Hi to all!

We are continuing with Player Card Review series . Today, we are going to watch closer at Conflict at the Carrock .

Link: https://visionofthepalantir.com/2019/04/24/player-card-review-conflict-at-the-carrock/

I just remind you, what's all about (skip it, if you have already read the article from Leadership sphere):

I made a deep analysis of each player card, mention the positives and negatives of each card, possible combos and synergies and overall conclusion from my point of view. I set the goal of describing each card in at least 450 words, in 500 words at the best. It's written in "progression mode", and it's because of 1) new players, who wanna to start this game from Core set in progression style, 2) the progression mode seems to me more challenging than "normal style" with accessible all cards from all expansions and adventure packs. I wanted to create such complex and detailed reviews because I think it's rare material in LOTR LCG community. And I think that each card, no matter how strong or weak, deserves own attention, not only that cards we usually use in decks.

Do you agree with reviews or do you have another opinion? I'm looking forward to your own observations, ideas and experiences with cards from this pack.

Thank you for your support!

Silblade

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It’s a Tactic analog of Sneak Attack with the difference that Gandalf remains during the whole round, instead of one concrete phase

The difference is bigger than that, with born aloft you have to pay the full cost for Gandalf, where Sneak attack only cost 1. And you have to play him in the planning phase, where sneak attack can be use in an emergency case.

I don't find Longbeard map maker useless. With Dain, he is a 2 2 1 3 for 3. And his ability let you adjust you willpower amount when you know exactly how many you need, and can help you to explore the active location if you lack of 1 or 2 willpower, for example.

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In other words, your character will become completely immune to shadow cards without any exceptions

Isn't there some shadow effects which says "this effect can't be canceled" ? I'm pretty sure I already seen 1 or 2.

In addition to the previous post I would add the following:

Frodo's ability is limited to once per round, so if a shadow effect deals lethal damage like the one of Wolves from Mordor, you need to use Frodo's ability to survive the shadow effect only to be killed by the attack itself.

Dúnedain Warning for me would be at least a five star card, one of the best cards in the whole cycle. Every leadership deck should include three copies, Beregond is still a few cycles away.

Second Breakfast can be used to get some cards back after discarding them to Éowyn, the more cards discarded the better. In later cycles there will be many more attachments worth getting back (Cram, Miruvor, Ranger Provisions etc).

The Beorning Beekeeper can be brought into the game with a Skin changer from the latest cycle, but that is a long way to go. The best use of him would be in conjunction with Sneak Attack, when you need a damage on many low health targets, so probably rather in a 4 player game of the Seventh Level from the next Deluxe expansion, though the Longbeard Orcslayer would be a better target, as he stays for the rest of the phase and can be used for other effects.

Éomund once saved my butt by readying my other Rohan characters due to dying to a Necromancer's Reach, so the following Exhaustion whiffed. His willpower to cost ratio is also better than most questing allies from the core set and mirkwood cycle, as I have written before.

Burning Brand does not make Dark Knowledge useless: When you are attacked by several enemies and your torch wielder can only defend one attack, you might check whether one of the shadow effects can be savely defended without cancellation or even be taken undefended.

4 hours ago, Miceldars said:

Isn't there some shadow effects which says "this effect can't be canceled" ? I'm pretty sure I already seen 1 or 2.

Hatred Rekindled from the Woodland Realm and Blazing Grip from Shadow and Flame Nightmare would be the only cardd I know of, of which the shadow effect can never be canceled. Apart from that shadow cards dealt to the Balrog of Journey in the Dark are immune to player card effects.

1 hour ago, Amicus Draconis said:

Apart from that shadow cards dealt to the Balrog of Journey in the Dark are immune to player card effects.

Also in Fire in the Night one of the side quests makes shadow cards dealt to Dagnir immune to player cards effects and their effects cannot be canceled.

30 minutes ago, Alonewolf87 said:

Also in Fire in the Night one of the side quests makes shadow cards dealt to Dagnir immune to player cards effects and their effects cannot be canceled.

In addition, cards dealt to the witch king in Pelennor Fields are immune to player card effects.

There are very few shadow cards that are immune themselves, but there are a few enemies that make their shadow cards immune

Thanks for reminding me. Is there actually a difference between immune to player card effects and cannot be cancelled?

If something is "Immune to player card effects," it also cannot be cancelled. "Cannot be cancelled is usually just used for when revealed effects on treacheries.

