Playing around with some ideas for a new Imperial HS list, now I have my hands on a Striker....

(42) "Duchess" [TIE/sk Striker] (1) Ruthless: 43

(40) Storm Squadron Ace [TIE Advanced x1] (2) Fire-Control System (1) Crack Shot: 43

(40) Storm Squadron Ace [TIE Advanced x1] (2) Fire-Control System (1) Crack Shot: 43

(49) Major Vermeil [TIE Reaper] (14) Darth Vader (4) Shield Upgrade: 67

Total points: 196

Duchess- Such a cheap ace. She'll hang off and use the others as meat shield. They're ok as Ruthless targets, so a bit more mileage in it than Predator maybe.

Storms- Chosen over Tempests for ease of lock acquisition on opposing generics, with the potential to Init kill them. Only 2pt more than the I2 seems good value. Also brings Crack Shot, to either pump up the 2 die primary or push through a crit.

Vermeil- is Vermeil. Props up the Storms on a joust and then just hammers things.

Overall, been quite impressed by how much damage this lot can kick out, whilst also being fairly resistant.

Shield upgrade is very optional. If it were dropped, what would you replace it with? Intimidation appeals but feels like an obvious gambit with Ruthless in there.

My other take on this list is all change. Sabacc, Vader, Maarek and an SBP. Upgrades there are incredibly minimal. FCS x2 is basically it.

Your thoughts?

15 minutes ago, Cuz05 said:

Shield upgrade is very optional. If it were dropped, what would you replace it with?

Tactical Officer, maybe. Vermeil with Vader has surprisingly efficient attack without needing actions, and TIE/x1 live and die by their ability to acquire a target lock.

Alternatively, you could always stick with a red co-ordinate and consider Ciena Ree. Combined with Duchess' ability to aileron whilst stressed, you can pull some ridiculous moves off a co-ordinated roll.

1 hour ago, Magnus Grendel said:

Alternatively, you could always stick with a red co-ordinate and consider Ciena Ree. Combined with Duchess' ability to aileron whilst stressed, you can pull some ridiculous moves off a co-ordinated roll.

Oo now that's my kind of lunacy. Definitely going to have to try it. Feels like far too many points on Vermeil at that point, to make it to the final form, but I'm game for a run with it. Thanks for the nudge.

Tac Officer I've considered, as I always do with the Reaper. Here, it feels at its most disposable. The main thing with TO is opening up the coord to sloop after the 1st engagement. I think Vermeil may be jamming or evading at that stage instead. Then maybe purposely bumping instead of slooping. He'll probably not need it at any other point. Since the x1's will be the other half of the pincer, he'll be using the red coord to maintain pace, if he coords at all.

One of the things that has attracted me to this, over Maarek or Vader, is that the x1s are just sacrificial beat sticks. They don't necessarily need maximising with support, the way Maarek would. Intention is just to throw them in and have them cause headaches. Vermeil and Duchess will cause havoc if the x1s become a target. Or if Vermeil draws the heat, like he will, they'll have more time to set up their own targets. Then they become genuine terrors.

Your idea for 2x TIE x1 made me thinking... While Vermeil is great, with 1 Evade and 8 life he can go down really fast so I don't like overloading him with upgrades. (My current list is Duchess w/ Predator, Maarek w/ Fire Control, Vermeil w/ Tac Officer + Shield, 2x Academy Pilots). Also as mentioned above the x1 really needs the TL to pull it's weight.

So here is what I came up with:

Darth Vader (65)
Fire-Control System (2)

Maarek Stele (46)
Fire-Control System (2)

Scarif Base Pilot (41)

“Duchess” (42)
Total: 198

Vader can get the TL/Focus on his own, Maarek will be coordinated the TL/Focus, then the Reaper can block and Duchess can fly on her own. And you get one 6 and two 5 Initiative pilots! What do you think?

If your're decent at controling Range, Lone Wolf Duchess isn't half bad. Pushing damage through is really nice though.

Now that they're HS legal, have you considered Bombers instead of the X1? You can eek out one more use of Ruthless on each them since they're cheaper and have similar dial to the X1 (sans T-rolls). Just a thought.

