Hello fellow players and GMs,

Today's question is: What constitutes a "Melee combat check" and "Melee attack" in the Warrior signature ability?

Let's say my Aggressor/Niman character peforms the Draw Closer action. Could I follow an eventual successful strike with Unmatched Ferosity (UF)?

And regarding the additional attacks provided by UF, can I use Niman Technique to attack with Willpower? Or even use my additional attacks as additional Draw Closer activations? And if I miss, could I still use Force Assault (assuming I can use Niman Technique)?

Thank you for your insight.

Generally in FFG sourcebooks, any time you see Melee with a capital 'm' it is talking about when you are rolling against your Melee Skill, so Brawl, and Lightsaber checks do not count here. There are upgrades to the base power that changes the checks to either Brawl or Lightsaber checks.

I would rule it would work with Draw Closer if you have taken the Lightsaber check upgrade as Draw Closer reads " The character may take a Draw Closer action, making a Lightsaber (Willpower) melee combat check against one silhouette 1... ". (note the lower case 'm' here)

As a GM I would rule that you would be able to use Lightsaber(willpower) but you would not be able to do anything other than a standard attack, so Draw Closer could not be used.

1 hour ago, Varlie said:

Generally in FFG sourcebooks, any time you see Melee with a capital 'm' it is talking about when you are rolling against your Melee Skill [...]

Oooh, of course! I went full "video game rules" with Melee.

1 hour ago, Varlie said:

I would        rule it would work with Draw Closer if you have taken the Lightsaber check upgrade as Draw Closer reads " The  character may take a Draw Closer action, making a Lightsaber (Willpower) melee combat check against one silhouette 1... ". (note the lower case 'm'  here)

As a GM I would rule that you  would be able to use Lightsaber(willpower) but you would  not be able to do anything other than a standa  rd   attack, so Draw Closer could not be used.

So you would allow the "special" attacks to be followed by UF, but the extra attacks should be as "vanilla" as possible, right? Are you basing this decision on any particular wording?

I think the beginning of Draw Closer's description supports your interpretation, you have to take a special action that results in a Lightsaber(Willpower) check, it isn't something you can freely exchange whenever you're allowed a Lightsaber strike.

Therefore talents like Sarlacc Sweep also seems to be excluded from an UF chain. It's a shame, but it did appear too good to be true! Haha

Exactly, it's all in the wording of each talent. Draw Closer is a full action that is also a Lightsaber Attack/Check. Because it works as an attack, it qualifies for the Unmatched Ferocity requirements (if you have the Lightsaber upgrade).

I think it would be a bit overpowered if it allowed the alternate special actions on each step.

On 4/23/2019 at 1:24 AM, WickedWicks said:

Hello fellow players and GMs,

Today's question is: What constitutes a "Melee combat check" and "Melee attack" in the Warrior signature ability?

Let's say my Aggressor/Niman character peforms the Draw Closer action. Could I follow an eventual successful strike with Unmatched Ferosity (UF)?

And regarding the additional attacks provided by UF, can I use Niman Technique to attack with Willpower? Or even use my additional attacks as additional Draw Closer activations? And if I miss, could I still use Force Assault (assuming I can use Niman Technique)?

Thank you for your insight.

I've asked these questions and gotten answers from Sam Stewart,

Short answer is assuming that you have the upgrade that lets you switch the skill from Melee to lightsaber, you can use niman technique, draw closer, unmatched ferocity, ebb/flow, and empty soul together however

Draw closer let's you spend fp to gain extra successes to increase the odds of triggering the next attack but it doesn't allow you to target non adjacent characters with extra attacks from unmatched ferocity

You only get to add one set of force dice to the pool to split between ebb/flow and draw closer,

While using ebb/flow lets you use the empty soul talent to get free force points, they can be spent on ebb/flow but not draw closer

Niman technique works normally.

I hope that helps.

Btw for extra insanity use a fully modded dragite gem lightsaber, each time you trigger concussive 2 it extends the time they were staggered by 2 rounds so conceivably you could land 4 lightsaber attacks in a single round and they wouldn't be able to take actions for 8 rounds (the can still take maneuvers though)

20 minutes ago, EliasWindrider said:

Draw  closer let's you spend fp to gain extra successes  to increase the odds of triggering the next attack but it doesn't allow you to target non adjacent characters with extra attacks from unmatched ferocity 

Wait, so it can be used for every UF attack? Can you give me a bit of the rulling behind this so I can understand this talent better? Your question + answer might make it click for me, the raw text isn't cutting it.

