Arc Dodge 101

Not sure if anyone has mapped out where you will fail an Arc Dodge with 2nd Edition Barrel Rolls before.

I have never tried to and the exercise seems useful. Please correct what I get wrong here or explain how you approach it.

Moving Last 1v1:

• Arc Dodging is not difficult when you are moving last against 1 ship. You Move after someone, you boost roll out. Done.
• However...plenty of players (including myself) still mess it up and attempt a boost/roll that lands in arc ( typically stressed + no mods for their troubles ).
• I tend to Arc Dodge by practicing sighting where a Boost (&/or) Roll will land.
  • I depend on that more than any rule of thumb based on opponents position/arc.
  • If I can sight that reliably, I can do it on the fly during games and just line it up with where I think the arc line is.
  • Often if im not sure I just stay put and focus. Take the shot.
• All that said looking at "where" in arc allows you to get out of Arc at minimum makes for cool though questionably helpful images.
• If you are loosely lined up with the Front of your opponents base offset a bit you might have a chance to dodge. '
• Obviously you dont know where your opponent will be when you dial in your move. So its not guaranteed that you will "land" in the green zones in the images below. Thats because its still a game.
• Also should be just as obvious that the Green Zone as I refer to it here is alot wider to the left and right than what the images highlight.
• The tricky bit sometimes is knowing where you cant be. More specifically predicting where you can't be. ( Roughly Inside Range 2-3 lined up with the opponent after they have moved, wider area the further away you are )
• Images show a barrel roll boost which I find more difficult to "guess" correctly all the way through than a boost roll.
  • 
• To far forward and the bank boost will "bump". Identify that and you can boost the other way, don't and fail action in arc
  • 
  • What is cool in this specific example is the edge of the orange area that Soontir can get trapped is also the area he is more likely to bullseye and evade/focus.
  • 
• With just a barrel roll the "band" that allows an arc dodge is more narrow.
  • 
  • 
• Approaching from an angle saves "Re-position" Actions, key for winning games. So you can modify your dice or conserve Force Charges.
  • 
  • 
• If your goal for whatever reason is strictly to get out of arc, not worried about also taking a shot...
• Image below a barrel roll forward and away when straight on after a bank boost is more likely to land you out of arc than a barrel roll forward "towards" the opponent.
• This is contrived of course but you can see how close the margins are on the roll right in here. Even the roll out is risky.
  • 
• Much safer and easier to sight just to boost forward roll left out. No shot but less risk of defending.
• Alot of times what people mean by arc dodging is just opting out of arc without taking a shot until they stumble into repositiong out of arc to take a shot. At least thats normally how it happens for me in a 1v1.
  • 

Moving First 1v1:

• How do you fight Aces who are moving last 1v1? Two years in to playing xwing I am not sure I can explain this. I have done it, but rarely "intentionally".

• Pretty sure it becomes all about Getting Shots, not avoiding shots.
• You want to force some or all of the following to happen:
  • Trade Shots and do more damage than they do (worst case is suffering uncontested shots)
  • Force them to disengage so you can "chase"
  • Try to force them into a "mistake"
  • Create Safe Space
  • Force repositions ideally ones that end with your opponent being out of arc but not shooting at you. If they double re-position its like they are stressed making next turn easier.
  • Experienced players sometimes talk about "threatening" aces so they cant just approach in ideal space, range, and angle. Pretty sure that means point at them.
• Knowing where you would want to be to Arc Dodge while moving last gives you hints as to how to fly an Ace moving first.
• Using the sides of the board helps against Aces moving last as well. Corners and other Angles at minimum reduce the # of arc dodge options they have available.
• Approach with Rocks in the way of re-positions is also critical.
• Jumping range to take a shot, before the Aces ideal Arc dodge "turn" is useful. Often Aces will play cagey until they know they can get to the Green Areas.
• Players will often try to carefully set up the Arc Dodge turn, you can see it coming they will go "slower" or bank away from combat the turn before the arc dodge turn usually.
• You can take advantage of that by jumping into range while they are more likely to be in the Orange Areas above. Remember your goal is to force a trade.
• Obviously having wing mates changes the picture entirely. Allows you to set boxes basically, force a chase.
• Super Natural Reflexes, Advanced Sensors. Decloaks, Rear Arc Boosts, Multi Arcs etc. change everything about this dynamic, moving first is no longer as much of a problem so its slightly less interesting to think about or discuss in this specific context.
• Under normal circumstances alot depends on your opponents dial the better you know it the easier this will be
• Moving first you can somewhat create safe space by...
  • Setting up Blocking/Locking turns where you dont defend, followed by K-Turns
  • This is key setting up locks will give you a chance to do more damage than them if you force a trade or itll give you more freedom to threaten with red moves.
  • Go to the the spot directly in front of them where their slowest moves go or the spot they already are.
  • This can help you set up a "chase", this is dogfighting after all.
  • If you can get behind them its easier to chase them down and there is a chance they will panic and disengage longer than they should/need to, or they might not "hard turn" to shake you.
• Example:
  • X-Wings and Tie Advanced's are useful because they can "go slow" to keep arc on target, classic 1 forward to victory. Stays engaged longer to K-Turn at a more natural time.
  • Kylo and Soontir's two speeds make them vulnerable to blocks, they have to actively remember to carefully manage range and not to stress to keep the K-Turn Threat Available. Often having to settle for disengaging.
  • Fang Fighters have a similar "problem" but they actively want to be in arc at range 1 so it kinda flips things, but creates serious problems the turn after the R1 shot if anything is left alive.
  • Jedi have 1 banks but 2 forwards, lucky for them they rarely stress and can 5 K-turn which can put them entirely out of arc. Rarely has to disengage because they are rarely stressed, but can choose to recharge or recycle.
  • 

