22 hours ago, SavouryRain said:

I think HP Dooku is a more unfun ship than Hate. They got rid of Whisper's cloaking after an attack, only to give it to a ship that can get 4 force.

******* about that particular card aside, the ship doesn't seem OP or UP. I would agree with costing Hate based on agility though. It is pretty discouraging to see Maul use 4 or 5 force in a turn of him shooting just to see him get back to full after shooting at him.

I don't consider it an NPE though. Mostly I'm more sad that the light side doesn't have a power to regen force.

HP Dooku is limited by slower Force Regen.

But overall, Maul and Dooku are just about perfect. If anything, the generic and O-66 could use a price cut. As others noted, Hate could probably benefit from being priced by the base Force power of the pilot (it's way better on Vader, Kylo and Maul than on the Inquisitor), but that's all.

On 4/24/2019 at 10:56 AM, Ikka said:

Pretty much my Sidekicks list, but with Hate on Dooku and Outmaneuver on Grievous.

I find Dooku needs the recharging more than the I7 shooting, as I use up a lot of Force with Dooku's ability/dice modding. It is a super fun list to fly.

I've been dabbling with that list on Vassal after seeing it at the FLGS, and it's the main reason I'm debating buying into Separatists. It's just so much fun, and has made me reconsider my poor opinion about IN3 and IN4 viability. Outmaneuver Grievous is probably the most dangerous flanker in the game. Ignore him, and he's rolling three attack dice with two rerolls while reducing your greens by 1. Attack him, and he has 7HP backed by two green dice and a defensive reroll if you're out of his firing arc. Plus, that usually means ignoring the two Sith Lords that make up the meat of the list.

1 hour ago, Force Majeure said:

Did you use these Probe Droids? Were they effective? I didn't find them to be all that helpful when I've deployed them, but when the Hyena comes to town I'll be launching them left and right.

Setting up the alpha were all your ships get locks is as good as 1st edition long range scanners or having jendon in your squad for 1 round. That first strike i brought an arc to 1 hull left. Later in game 066 was able to lock anakin from it, which he used two rounds later for the shot to put anakin at half points.

I hate wasted actions. Kraken keeps calcs, probes let you lock a ship you wouldnt be able to. It turns those meaningless turn arounds where you have no shots and out of range for locks into something. Once or twice a game use, but provides a big impact.

I played against a Dooku Maul list both with proton torps and other goodies with probe droids. Setup a mean alpha for the siths.

One thing I've noticed watching a few battles/battle-reports is that most people seem to make, in my opinion, an error when using the two Sith pilots, specifically an error in choosing actions. Multiple times I've seen players choose to Focus with an Infiltrator rather than take a Target Lock on a ship that they then will attack in the Engagement Phase; this seems to me to be a waste of the Force that the pilot has. Given that the Force charges allow for dice mods, why would you choose to take a redundant dice mod rather than a TL? Even if you want to save, say 2 Force charges on Maul for a second attack, taking a TL on your primary/1st target and then having the option to modify that re-roll with a single force seems like it would be mathematically better than simply modifying the original roll with a Focus. Am I missing some strategy/gameplan with the actions that I see others taking?

My biggest issue running Maul is just... never getting actions. He's so easy to block, especialy when you have to red-roll to arc dodge.

Not being able to take Expert Handling hurts, but Hate makes it worth it. I'd literaly never Focus, unless I already had a lock.

12 hours ago, PhantomFO said:

Outmaneuver Grievous is probably the most dangerous flanker in the game. Ignore him, and he's rolling three attack dice with two rerolls while reducing your greens by 1. Attack him, and he has 7HP backed by two green dice and a defensive reroll if you're out of his firing arc. 

He costs as much as Poe at that point... and unlike Poe, he can't score I5/I4 initiative kills or carry you through the lategame.

The price of upgrades on Grievous seem extremely inefficient. I usually just run Trick Shot and nothing else.

The good General Grievous needs a way to get rid of stress. I ran the B-22 for the first time last night and woe unto you if you do a red 3 hard or linked action. His Blue moves stink!

55 minutes ago, Force Majeure said:

The good General Grievous needs a way to get rid of stress. I ran the B-22 for the first time last night and woe unto you if you do a red 3 hard or linked action. His Blue moves stink!