24 minutes ago, EliasWindrider said:

Btw  for extra insanity use a fully modded dragite gem lightsaber, each time you trigger concussive 2 it extends the time they were staggered by 2 rounds so  conceivably you could land 4 lightsaber attacks in a single round and they wouldn't be able to take actions for 8 rounds (the can still take maneuvers though) 

This seems insaaaane! Haha

Here's what I could easily find in my gmail... I know it isn't everything that relates, I originally asked a massive chained set of questions but he said it was too complicated and asked me to resubmit them one at a time as separate questions.

Rules Question:
Hi assuming a warrior:shii-cho knight/niman-disciple build with the unmatched ferocity signature ability attached to shii-cho knight with the change skill lightsaber and change target upgrades... I believe Draw closer can be used against against an engaged target so even under a strict reading this should just let you add force dice -> successes to make chaining unmatched ferocity attacks a little easier, can you confirm that this is the case? Draw closer also potentially allows you to move adversaries at short or medium range to you. When using the the change target upgrade to unmatched ferocity, would the determination of legal targets for unmatched ferocity happen before or after the application of draw closer? If unmatched ferocity automatically stops when there are no targets engaged to you, could you when there was one engaged target left use draw closer on a different targets to draw more into engaged range and thus continue attacking with unmatched ferocity that way?

Hello Keith,

Your interpretation of Draw Closer as-written is correct. However, your GM could limit your use of this ability if they felt you were violating the spirit of the talent.

However, Unmatched Ferocity specifies that it only works against engaged targets. Therefore, the rest of the question is moot, because you can’t use Draw Closer to pull a target to your character, then continue to use Unmatched Ferocity against them. You also can’t use Draw Closer to pull someone in and then attack someone who was already engaged.

Hope that helps!

Rules Question:
Hi "A" question about the warrior's "unmatched ferocity" signature ability... the text says that the difficulty increases by 1 with each attack even if you change opponents, if you have 2 engaged opponents one with no special abilities (so it's a 2 purple difficulty) and the other with 3 ranks of adversary and 1 point of defense, what is the effect of attack order... to clarify if you attack the opponent with 3 ranks of adversary first and kill him is the attack against the the opponent without adversary facing 3 purple or 3 red and a black, or 2 purple 2 red and a black. If you instead attack the opponent without adversary first and kill him does your next attack against the opponent with adversary face 3 purple, 3 red and a black, or 2 red 2 purple and a black? Thanks for your time.

Hello Keith,

You would increase the difficulty by one for each other attack your character has made. It wouldn’t matter who the opponent is. I’m not exactly sure what your example is trying to get across, but it looks like you may be confusing increase and upgrade . Increasing difficulty means you add Difficulty dice to the pool. So if you attacked the target without Adversary first, then attacked the target with adversary, the second check’s difficulty would be three Challenge dice. In reverse, it would be three Difficulty dice.

Hope this helps!

Rules Question:
Hi Assuming a warrior:steel-hand-adept with the warriors "Unmatched ferocity" signature ability attached to it. if you have the change skill brawl upgrade and the repulsorfist cybenetic can you use the repulsor fist as one attack made as part of unmatched ferocity? given that it has slow firing does that mean that after using the repulsorfist as the first attack you have to stop attacking or can you normally punch them with or without (which?) the cybernetic/repulsorfist hand. Thanks for your time.

Hello Keith,

As written, you could potentially use the repulsor fist for all attacks that round, based on how Slow-Firing works. However, you should clear that with your GM first, with the understanding that they may not allow it.

Hope that helps!

Hello Keith,
That is correct.

Hope that helps!

Rules Question:
Hi A question about the warrior's "Unmatched ferocity" signature ability if the unmatched ferocity difficulty has already reached formidable, and you succeed on the attack, do you have to stop attacking or do you get to make your next attack against 5 purples or maybe 4 purple and a red? Thanks for your time.

Hello Keith,

Once a check’s difficulty passes Formidable, it falls under the Impossible checks rule. Basically, you need to get your GM’s permission (and your GM is well within their rights to disallow it), spend a Destiny Point to attempt it, and also potentially suffer upgrades to the difficulty.

Hope that helps!