If that Kylo player stops showing his arc like a **** flashlight, he might actually hit somethin 😁

@Boom Owl great work and informational post.

Anyone have any thoughts on how to win more consistently with an Ace moving first against an Ace moving last?

@ Australia. You guys figured it out right?

@Morgan Reid ? I know in chatting with him about this event, he felt moving first against an opposing Anakin lost him the game in the top 4.

if your asking the ace is moving before you.

pull into the open and do the fastest k-turn you can manage. (at least a 4 k-turn) the ace probably wont go very fast or they might pass you. if you are at range 3 and they are in the appx center of your arc they wont make it out with a boost barrel-roll combo.

if your asking you are the ace and you are moving first

pull a k-turn on the round the enemy ace is most likely to k-turn you both are stressed and then you trade shots. (stay at range 3)

8 minutes ago, gennataos said:

@Morgan Reid ? I know in chatting with him about this event, he felt moving first against an opposing Anakin lost him the game in the top 4.

He would probably know.

I fully expect on average the Ace moving last will win.

Im just curious about ways to make it more difficult for the Ace moving last in a 1v1.

There have to be some kind of logical/systematic ways to approach it. General things to give you a slightly better chance even if the odds are obviously stacked.

Wondering how close my notes above about evening out the 1v1 are to the basics.

It's not always possible depending on the opposing ship, but I try to do a few things to put the odds as much as possible in my favor, although it's only trying to make the most of a bad matchup.

1.) Initially, I try to move where the opposing ship can't have an arc, at least not without a really questionable move. I use this turn to get a lock. It helps your few quality shots to matter, and makes red moves more useful.

2.) I try to engage at range where it's harder to get out of arc.

3.) I try to engage where there are some limitations due to obstacles, to make it easier to guess an opponent's moves and make repositioning less effective.

8 minutes ago, Biophysical said:

It's not always possible depending on the opposing ship, but I try to do a few things to put the odds as much as possible in my favor, although it's only trying to make the most of a bad matchup.

 1.) Initially, I try to move where the opposing ship can't have an arc, at least not without a really questionable move. I use this turn to get a lock. It helps your few quality shots to matter, and makes red moves more useful.

  2.) I try to engage at range where it's harder to get out of arc.  

 3.) I try to engage where there are some limitations due to obstacles, to make it easier to guess an opponent's moves and make repositioning less effective.

So #1 here makes a ton of sense to me and is something I have done in games before. Essentially the only risk is if they "call you" on the bump lock move turn and k-turn behind you early. Which is risky for them to begin with and super rare.

#2 I think is something I am really interested in trying to define. That range that makes it work feels awfully specific in terms of angle and starting points + dial options. i.e. if they have a 5 straight that range becomes super limited and you almost have to jump into range for a shot a turn earlier than feels correct. Seems like really aggressive play basically, to put them on the backfoot.

9 minutes ago, Boom Owl said:

So #1 here makes a ton of sense to me and is something I have done in games before. Essentially the only risk is if they "call you" on the bump lock move turn and k-turn behind you early. Which is risky for them to begin with and super rare.