“Duchess” (42)
Ruthless (1)
Afterburners (6)

Major Vermeil (49)
Ruthless (1)
Tactical Officer (2)
Darth Vader (14)
Shield Upgrade (4)

Gamma Squadron Ace (32)
Crack Shot (1)
Concussion Missiles (6)

Gamma Squadron Ace (32)
Crack Shot (1)
Concussion Missiles (6)
Total: 197

View in Yet Another Squad Builder 2.0

10 hours ago, C3gorach said:

Darth Vader (65)
Fire-Control System (2)

Maarek Stele (46)
Fire-Control System (2)

Scarif Base Pilot (41)

“Duchess” (42)
Total: 198

I like it. Its exactly the other combo I was considering and have yet to rule out.

The reason I'm leaning towards the one posted is just the lack of room for upgrades. Duchess with nothing added can be a bit weak, but with Vader and Maarek, she doesn't need to carry much weight. The naked SBP is also kind of underwhelming, but that's more me just finding it a little boring, rather than any particular flaw.

What it means though, is there is a lot of onus on the x1s to do the work. Losing one early can make the rest of the game a struggle. With the other version, all 4 ships can cause trouble for the opponent and it seems like there's more wiggle room, plus bait and trap potential, in the opening engagements.

Vader and Maarek are super nasty though and you're dead right about Vermeils squishyness. Both squads will fly quite differently and probably have different favourable match ups.

10 hours ago, Force Majeure said:

Now that they're HS legal, have you considered Bombers instead of the X1? You can eek out one more use of Ruthless on each them since they're cheaper and have similar dial to the X1 (sans T-rolls). Just a thought.

I have actually. The 2 Jedi + 2 Torrents archetype woke me up to the potential there. I think I'd go Barrage Scimitars for simplicity, but CS Conc Gammas is an interesting alt on the Storms. I just really like the x1 so it's a flavour thing for me atm.

Afterburners has made it onto Duchess in a couple other variations I looked at. Which sets me thinking....

I tried Ciena Ree in the list last night, against my boy, just for fun. Fits with Vader, dropping Shield and both Cracks, at 200pt. He killed Duchess early, because I yolo'd her in the mix with Ciena.... But late game, with only Vermeil and a Storm left, Ciena turned that lone Storm into a huge pain in the neck. Their turns are poor, when enemy ships are in close, but blue move + focus + roll and rotate, with lock already acquired, makes for an extraordinary knife fighter.

I can't imagine leveraging it much in a proper game and 73pt Vermeil is pretty crazy in itself. But applying that madness to Afterburners Duchess would make her hilariously unpredictable. Definitely seems a casual thing either way

Now, I admit, I am a HUGE fan of Predator on Duchess. Ruthless is too wanton imho. So there's that.

However, I might suggest that you change your Vader Carrier to Feroph. He can freely focus for offence or jam. As the Vader carrier, he is a distinct target. But he won't die NEARLY as fast.

52 minutes ago, Greebwahn said:

Now, I admit, I am a HUGE fan of Predator on Duchess. Ruthless is too wanton imho. So there's that.

However, I might suggest that you change your Vader Carrier to Feroph. He can freely focus for offence or jam. As the Vader carrier, he is a distinct target. But he won't die NEARLY as fast.

Both good points. Funnily enough, my boy ran Feroph Vader against me today and it was a royal pain. His ability was definitely the thing that kept him alive and contributing his half points to the score, as well as maintaining the Chokes. Certainly feels like it might be better, and lend a different dynamic. He's the pilot I've used the least (like once or twice), so I always underestimate how much more resilient he is when building.

One of the reasons I like Ruthless is because it is guaranteed. Rerolls can be naff and feel bad. Doesn't need to be used often, once or twice at the right time is often enough. Plus it allows Duchess to sidle away at range and get a mod, rather than face up or look to close the gap. Feroph may actually make it an easier and more repeatable choice too.

I wouldn't argue that Predator isn't better, but it is twice the price....

An interesting twist here. My son squidged a 35pt FCS Baron of the Empire in a similar list and it's proven to be pretty good. As a substitute for Duchess, allowing Maarek, Feroph and some form of Vader, it seems to be forming a very solid list that doesn't fold easy anywhere.

For Hyperspace, the Striker remains, ofc.

On 4/26/2019 at 9:55 PM, Greebwahn said:

Now, I admit, I am a HUGE fan of Predator on Duchess. Ruthless is too wanton imho. So there's that.