Question off on a tangent here. If a when revealed effect has 'cannot be cancelled,' does The Door is Closed or Black Riders Frodo (or the upcoming master ring) still work? I feel like it should, because it cancels the card, not the when revealed effect.

4 hours ago, Amicus Draconis said:

Thanks for reminding me. Is there actually a difference between immune to player card effects and cannot be cancelled?

Immune to player card effects is generally used on enemy cards. But you can still cancel their shadow card

Frodo has a powerful and useful ability, but it annoys me that it works at cross-purposes with Sam's ability. The strongest Hobbit decks want enemies below their engagement cost, but Frodo/SpPippin/Fatty work against that -- but Frodo is the most useful of the three.

Dunedain Warning deserves five stars. 1 defense for 1 resource, especially a leadership resource, is a good deal generally -- now add to it that it is non-restricted, not limited to one, and transferrable. It's my favorite Signal, Dunedain Mark is #3 (Dunedain Remedy is #2).

Second Breakfast is (as you note) usually a sideboard card -- multiplayer against deck-milling quests is a sweet spot. It's also handy in conjunction with disposable attachments, which are mostly not in leadership.

Agree that Beorning Beekeeper is overpriced and awful, at least until you get Skinchanger -- actually it's still awful and overpriced then, but at least you can see it in a deck. I don't even like this in direct damage decks.

Getting Gandalf or Beorn back in hand is nice with Born Aloft, except for having to pay for them again. Once you can play Eagles cheaply with Radagast's staff, it may be worth including an Eagles deck for Meneldor or Descendant of Thorondor. Free attachments are also useful for a Dale deck, but there are more useful ones around.

Eomund is curious in that you can't intentionally discard him, in a nation of self-discarding allies. But the obvious way to lose him on purpose is to chump block somebody tough with him. This can be worth doing frequently if you have a way of getting him back from the discard, because mass-readying is useful. Yes, a lot of rohirrim allies aren't useful for both attack and questing, but a lot of Rohan heroes are (especially with some of the Rohan attachments). Another place where Eomund can be devastating is in a Gondor/Rohan fellowship after a play of Mutual Accord -- unlike Rohan, Gondor *does* have global willpower and attack bonuses, and Eomund readies *all* Rohan, not just your own.

Nor Am I Stranger is weaker than other trait-granting cards (the more recent bunch also draw a card, so you don't use deck space for them), but the main long-term problem is that while Rohan has some good attachments, they're aren't good enough (or restrictive enough) that you'd want to make someone Rohan *just* to use them.

A Burning Brand is without peer if you have or create a lore-defending hero. I don't use it much on lore allies, with the exception of Wellinghall Preservers.

Longbeard Map-Maker isn't *immediately* as useful as he will be with Dain, and it's true that Lore is more known for cards than resources. But it's not unusual for lore resources to outpace cards as quest progresses, especially in lore/leadership decks, and Longbeard's *unlimited* resource to willpower conversion is extremely powerful and flexible.

11 hours ago, Onidsen said:

Question off on a tangent here. If a when revealed effect has 'cannot be cancelled,' does The Door is Closed or Black Riders Frodo (or the upcoming master ring) still work? I feel like it should, because it cancels the card, not the when revealed effect.

The two cards you mentioned can indeed cancel a "cannot be cancelled" card, for the very reason you stated. They would also ignore Doomed, Surge etc.

Perfecto, guys, thank you for your responses!

@Miceldars Correct with that Born Aloft vs. Sneak Attack , I see Sneak Attack as a more practical and flexible choice and you don't have to wait for the concrete phase.
When Dáin comes to a game, it increases the usefulness of Longbeard Map-Maker from the view of stats, at least. Still, Dáin cannot repair his very expensive ability.
I didn't count with the existence of shadow cards, which cannot be canceled (because I haven't met that shadow card yet). In that case, A Burning Brand is short, but the number of such cards is minimal.
Thank you also for the rule-clarification about immune cards and shadow effect, which cannot be canceled, it's quite important to know it.

