Honestly Karsabi doesn't even need a cannon. Take a stinking talent on them instead and use their primary (which unlike every other Starwing they can when SLAMing). Out of all of the Gunboat pilots Karsabi requires the least upgrade investment to get them ticking, even works with none. A Nu built for munitions or damaging cannons costs at minimum 1 point less than Karsabi bare. A Rho is 2 points more expensive (equal to Karsabi + FCS or Pred or Trick). For either if you're running Os-1 the moment your charges are up you either have to disengage and reload or slow down to keep firing. Xg-1 Nus and Rhos are capped out at 3 dice unless they slow down, and the one that can do more than 1 damage in an attack can only cause hits and is stuck bullseye arc only. Trick Karsabi can still roll 3-4 dice using their primary (2-3 if not obstacle obstructed) and actually get crits that damage, plus they do not have to reload. They don't slow down... 2-2 is faster than "I wanna shoot" 3-reload. They are not pointless, they just don't fly like the other gunboats and that turns you off.
So you are saying that the reason to take Karsabi is to be able to slam and do an unmodified 2 die attack? Because the HLC thing is not a reason, Rho or Nu with advanced slam and HLC will do a 3 die + focus with is statistically better than 4 die without focus. And Trickshot is just a joke, you are not going to convince me that a ship at is practically limited to 2 banks can consistently line up shots through obstacles without flying into them the next turn.
I stand by my point, Karsabi has no reason to exist.
Since this topic basically became a Gunboat discussion thread, I feel it is relevant to bring up that the Denver System Open was just won in large part by an Alpha Class Star Wing. Because of this performance, I doubt you'll see the drop in points on Star Wings like some of you were hoping for. Maybe on Karsabi whose ability seems a bit underwhelming since the titles make the Lieutenant's ability a bit irrelevant.