#2 I think is something I am really interested in trying to define. That range that makes it work feels awfully specific in terms of angle and starting points + dial options. i.e. if they have a 5 straight that range becomes super limited and you almost have to jump into range for a shot a turn earlier than feels correct. Seems like really aggressive play basically, to put them on the backfoot.

Right, it's very context specific, but not terribly hard to work out if there's a good option available.

I'll also add 4.) Try to engage from a position that requires some kind of commitment to counter. This usually means you have to pull a red move, because that's where you get pointed at someone from a significantly different angle that you're starting position, but it can also be a difference in a hard 1+ roll vs a bank.

1 minute ago, Boom Owl said:

#2 I think is something I am really interested in trying to define. That range that makes it work feels awfully specific in terms of angle and starting points + dial options. i.e. if they have a 5 straight that range becomes super limited. 

I play a lot of lower init stuff so it's a bit more natural to me. It's basically the same story if you have a Fenn mirror and the opposing Fenn has the bid. You know their ace has to die so you basically build the box and try to force a Range 2 engagement where they are spending their actions on reposition or defense(or best case, none of them if you block them). Then point a bunch of guns at him and embrace dice chucking. In the case of of the mirror you are going for blocks at R2 with your lower init stuff and then setting up your hitter to swing hard with mods before their ace gets simultaneous fire. You cut off escape lanes and overlap arcs. Then just gun them down. R2 is a nice place to be since they aren't getting defense dice bonuses and it's less risk that they can init kill your stuff at R1.

Easier said than done obviously. Your opponent has more than one ship too and get's the ultimate vote on range engagements in most situations. As said above, the ship on the angle usually has a better vote on if they want to be in an arc or not. So with my lower init stuff I'll try and front (ok...fine...joust if you will) them on the parallel (think of the front of the base as the reference line) as best as I can. I want my front arc on roughly the same angle as what I think theirs will be with low init stuff. It makes it harder for them to hop out my arc if I call their move. It's a lot easier for them to BR out at range 1 than at R2 just due to the width of the cone as it gets closer to your base. So when in doubt, go one speed slower than you think instead of going for a block you don't if you'll get or not.

But at least you have a plan on what to do. If it comes down to end game you really don't want an ace vs ace with the other guy having final say in board state (not counting blocking).

7 minutes ago, Biophysical said:

  I'll also add 4.) Try to engage from a position that requires some kind of commitment to counter. This usually means you have to pull a red move, because that's where you get pointed at someone from a significantly different angle that you're starting position, but it can also be a difference in a hard 1+ roll vs a bank.

I find it interesting that in these scenarios all of a sudden the K-Turn starts to feel like a "critical" move.

It makes staying stress free as the Ace moving first that much more important so they simply cant know your dial options as well.

So much of the time I think people assume "k-turns" are bad and if your using them your doing it wrong, but thats obviously an over simplification.

It really highlights how strong white k-turns, passive mods, and stress free double repositions/linked actions can be.

Or if you dont have those how important it is not to abuse double actions that end in stress.

4 minutes ago, Boom Owl said:

I find it interesting that in these scenarios all of a sudden the K-Turn starts to feel like a "critical" move.

It makes staying stress free as the Ace moving first that much more important so they simply cant know your dial options as well.

So much of the time I think people assume "k-turns" are bad and if your using them your doing it wrong, but thats obviously an over simplification.

It really highlights how strong white k-turns, passive mods, and stress free double repositions/linked actions can be.

Or if you dont have those how important it is not to abuse double actions that end in stress.

That's why I love sloops. Kturns you know exactly where they will be a pointing. Sloops...not so much. If you have the vote of going either direction with a 2 sloop or the 4/5k it makes your opponents dial a bit more important. And the sloop/kturn is the one time that losing the bid vs another Anakin (or i6) is useful. You can setup your turn so that you can use his ability to shed the stress and reposition/token up more.

7 minutes ago, viedit said:

That's why I love sloops. Kturns you know exactly where they will be a pointing. Sloops...not so much. If you have the vote of going either direction with a 2 sloop or the 4/5k it makes your opponents dial a bit more important. And the sloop/kturn is the one time that losing the bid vs another Anakin (or i6) is useful. You can setup your turn so that you can use his ability to shed the stress and reposition/token up more.

I agree, and it's why I prefer Sloops to Trolls. The rolls point you in the same direction as the K-turn, but offset, so they're less commonly good for gaining different attack angles on the same position. Sloops change angle but keep the guns focused on the same general position, so its hard for the opponent to pick one to go after.