@Amicus Draconis @dalestephenson You both guys have similar observations, so I'll respond to you simultaneously.:)
It's interesting you both agree with 5 stars for Dúnedain Warning . Good to know that the defending potential, cheapness, and flexibility of this card you evaluate very high. I like this Signal. Sometimes, I don't find the free place for this attachment and its absence isn't somehow very crucial to me if I have some good defender(s).
Second Breakfast tested, I wasn't persuaded to use it more in my decks, still Erebor Hammersmith is the champion in this category.:)
Born Aloft is born for Gandalf and Descendant of Thorondor . I didn't mention Descendant for too many spoilers, but I agree - if you have a sufficient amount of Tactic resources or you have Radagast , 2 damage from its ability is very good.
The ability of Éomund could be used in the case of an emergency when you really need some "bodies", which would defend attacks of enemies. So the role chump blocker the Rohan allies can fulfill, but otherwise, their attacking and defending (not chump-blocking) potential is quite low. With some exceptions, like Elfhelm or some Rohan heroes. But in the case of Elfhelm, you probably let him ready during the questing phase, so he will stay ready even without the Éomund's ability.
I meant that if you would choose between A Burning Brand and Dark Knowledge , A Burning Brand wins unquestionably. It doesn't have any debuff (you just need to have some Lore character) and you completely cancel (without some exceptions mentioned above) that shadow effect. If you run both cards simultaneously, then it's good to know about shadow cards of more enemies, because A Burning Brand can't be everywhere. But for that, I would rather use form the Spirit sphere Hasty Stroke or other alternatives and really I don't need the presence of Dark Knowledge in mine decks. My personal opinion.:)

I'm also curious, if you agree with the category of MOST ENRICHED SPHERE, which I thought it will cause the raising of questions kind of "why" and so on.:) Conflict at the Carrock was hard for me to evaluate form the view of most enriched sphere, because there aren't many good cards. And if some appear, the second card totally devalues the benefits for a given sphere. I was thinking seriously about Lore sphere, just because of the presence of A Burning Brand, but Longbeard Map-Maker would make this choice very strange, maybe illogical. Same for Spirit sphere, where we have only good Frodo, but the rest of Spirit cards... hmm, very bad. The neutral sphere was the last choice, because I see Song of Wisdom as a good Song card, primarily because of the help to Lore sphere and that you don't need necessarily to include as much Lore heroes as possible.

If I have a defending hero and leadership I pack 3x Dunedain Warning. If my defense strategy is chump blockers or strong ally defenders I don't. In that respect it's rather like Burning Brand -- you always want Burning Brand *if* you are relying on a lore defender. But if you're chumping you don't, and if you're using a non-lore hero defender, it may or may not be worthwhile to lore-ify him with Song of Wisdom or some other card (e.g. Narvi's Belt for dwarves).

Looking from a strictly progressive standpoint can hide the utility of a card. In the case of Eomund, his 2 willpower for 3 resources is actually quite attractive, given the alternatives at this point of the game -- but as the card pool expands it will be increasingly unimpressive. However, his ability becomes increasingly useful as Rohan expands. As of Conflict of Carrock about the only Rohirrim who is worth questing and attacking is Theodred, and with only 2 attack that's not very compelling. But as the card pool expands you get a *lot* of Rohan allies and heroes you might want to quest and ready, or defend and be readied -- Spirit Eowyn among them if she's packing Herugrim or Golden Shield. You also get a hero that lets you play Eomund cheaper and two different cards (Guthwine and Gamling) who can get Eomund back from the dead.

Yes, Longbeard Map Maker's ability is expensive if your goal is to make him have 3 willpower base every turn. But he's not like Dwarven Sellsword where you have to keep paying him or he goes away. You can decide exactly how much to spend (or whether to spend at all) after staging -- just the amount you need to quest successfully, or break even, or clear a location etcetera -- most of the time you likely won't want to spend anything, and the resources will pile up to spend in a big quest push. If I think back on all the lore-using decks I've played, it's been *far* more common for me to end a quest with a pile of unusable resources than with a pile of cards I can't afford to play.

Which sphere was most enriched? I think Lore -- much as I love Dunedain Warning, A Burning Branch is one of the best cards in the game. And the fact that Song of Wisdom came in this pack also benefits Lore.