Since Separatists are Extended only right now, you can use the Electronic Baffle as a mod, keeping Outmaneuver as the Talent and using the title to boost the hull and get the defensive rerolls. You can shed the stress at the cost of a hull, and since Grievous wants to be out of arc anyway, you have some breathing room.

18 minutes ago, feltipern1 said:

Since Separatists are Extended only right now, you can use the Electronic Baffle as a mod, keeping Outmaneuver as the Talent and using the title to boost the hull and get the defensive rerolls. You can shed the stress at the cost of a hull, and since Grievous wants to be out of arc anyway, you have some breathing room.

What do you mean? Separatists are hyperspace legal.

Ive been flying this 80 point Maul alongside 5 I1 vultures with esc's.

Hate, Grevious, Dooku.

It has the options for some rather fun shenanigans, but will still melt under fire so requires careful flying.

At a recent tournament I went up against Kath with outmaneuver. Who cost the same as Maul. (Opponent also had 5 binayres, meaning all our ship costs were the same).

I havent done anything else with the Infiltrator yet, because I enjoy Maul so much. It feels like one of the few correctly costed big based ships.

Having hate lets me trigger dooku several times a turn occasionally, and i can see it being worth more on a ship with 10 health then on one with 5.

9 hours ago, Ikka said:

One thing I've noticed watching a few battles/battle-reports is that most people seem to make, in my opinion, an error when using the two Sith pilots, specifically an error in choosing actions. Multiple times I've seen players choose to Focus with an Infiltrator rather than take a Target Lock on a ship that they then will attack in the Engagement Phase; this seems to me to be a waste of the Force that the pilot has. Given that the Force charges allow for dice mods, why would you choose to take a redundant dice mod rather than a TL? Even if you want to save, say 2 Force charges on Maul for a second attack, taking a TL on your primary/1st target and then having the option to modify that re-roll with a single force seems like it would be mathematically better than simply modifying the original roll with a Focus. Am I missing some strategy/gameplan with the actions that I see others taking?

If you have dooku cloaked, taking a focus aint bad. You only get force from hate if damaged, so spending force to dodge an attack, plus you need 1 force to remove the cloak token in order to attack. Force isnt bad option in some instances.

9 hours ago, Ikka said:

One thing I've noticed watching a few battles/battle-reports is that most people seem to make, in my opinion, an error when using the two Sith pilots, specifically an error in choosing actions. Multiple times I've seen players choose to Focus with an Infiltrator rather than take a Target Lock on a ship that they then will attack in the Engagement Phase; this seems to me to be a waste of the Force that the pilot has. Given that the Force charges allow for dice mods, why would you choose to take a redundant dice mod rather than a TL? Even if you want to save, say 2 Force charges on Maul for a second attack, taking a TL on your primary/1st target and then having the option to modify that re-roll with a single force seems like it would be mathematically better than simply modifying the original roll with a Focus. Am I missing some strategy/gameplan with the actions that I see others taking?

Maul really wants the focus more, as you put perceptive copilot on him, double focus, and use your focus to modify your attack and you force to actually double attack. Dooku though you're right, always TL first, focus if nothing else is worth it.

On 4/26/2019 at 2:40 PM, Tk421doyouloveme said:

What do you mean? Separatists are hyperspace legal.

Yeah, I realized that after I tried to build them in Hyperspace on an idle whim just the other day. Missed the update, I guess :)

On 4/25/2019 at 12:10 AM, SavouryRain said:

I think HP Dooku is a more unfun ship than Hate. They got rid of Whisper's cloaking after an attack, only to give it to a ship that can get 4 force.

******* about that particular card aside, the ship doesn't seem OP or UP. I would agree with costing Hate based on agility though. It is pretty discouraging to see Maul use 4 or 5 force in a turn of him shooting just to see him get back to full after shooting at him.

I don't consider it an NPE though. Mostly I'm more sad that the light side doesn't have a power to regen force.

If he uses 4 force and gets it all back, you have nearly half pointed him? It's really not that strong a ship when it gets shot.

I do hope the non-force infiltrators get a nice price cut, as they're really little better than ARCs minus the aux arc. Being 11 points over the I 2 seems excessive

Plus, with a points drop, you could afford to use the non-force as potent support ships with kraken/dookcrew etc.

56 minutes ago, ficklegreendice said:

I do hope the non-force infiltrators get a nice price cut, as they're really little better than ARCs minus the aux arc. Being 11 points over the I 2 seems excessive

Plus, with a points drop, you could afford to use the non-force as potent support ships with kraken/dookcrew etc.