One more simple scenario you can use (elaborating on my point 1 above).

Say two fighters are facing off head to head. First fighter moves first and moves to a blocking position, then locks. 2nd fighter moves and bumps.

Next turn, the first fighter turns around with a red move. The 2nd fighter either turns around with a red move (and is at a -1 action advantage, statistical win for the 1st fighter) or disengages.

3rd turn of this simple engagement, the 1st fighter pursues a disengaging ship, gaining positional advantage for a little while until the 2nd fighter can reset.

Quite a few things have to go right still for the 1st fighter, but it's a chance.

7 minutes ago, Biophysical said:

One more simple scenario you can use (elaborating on my point 1 above).

 Say two fighters are facing off head to head. First fighter moves first and moves to a blocking position, then locks. 2nd fighter moves and bumps.

  Next turn, the first fighter turns aroun  d with a red move. The 2nd fighter either turns around with a red move (and is at a -1 action advantage, statistical win for the 1st fighter) or disengages.

  3rd turn of this simple engagement, the 1st fighter pursues a disengaging ship, gaining positional advantage for a little while until the 2nd fighter can reset.

   Quite a few things have to go right still for the 1st fighter, but it's a chance.

I refer to this as a Block Lock turn.

The tricky thing is against Jedi they often can 5k and be fully out of range which makes really slow K-Turns or Talons look "ok" again.

A friend of mine's favorite saying about arc dodgers:

"When in doubt, get out."

2 minutes ago, MegaSilver said:

A friend of mine's favorite saying about arc dodgers:

"When in doubt, get out."

It's me, the guy you're looking for.

Also, I should listen to my own advice more.

2 minutes ago, ObiWonka said:

It's me, the guy you're looking for.

57 minutes ago, Biophysical said:

One more simple scenario you can use (elaborating on my point 1 above).

Say two fighters are facing off head to head. First fighter moves first and moves to a blocking position, then locks. 2nd fighter moves and bumps.

Next turn, the first fighter turns around with a red move. The 2nd fighter either turns around with a red move (and is at a -1 action advantage, statistical win for the 1st fighter) or disengages.

3rd turn of this simple engagement, the 1st fighter pursues a disengaging ship, gaining positional advantage for a little while until the 2nd fighter can reset.

Quite a few things have to go right still for the 1st fighter, but it's a chance.

All of this is amazing and I fully agree. Its why earlier in a match, that might delve to ace vs ace, I make sure to try and aim for getting their endgame ace to 1/2 points. Obviously killing it is better if you get that chance, but I think most players will take limited risks, then play their ace more cagey if you take them up on those shots. You might take a couple bad shots, but if you can keep your ace at full, get theirs to half, or otherwise work the numbers to make their ace be the aggressor, the rest of all this is a lot easier (block/lock, etc) since they will likely be on the run otherwise. Unless its a mirror and equal points... then you really gotta use the rocks to get those positional advantages.

11 minutes ago, MegaSilver said:

****. Start over. I want to use that.

1 hour ago, Jyico said:

All of this is amazing and I fully agree. Its why earlier in a match, that might delve to ace vs ace, I make sure to try and aim for getting their endgame ace to 1/2 points. Obviously killing it is better if you get that chance, but I think most players will take limited risks, then play their ace more cagey if you take them up on those shots. You might take a couple bad shots, but if you can keep your ace at full, get theirs to half, or otherwise work the numbers to make their ace be the aggressor, the rest of all this is a lot easier (block/lock, etc) since they will likely be on the run otherwise. Unless its a mirror and equal points... then you really gotta use the rocks to get those positional advantages.

Yeah, the ship moving first has it a lot easier if they're up on points in some way or another. Its also not unreasonable to assume the ship moving first has some kind of point advantage, either. Even in a true mirror, if I'm moving first, my goal is to use my other ships to take out the opposing ace. An ace vs ace end game is a tactical failure on my part in that scenario, but I should have done some damage to that ace in the process.

On 4/23/2019 at 4:26 PM, Boom Owl said:

Arc Dodge 101

Not sure if anyone has mapped out where you will fail an Arc Dodge with 2nd Edition Barrel Rolls before.

I have never tried to and the exercise seems useful. Please correct what I get wrong here or explain how you approach it.