I attempt to include Dúnedain Warning to every Leadership deck as well, but with expanding cardpool, I see that as more and more harder because of incoming of new and great cards (especially with Dwarrowdelf cycle, where you try to include cards, which have synergies with Dwarves ).
I have forgotten to mention Longbeard Map-Maker in combo with Dáin, where 2-2-1-3 for 3 cost isn't bad, additionally, you can pay resource for increasing for his Willpower. But in practice: when I have called him to a board, he served as the defender for me. He at least resists for 2-3 rounds against weak enemy's attack. But still, 3 cost for 2 rounds in game - even that isn't a perfect job for Longbeard Map-Maker. I think, that appearing of Erebor Record Keeper is the final "game over" for Longbeard Map-Maker - for 1 cost 1 Willpower (but generally 2 Willpower, because Dáin is often close ) Erebor wins on the whole line - he is a cheap, available and practical ally.
It's a truth that Lore is enriched more because of the Song of Wisdom existence, which aims directly for helping to Lore sphere. On the other hand, it was quite a good opportunity to promote Neutral sphere, which in the future isn't somehow beneficial for us, at least in the near future.
Fortunately, the next pack will be easier from this point of view due to the presence of more quality cards.:) Conflict at the Carrock was, to be honest, has very poor player cards.:(

In which way are you playing the game? Solo one-handed, solo two-handed, multiple players, mono sphere, dual sphere, or even more? When you have more deckspace for fewer spheres available, it is easier to get more cards in.

On 4/27/2019 at 3:19 PM, Silblade said:

I have forgotten to mention Longbeard Map-Maker in combo with Dáin, where 2-2-1-3 for 3 cost isn't bad, additionally, you can pay resource for increasing for his Willpower. But in practice: when I have called him to a board, he served as the defender for me. He at least resists for 2-3 rounds against weak enemy's attack. But still, 3 cost for 2 rounds in game - even that isn't a perfect job for Longbeard Map-Maker. I think, that appearing of Erebor Record Keeper is the final "game over" for Longbeard Map-Maker - for 1 cost 1 Willpower (but generally 2 Willpower, because Dáin is often close ) Erebor wins on the whole line - he is a cheap, available and practical ally.

Erebor Record Keeper is fantastic, probably my favorite dwarf ally in a dwarf deck. 2 willpower for 1 resource is fantastic if you use him as a quester, the readying ability is terrific, and most important you can get him down quickly to get to the magic 5-dwarf threshold.

But he has little in common with the map-maker, aside from also using lore resources for his ability. That could be seen as competition -- but it also can be seen as *complimentary*. If you have plenty of lore resources (something not that difficult to do with dwarves), you can use ERK to ready dwarves for combat, and use LMM if you need extra questing. But from a body perspective, 2-2-1-3 for 3 cost serves a different function than a 2 wp dwarf who can't attack or defend. ERK helps enable the swarm, but he simply can't partake in a Dain-fueled mass attack. If you're using LMM as only a quester and ERK as only a quester than clearly the latter is much cheaper -- but doing that makes LMM's ability available and makes ERK's ability available.

As a straight body the Map-Maker killer, as you already noted, is Erebor Hammersmith. Same stat line, 1 less cost. And I think he's clearly more popular in a swarm deck. I'll agree the 3-cost LMM isn't an ideal fit for a swarm deck, because even though 2-2-1-3 and a useful ability for 3 isn't bad at all, you're trying to get as many dwarves out as quickly as possible (3 cost works against this) and when you're set up you have overwhelming willpower anyways. (Though in a leadership/lore/lore dwarf decks, you probably want all the green dwarfs you can get). I see a better fit with Bifur or Gloin/Thorin + Narvi's Belt where you can expect to have plenty of lore resources -- Steward of Gondor on a lore dwarf is also big. Before WANI was nerfed you could get *lots* of resources very easily from a swarm, and LMM is the only card that can directly turn a ton of resources into questing willpower.

See for an example this deck, using cards only through Khazad-Dum:

https://ringsdb.com/decklist/view/970/khazad-dm-glin-s-song-1.0

It's part of a fellowship so that Narvi's Belt isn't the only way for Gloin to get lore, but the premise of the deck is to generate lore resources with shadow-proof gloin and dump them into LMM.

On 4/28/2019 at 10:54 AM, Amicus Draconis said:

In which way are you playing the game? Solo one-handed, solo two-handed, multiple players, mono sphere, dual sphere, or even more? When you have more deckspace for fewer spheres available, it is easier to get more cards in.

In testing games (for the purpose of writing reviews of some cards) I play solo 2-handed monosphere decks. In real skirmishes, I play solo 2-handed mix-sphere decks, most often with two dual-sphere decks, depends on the concrete decks.

5 hours ago, dalestephenson said:

Erebor Record Keeper is fantastic, probably my favorite dwarf ally in a dwarf deck. 2 willpower for 1 resource is fantastic if you use him as a quester, the readying ability is terrific, and most important you can get him down quickly to get to the magic 5-dwarf threshold.

