I was wondering everyone's thoughts on the Sith Infiltrator, since it has been a month since release. We're seeing a lot of lists in both Hyperspace and Extended with the Jedi, but not so much the Sith. What are everyone's views on the strengths and weaknesses of this ship?

Personally, I love it. Running the Sidekicks list with Maul, Dooku, and Grievous has been incredibly fun for me. I feel that the Force hijinks that you can do overcome the weak defense and make utilization of the very maneuverable dial, for a Large ship, much easier.

Not a fan of hate enabled force modded munitions carriers---I think they're bad for the game in a 1.0 combo wing heavy mod sort of way--but I won't deny it... I think the Infiltrator is super cool. It's a bit underpriced for what it can do with Hate behind Protorps. I'll never buy into prequel factions but I'm highly jealous of how they made this large base ship such a beast, while every scum large base ship is just garbage for competitive play currently. Enjoy the mod machine, Separatists, you scored big with this one. It's a keeper.

It is hands down the best CIS ship. Its efficiency with Sith + Hate is probably a little too much and we will see a points increase on Dooku and Maul. Especially considering that upgrade from O-66 to Dooku costs only 6 points and increasing the cost of Hate would harm any future Sith that does not have 10 hp ship to fly. How many points only FFG knows (or do they?)

The biggest strength of the ship is the ability to tank loads of damage while using it to get force. Extra nasty on Dooku who can fly to your face and jump in and out of the cloak, buying time for the rest of the squad to do the damage and getting rid of the stress from cloaking during the process. It also has great mobility for a large ship not only with the decloak but also 5K and solid blues, that you usually dont even need (el. baffle on Maul and Dooku ablilty).

Weaknesses are having only front arc, which can be used by Aces to outmaneuver the Infiltrator as well as being a large base ship, which generally still limits the movements. Also with only one green dice it can just explode if misplaced.

I also think there is an interesting idea with Tractor beam being utilized on the ship but I will need to test that properly. Another interesting upgrades for extended could be El. baffle on Maul and Freelance Slicer on Dooku and proximity mines (hyperspace legal) on Dooku when played "in your face".

Hate really makes them combo wing.

Theyre **** good. Not impervious like 1.0 Han. But pretty **** good.

Both mail and dookie are strong pilots.

the belbukab feels week in comparison. Feels like the infiltrator should not have tactical slot.

Good enough on their own, very good with 3 force, Hate and gas clouds.

I think that this ship will be hit with the nerf hammer in the next round of adjustments. Whether it's points, upgrade slots or both remain to be seen.

But at 68 points (hate stapled to the pilot card) Maul is a kick in the face on a lot of other ships. Not only does it have three force points and high total health pool, it also has a kick-*** dial and good offense. Combined with Hate you have a very tanky ship that will also be regenerating force when you focus on it.

About the only correctly priced large base ship.

2 hours ago, Lyynark said:

I think that this ship will be hit with the nerf hammer in the next round of adjustments. Whether it's points, upgrade slots or both remain to be seen.

But at 68 points (hate stapled to the pilot card) Maul is a kick in the face on a lot of other ships. Not only does it have three force points and high total health pool, it also has a kick-*** dial and good offense. Combined with Hate you have a very tanky ship that will also be regenerating force when you focus on it.

Why would you want to nerf it? Is it anywhere dominating anything? Does it feel like NPE?

8 hours ago, Cloaker said:

It's a bit underpriced for what it can do

2 hours ago, Lyynark said:

I think that this ship will be hit with the nerf hammer

what on earth

Only reason I could see a nerf is if the Hyena comes out crazy efficient on points. Right now we really don’t see any combinations that are outstanding for CIS, I wouldn’t say their ships are OP or a NPE. Yet.

I'm looking forward to sun fac maul and grievous personally.

My immediate thought here is that I think hate should scale based on hp (or base size as a short hand). Vader and Kylo are only getting a few force out of hate, but large ships like the infiltrator or Hate-Kanan can gain tons of force over the course of the game, making it easy to top off force that's normally balanced on the premise you get one back a turn.

The only thing that seems crazy underpriced to me is Hate. But that's not exactly Infiltrator specific, it's just happens to be the best platform for it.