Moving Last 1v1:

• Arc Dodging is not difficult when you are moving last against 1 ship. You Move after someone, you boost roll out. Done.
• However...plenty of players (including myself) still mess it up and attempt a boost/roll that lands in arc ( typically stressed + no mods for their troubles ).
• I tend to Arc Dodge by practicing sighting where a Boost (&/or) Roll will land.
  • I depend on that more than any rule of thumb based on opponents position/arc.
  • If I can sight that reliably, I can do it on the fly during games and just line it up with where I think the arc line is.
  • Often if im not sure I just stay put and focus. Take the shot.
• All that said looking at "where" in arc allows you to get out of Arc at minimum makes for cool though questionably helpful images.
• If you are loosely lined up with the Front of your opponents base offset a bit you might have a chance to dodge. '
• Obviously you dont know where your opponent will be when you dial in your move. So its not guaranteed that you will "land" in the green zones in the images below. Thats because its still a game.
• Also should be just as obvious that the Green Zone as I refer to it here is alot wider to the left and right than what the images highlight.
• The tricky bit sometimes is knowing where you cant be. More specifically predicting where you can't be. ( Roughly Inside Range 2-3 lined up with the opponent after they have moved, wider area the further away you are )
  • 
• To far forward and the bank boost will "bump". Identify that and you can boost the other way, don't and fail action in arc
  • 
  • 
• With just a barrel roll the "band" that allows an arc dodge is more narrow.
  • 
  • 
• Approaching from an angle saves "Re-position" Actions, key for winning games. So you can modify your dice or conserve Force Charges.
  • 
  • 
• If your goal for whatever reason is strictly to get out of arc, not worried about also taking a shot...
• Image below a barrel roll forward and away when straight on after a bank boost is more likely to land you out of arc than a barrel roll forward "towards" the opponent.
• This is contrived of course but you can see how close the margins are on the roll right in here. Even the roll out is risky.
  • 
• Much safer and easier to sight just to boost forward roll left out. No shot but less risk of defending.
• Alot of times what people mean by arc dodging is just opting out of arc without taking a shot until they stumble into repositiong out of arc to take a shot. At least thats normally how it happens for me in a 1v1.
  • 

Moving First 1v1:

• How do you fight Aces who are moving last 1v1? Two years in to playing xwing I am not sure I can explain this. I have done it, but rarely "intentionally".

• Pretty sure it becomes all about Getting Shots, not avoiding shots.
• You want to force some or all of the following to happen:
  • Trade Shots and do more damage than they do (worst case is suffering uncontested shots)
  • Force them to disengage so you can "chase"
  • Try to force them into a "mistake"
  • Create Safe Space
  • Force repositions ideally ones that end with your opponent being out of arc but not shooting at you. If they double re-position its like they are stressed making next turn easier.
  • Experienced players sometimes talk about "threatening" aces so they cant just approach in ideal space, range, and angle. Pretty sure that means point at them.
• Knowing where you would want to be to Arc Dodge while moving last gives you hints as to how to fly an Ace moving first.
• Using the sides of the board helps against Aces moving last as well. Corners and other Angles at minimum reduce the # of arc dodge options they have available.
• Approach with Rocks in the way of re-positions is also critical.
• Jumping range to take a shot, before the Aces ideal Arc dodge "turn" is useful. Often Aces will play cagey until they know they can get to the Green Areas.
• Players will often try to carefully set up the Arc Dodge turn, you can see it coming they will go "slower" or bank away from combat the turn before the arc dodge turn usually.
• You can take advantage of that by jumping into range while they are more likely to be in the Orange Areas above. Remember your goal is to force a trade.
• Obviously having wing mates changes the picture entirely. Allows you to set boxes basically, force a chase.
• Super Natural Reflexes, Advanced Sensors. Decloaks, Rear Arc Boosts, Multi Arcs etc. change everything about this dynamic, moving first is no longer as much of a problem so its slightly less interesting to think about or discuss in this specific context.
• Under normal circumstances alot depends on your opponents dial the better you know it the easier this will be
• Moving first you can somewhat create safe space by...
  • Setting up Blocking/Locking turns where you dont defend, followed by K-Turns
  • This is key setting up locks will give you a chance to do more damage than them if you force a trade or itll give you more freedom to threaten with red moves.
  • Go to the the spot directly in front of them where their slowest moves go or the spot they already are.
  • This can help you set up a "chase", this is dogfighting after all.
  • If you can get behind them its easier to chase them down and there is a chance they will panic and disengage longer than they should/need to, or they might not "hard turn" to shake you.
• Example:
  • X-Wings and Tie Advanced's are useful because they can "go slow" to keep arc on target, classic 1 forward to victory. Stays engaged longer to K-Turn at a more natural time.
  • Kylo and Soontir's two speeds make them vulnerable to blocks, they have to actively remember to carefully manage range and not to stress to keep the K-Turn Threat Available. Often having to settle for disengaging.
  • Fang Fighters have a similar "problem" but they actively want to be in arc at range 1 so it kinda flips things, but creates serious problems the turn after the R1 shot if anything is left alive.
  • Jedi have 1 banks but 2 forwards, lucky for them they rarely stress and can 5 K-turn which can put them entirely out of arc. Rarely has to disengage because they are rarely stressed, but can choose to recharge or recycle.
  • 