I was list-building for a local tournament yesterday and couldn’t come up with a justification for the non-force pilots. The dial seems balanced for having soft mods, and without it I can’t pull enough other ships into the list to feel viable.

I ended up running Hate Maul with Kraken WAT and 3x I3 ESC drones. My gut feel after 4 games is that Maul feels correctly priced in a beef meta, since after the first sweep in and engagement, he’s going to be bumping or pulling reds (or disengaging, ymmv). I’ve gotten a lot of use out of the 5k.

CIS dials are very strange and, even knowing that, caught several opponents by surprise...

If the lower initiative ships are going to be supporting (so as to not melt down in the first engagement), the generic and non-force limited should maybe cost more like a Reaper.

1 hour ago, ficklegreendice said:

I do hope the non-force infiltrators get a nice price cut, as they're really little better than ARCs minus the aux arc. Being 11 points over the I 2 seems excessive

Plus, with a points drop, you could afford to use the non-force as potent support ships with kraken/dookcrew etc.

They're a more nimble than ARCs and have 1 extra shield, so I could see them being a point or two more, but not much more. Otherwise they're so close to identical that the 11 point difference is just hilarious.

On 4/25/2019 at 5:37 PM, So Crates said:

I hear Nerf, Nerf, Nerf...

And I ask, what tournaments have Infiltrators won in this past month that I missed that is causing so much hate?

My issue isn't that Hate on an Infiltrator is overpowered, it's that it's so much better than the other force talents on that ship that it reduces list diversity. A scaling cost to Hate based on agility would reflect that it's more useful in this case.

If hate were more expensive here, I think I'd actually be ok with reducing the cost of infiltrators just a bit. The cost of the Hating Sith would increase, but all other options (including Sith with other talents) could decrease.

Maul and Dooku are costed just right AFAICT. Hate scaling with agility to 3/4/5/6 might be a solid fix.

Dual Infiltrators Best Infiltrators

2 hours ago, Covered in Weasels said:

A scaling cost to Hate based on agility would reflect that it's more useful in this case.

1 hour ago, thespaceinvader said:

Maul and Dooku are costed just right AFAICT. Hate scaling with agility to 3/4/5/6 might be a solid fix.

🤨 Agility instead of health pool or force pool due to it possibly keeping your force pool topped off without permitting allot of damage past what is needed to do so?

Agility is a rough analogue for health anyway.

And yes. The perils of using it on a low agility ship are that you wind up taking more damage than you need to regen, so it does have its flaws there too.

On 4/24/2019 at 7:05 PM, Blail Blerg said:

the belbukab feels week in comparison. Feels like the infiltrator should not have tactical slot.

This is the problem I am having too. I want to fly Grievous, but there are just better options out there for lists.

On 4/24/2019 at 10:05 PM, Squark said:

My immediate thought here is that I think hate should scale based on hp (or base size as a short hand). Vader and Kylo are only getting a few force out of hate, but large ships like the infiltrator or Hate-Kanan can gain tons of force over the course of the game, making it easy to top off force that's normally balanced on the premise you get one back a turn.

Maybe Hate should be scaled to the amount of Force the Pilot has. Hate on a 1 Force dude isn't bad, Hate on a 3 Force dude and be mod city.

I like the Infiltrator, I wanted it to be a medium base ship, I was sad when it wasn't. But I can see why they made the Infiltrator a large base. Imagine if it was a medium base....amazing...

Infiltrator shouldn't have the Tactical upgrade, more options for belbulab

Thematically, though, those Tactical Relays were often person-sized, which makes more sense on a large-based ship. Admittedly, all that was needed was the head (as per Rebels' "The Lost Commanders"), so there's an argument for the Belbullab to be carrying one and the Infiltrator to not be carrying one. Problem is, then, that the Separatists' most distinctive feature (the Relays), can only be carried on one current ship, which makes for extremely limited utility, and not something that you want when trying to define a faction. You may see the Infiltrator's slots change in July, since the Hyena will be out by then, but until then, I'm quite happy to have two options for carrying Relays, even if Kraken's the one that I more often choose.

It's still funny to me that Hate is like 1-3 points undercosted for 10hp pilots but it's all anyone has to say about the ship.