Yeah, if there's an issue anywhere, it's with Hate - and to be honest, I think a lot of that is just that it's the only good Force Talent available at the moment.

17 minutes ago, NABLA_OPERATOR said:

Does it feel like NPE?

Maul with Hate isn't quite up to NPE but it is kind of close. When I have to give my opponent a benefit for doing what I need to do to win the game that is the makings of an NPE. Luckily the ship doesn't have a turret and is only one agility but that also refills force tokens faster. And it isn't Maul so much as Hate itself that I don't like, "hate" if you will.

Played against a Maul with Palpatine and Hate and it was a bit of a problem though I didn't approach it correctly and my red dice abandoned me and I got caught up in a wash of vulture droids. I think it is worth running Palpatine or Dooku just for the fourth force token. I don't think it is broken but does lean more to disagreeable than fun challenge.

I melted a Maul without Hate and a better approach last evening though.

4 minutes ago, Squark said:

My immediate thought here is that I think hate should scale based on hp (or base size as a short hand). Vader and Kylo are only getting a few force out of hate, but large ships like the infiltrator or Hate-Kanan can gain tons of force over the course of the game, making it easy to top off force that's normally balanced on the premise you get one back a turn.

Hate is probably a few points underpriced. For Maul/Dooku, it's definitely an auto-include at 3 points - it happens to be the only good force upgrade, and to work really well with the infiltrator specifically. Kylo and Vader also have access to 3 point Hate but tend to have an actual decision involved. Scaling with base size seems approximately fair, 3/4/5 for small medium large or something, as a proxy for HP.

That being said, its partially just because of list building constraints. CIS only has so many ways to put together a 200 point list, and lots of them leave approx. 9-15 point gaps where you can't squeeze in another Vulture, Vultures don't really want upgrades other than ESCs, and you don't really have any reason to not just spend the points on upgrades for your only ship with upgrade slots.

I find their performance very swingy.

The list below is pretty much Telgar 2.0. In terms of what it can do vs. the rest of the field in 2.0, it might be even better. If we were talking about the potential for Dengar and Tel to do this in 2.0, the forums would be burning right now...

Darth Maul (65)
Hate (3)
Tractor Beam (2)
Proton Torpedoes (12)
Chancellor Palpatine (14)
General Grievous (3)
Proximity Mines (6)
Shield Upgrade (4)

Count Dooku (61)
Hate (3)
Proton Torpedoes (12)
Proximity Mines (6)
Shield Upgrade (4)
Scimitar (4)
Total: 199

View in Yet Another Squad Builder 2.0

Maul with or without Hate is pretty easy to kill.

If any upgrade it can take is undercosted it's Greivous crew. Depending on the list it is always the same as or better than a sield upgrade and usually worth 2 or 3, potentially more.

48 minutes ago, thespaceinvader said:

I'm looking forward to sun fac maul and grievous personally.

Me too

Possibly Dooku instead of Maul.

I want to proxy up Sun Fac just to mess around with flying it. I want points now for a ship that won't be out until September. I sound quite entitled...

1 minute ago, thespaceinvader said:

Maul with or without Hate is pretty easy to kill.

For sure. He has 10 health and one agility. Shoot him at range 2 and he starts dying.

Just now, thespaceinvader said:

Depending on the list it is always the same as or better than a sield upgrade

This is true, but you also wouldn't typically pay for a shield upgrade on similar ships (ARC-170, Y-Wing, Falcon, etc), which means maybe he's just correctly priced for the ship as a result of it being the only ship he can go on.

The Infiltrator is a solid ship but isn’t broken. I love where it’s at - complements the rest of the faction well as it stands.

I've only played one game with it, and that without using Maul, so I'm interested in seeing what others make of it. I've got some ideas to try yet.

Infiltrators greatest asset is that dial. In good hands that ship can be places it has no right to. It's not OP, it's just a fast and somewhat tanky 3 dice primary with a lot of build options available. In the end, it's one AGI and if you put multiple arcs on it, it will take damage. Two turns of that and it will die.

Good enough to crush strange jank lists, not quite good enough to be a consistent competitor at the top tables of a tournament. It'll be worth watching as CIS gets more ships to pair with it, as I suspect that Hate on either of them is quite strong but the rest of CIS is kinda meh.