However, I might suggest that you change your Vader Carrier to Feroph. He can freely focus for offence or jam. As the Vader carrier, he is a distinct target. But he won't die NEARLY as fast.

Recent games at home have given this suggestion good weight!

This is the version I'm possibly testing on casual night, very much in line.

(42) "Duchess" [TIE/sk Striker] (2) Predator Points: 44

(46) Maarek Stele [TIE Advanced x1] (2) Fire-Control System Points: 48

(42) Zertik Strom [TIE Advanced x1] (2) Fire-Control System Points: 44

(47) Captain Feroph [TIE Reaper] (14) Darth Vader (2) Tactical Officer Points: 63 Total points: 199

Strom is just a test piece, currently. Equally likely to be a Storm and a couple 1pt EPTs for the x1s.

Testing at home for the week is done. Casual night tonight, the list is off for some genuine practice, in time for a couple upcoming HS tourneys.

It was settled, but then I just cottoned on to the Afterburners/Composure trick.... so I may yet squeeze that in for Maarek....

In the settled list, Duchess has been dropped for a more serious threat and a genuine target priority question....

(46) Maarek Stele [TIE Advanced x1] (1) Marksmanship (2) Fire-Control System. Points: 49

(47) Captain Feroph [TIE Reaper] (14) Darth Vader (2) Tactical Officer. Points: 63

(44) "Pure Sabacc" [TIE/sk Striker] (1) Ruthless. Points: 45

(40) Storm Squadron Ace [TIE Advanced x1] (2) Fire-Control System (1) Crack Shot. Points: 43

Total points: 200

Feroph and the Storm are best buddies and cause carnage at R1. Sabacc will bait and snipe or pounce. Maarek supports the Feroph/Storm alpha. Plays very similarly to Imp Salad, with Sabacc in the Gideon role, Storm as Countdown and Maarek for Vader ofc. Just some variation in the balance of the pilots and their power.

However, with Afterburners and Composure, it'd look like this.

(46) Maarek Stele [TIE Advanced x1] (1) Composure (6) Afterburners. Points: 53

(47) Captain Feroph [TIE Reaper] (14) Darth Vader (2) Tactical Officer. Points: 63

(42) "Duchess" [TIE/sk Striker] (2) Predator. Points: 44

(40) Storm Squadron Ace [TIE Advanced x1] Points: 40

Total points: 200

But I'm not at all sure whether it's worth losing the potential extra hits from Sabaac and the Storm to give Maarek that smidge of extra efficiency. No FCS at all seems like a significant drop. With VaderFeroph and Sabacc coming in from different angles, Maarek should not suffer too much early attention, and if he does, he just focusses and it's problems for the other guy from both flanks.

We will see later, if the 1st list flops in my 1st game

The first one seems much more balanced

4 hours ago, Greebwahn said:

The first one seems much more balanced

Agreed. Played my 2 games last night and couldn't be bothered to figure the other list out for the 2nd game, so I stuck with the 1st list.

Up against CLT Mace and 4 Cluster Torrents with shield. Range control was tricky for the Storm and Feroph, keeping them out of the Cluster double tap, but maintaining their impact and teamwork. Got it right in the 1st game and smashed them silly, losing only Sabacc and a couple shields, while Maarek hunted Mace and eventually killed him.

Got it wrong in the 2nd. Only 1 Cluster charge was spent over both games but avoiding it got me too spread and let the Torrents off the hook. Had to change targets a couple times and failed to score enough points on them to win before we jacked it in a turn or 2 early. Only needed to get a hit on either of the most damaged to take it and win by a point but couldn't get them in arc on the last turn. With half of Feroph and Sabacc gone, his Shield Upgrades clinched it, basically.

Didn't help that I repeatedly had to spend the x1s locks to make up for dodgy rolls. Action efficiency goes down the pan when Feroph is either blocked or slooping and locks are needing to be spent.

Really like the list overall. Keeping Sabacc alive is a bit of a problem but he provided a strong bait and punched really hard before he went. So still more or less earns his points in that role, since he was the only ship I lost in both games. Mace went for him, which meant Maarek could go for Mace.

However, I also learned that of the 2 upcoming HS tourneys we have, 1 is now Extended and the other is fully booked. So we probably won't be taking this list anyway, now it's actually finalized

Because Extended = Echo