What app/website did you use to make the map/ship/arc images?

13 hours ago, MegaSilver said:

A friend of mine's favorite saying about arc dodgers:

"When in doubt, get out."

Indeed. One key thing is that there's three distinct 'grades' of arc dodging.

• Range Control
  • Yes, this is arc dodging. Either pulling up short so your opponent is trying to engage at range 3 with two red dice versus 4 green ones, or powering in 'under' torpedo range, or into the bizarre 'safe spot' for protectorate aces where Old Teroch and Fenn Rau get Concordia Face-Off plus their pilot abilities, which more than makes up for any range bonus their opponent may get.
  • It's still pretty much accepting a shot to get one, but it can still be game-winning if you pull it off right.
• Break Off
  • "When in doubt, get out" is good advice. Especially if you're trying to disengage with just a barrel roll, avoiding being shot will often come at a cost of you not getting a shot either.
  • This is fine.
• Outmaneuver
  • The hardest to pull off since it usually requires either boost and barrel roll or an opponent distracted by someone else. "I get a shot and you don't" is the gold standard of arc dodging.
  • It's also a lot harder to pull off consistantly than people like to imply, because - as @Boom Owl implies - it usually involves stress, force or limited charge upgrades.

15 hours ago, Biophysical said:

1.) Initially, I try to move where the opposing ship can't have an arc, at least not without a really questionable move. I use this turn to get a lock. It helps your few quality shots to matter, and makes red moves more useful.

Good advice in a single-ship duel. One warning though is that arc-dodgers tend to be the archetype most often incapable of target locks (at least for imperial ships)

On 4/24/2019 at 12:26 AM, Boom Owl said:

Approaching from  an angle sa  ves "Re-position" Actions  , 

If you're thinking as a ship as an arc dodger, never approach from head-on if you can avoid it. If you do find yourself closing head-on, break off before engaging.

On 4/24/2019 at 12:26 AM, Boom Owl said:

How do you fight Aces who are moving la  st 1v1?

Remember that your opponent still doesn't know where you're moving. Boost/roll lets them 'shuffle' their position a lot but it's still only a 45' course change at most.

You can 'safely' position yourself in close. Most arc-dodgers don't have a 1 straight and many lack a 1 bank - and if they fly into you it's no shots all round. That's a good chance to pick up the aforementioned target lock, at which point you can k-turn and have modifiers and they (hopefully) cannot.

On 4/24/2019 at 12:26 AM, Boom Owl said:

ou want to force some or all of the following to happen:

• Trade Shots and do more damage than they do (worst case is suffering uncontested shots)
• Force them to disengage so you can "chase"
• Try to force them into a "mistake"
• Create Safe Space
• Force repositions ideally ones that end with your opponent being out of arc but not shooting at you. If they double re-position its like they are stressed making next turn easier.
• Experienced players sometimes talk about "threatening" aces so they cant just approach in ideal space, range, and angle. Pretty sure that means point at them.

This. Pressure on an ace player can force them to make a mistake. In a 1v1 with a higher initiative ace, you're trying to force them to 'waste' a turn - the ultimate goal is to position yourself such that they're smack bank in your 'kill zone' (where they can't dodge your arc) or to get behind them whilst they're stressed and can't turn around without breaking off first.

Generally that involves them 'wasting' a turn where they stress themselves.

A high speed break off 'past' them, and/or a red move

So be an Ace as a lower Initiative ship. First you have to judge their ship and how the can move. Sometimes you can just pull the old hit the brakes and they fly right by route.

Other things is dragging them through Asteroids and limit their ability to arc dodge.

Be unexpected with moves an obvious left turn situation where you can go right can create a reversal for you. The end up out of position and possibly spend several rounds trying to get back on things .