But he has little in common with the map-maker, aside from also using lore resources for his ability. That could be seen as competition -- but it also can be seen as *complimentary*. If you have plenty of lore resources (something not that difficult to do with dwarves), you can use ERK to ready dwarves for combat, and use LMM if you need extra questing. But from a body perspective, 2-2-1-3 for 3 cost serves a different function than a 2 wp dwarf who can't attack or defend. ERK helps enable the swarm, but he simply can't partake in a Dain-fueled mass attack. If you're using LMM as only a quester and ERK as only a quester than clearly the latter is much cheaper -- but doing that makes LMM's ability available and makes ERK's ability available.

As a straight body the Map-Maker killer, as you already noted, is Erebor Hammersmith. Same stat line, 1 less cost. And I think he's clearly more popular in a swarm deck. I'll agree the 3-cost LMM isn't an ideal fit for a swarm deck, because even though 2-2-1-3 and a useful ability for 3 isn't bad at all, you're trying to get as many dwarves out as quickly as possible (3 cost works against this) and when you're set up you have overwhelming willpower anyways. (Though in a leadership/lore/lore dwarf decks, you probably want all the green dwarfs you can get). I see a better fit with Bifur or Gloin/Thorin + Narvi's Belt where you can expect to have plenty of lore resources -- Steward of Gondor on a lore dwarf is also big. Before WANI was nerfed you could get *lots* of resources very easily from a swarm, and LMM is the only card that can directly turn a ton of resources into questing willpower.

See for an example this deck, using cards only through Khazad-Dum:

https://ringsdb.com/decklist/view/970/khazad-dm-glin-s-song-1.0

It's part of a fellowship so that Narvi's Belt isn't the only way for Gloin to get lore, but the premise of the deck is to generate lore resources with shadow-proof gloin and dump them into LMM.

Interesting deck and chosen strategy. Never think about this option for Longbeard Map-Maker . When you have attached Steward of Gondor to a hero, the original idea of LMM using can be fulfilled. It's funny, however, that even with Steward of Gondor onto Lore hero I have experienced the scarce of resources, mostly due to paying many cards with 3- and higher cost. That's a truth for strictly progression style of playing in monosphere environment. In real skirmishes, I make a deck with regard to their cost (in general, most cards with 0-2 costs, less cards with 3 cost and few cards with 4 and higher cards). However, the progression Lore sphere offers us many expensive cards, so you almost can't avoid to include many of them. Longbeard Map-Maker for 3 cost can be utilized with Dáin Ironfoot , like other "bad Dwarves" (if you remember, I have already pointed out Brok Ironfist working with Dáin gets 3-3-1-4, what is almost the stats of Beorn for the same cost and I consider Beorn as an expensive, but very strong and proper ally). But outside of Dáin's help, I can't call him to any of my deck.

Following Beorn's Path, I used a LeAragorn/Theodred/LoDenethor deck through many cycles. My ideal start has Steward of Gondor and Rivendell Minstrel in hand, so I can put SoG on Denethor, play the Minstrel and grab Song of Kings, and then lore/leadership resources are plentiful from then out. (I also have a Song of Wisdom in the deck, so either way the SoG bearer will end up being able to play both leadership and lore).

What's *not* plentiful in that setup is cards, unless Gleowine or (much later) Rod of the Steward shows up, and I never ran 3x of either. I didn't run LMM either, but I certainly could have used him a bunch of times. Yes, Lore has expensive cards and Leadership does also -- but a leadership/lore deck generates 3 resources per turn -- five with Steward of Gondor -- and draws just one card per turn by default. If you're running Bilbo or Beravor that's one thing, but there are a *lot* of lore heroes that don't provide card draw, and there's a lot of lore cards that cost less than 3. I don't think it's a given that a lore deck will be resource poor and card rich -- that clearly can be the case, but it doesn't have to be the case. LMM is a poor fit for a draw-heavy lore deck, but is potentially very useful for a resource-heavy lore deck -- and that deck can be constructed *early* in the game in combination with leadership.

In short, I think you're right in saying that LMM's ability is a poor fit for a stereotypical (draw-heavy, expensive card) lore deck. But the ability is a *very* good fit for a resource heavy deck, and is a very powerful and flexible ability -- if Lore Glorfindel had this ability instead of his healing, he'd be much more popular. Despite its cost, I think LMM is most useful in a leadership/lore deck and *not* a monosphere lore deck, and if playing progression style wouldn't recommend playing *any* monosphere deck solo at least until the third cycle.