So using Draw Closer as a generator of successes works, I just can't use its pull + change targets to call others to the middle of the rampage. That seems super badass and, while it is a tad bit strong, fits my character nicely. Agressor to Niman, from blind rage swinging two vibro swords to a darkish balance of blade and the force.

Thank you so much!

40 minutes ago, WickedWicks said:

So using Draw Closer as a generator of successes works, I just can't use its pull + change targets to call others to the middle of the rampage. That seems super badass and, while it is a tad bit strong, fits my character nicely. Agressor to Niman, from blind rage swinging two vibro swords to a darkish balance of blade and the force.

Thank you so much!

It has to be a weapon using the lightsaber skill, so no vibroblades, but otherwise yes.

Oh don't worry, I've already acquired a nice Barab Ingot.

What would you recommend as my third carreer? I'm thinking about Warden as it gets me the 4th Force die and has many synergies with the Aggressor. It will take quite a while, but it should be fun.

10 hours ago, WickedWicks said:

Oh don't worry, I've already acquired a nice Barab Ingot.

What would you recommend as my third carreer? I'm thinking about Warden as it gets me the 4th Force die and has many synergies with the Aggressor. It will take quite a while, but it should be fun.

I don't actually like warden. Something like (in random order) sage (quick way to get 2 force dice, balance to help with strain, the force is my ally, preemptive avoidance, one with the universe, and natural negotiator really helps with cool checks), jedi knight (rise of the separatists, generally available on may 9th I think, lightsaber awesomeness, a force die and a dedication, has balance talent to help with strain management), padawan survivor (dawn of rebellion, universal spec so 10 xp cheaper, dedication, force die, let's you craft a tricked out lightsaber and get all the crystals mods, also can boost lightsaber damage, has some parry and reflect, has the balance talent to help with strain management, provides constant vigilance talent for only 5 xp, if you have a high willpower it helps you go first because if you have niman technique you likely have a high willpower and you want willpower to be 5 or higher), steel hand adept (knights of fate, a rank of parry, unarmed parry so using parry is 1 strain cheaper as long as you have 1 hand free, dedication and force rating, it's an in career spec so 1 xp cheaper), ascetic (disciples of harmony, best strain management in the game and unmatched ferocity can use a lot of strain, if you get the ebb/flow talent you can use it all the time, and empty soul can provide a free light and dark force point to all force power checks including ebb flow so every action can recover 2 strain guaranteed but you can't use the free force point to gain extra successes from draw closer, even though you could get the free force point from empty soul on a combined draw closer ebb/flow check).

Also the last 2 pages of forged in battle have scar talents, steely nerves is useful for any high willpower or high presence build. Time to go is another favorite of mine.

8 hours ago, EliasWindrider said:

sage

8 hours ago, EliasWindrider said:

steel hand adept

8 hours ago, EliasWindrider said:

ascetic

I don't see my character going these routes, he is a an edgy mix of brute strength and raw power, I think these are either too refined (ascetic, steel hand) or too focused on the Force (sage). If the story pushes me toward connecting more with the Force, sage would indeed be a great.

8 hours ago, EliasWindrider said:

jedi knight

I have searched around and didn't find anything about this career, was it leaked or something? It sounds great if it is like Niman (Parry/Reflect + Force die), definetly could see myself getting this!

8 hours ago, EliasWindrider said:

I don't actually like warden.

8 hours ago, EliasWindrider said:

padawan survivor

I liked Warden because it gives me some sweet things like Baleful Gaze, Precision Strike, a bunch of crowd control and Confidance (Vader already showed up once, it wasn't pretty), besides it also get Dedication and Force Rating, which are the only things I think I care about Padawan Survival. The extra damage talent is sweet, but I have no points in lore and 3 already in coercion if I end up with Baleful Gaze. Am I missing something about Padawan?

8 hours ago, EliasWindrider said:

Also the last 2 pages of forged in battle have scar talents, steely nerves is useful for any high willpower or high presence build. Time to go is another favorite of mine.

I didn't understand how these work. If you get a scar due to a critical, the DM can give you one of these talents for free?

1 hour ago, WickedWicks said:

I don't see my character going these routes, he is a an edgy mix of brute strength and raw power, I think these are either too refined (ascetic, steel hand) or too focused on the Force (sage). If the story pushes me toward connecting more with the Force, sage would indeed be a great.

I have searched around and didn't find anything about this career, was it leaked or something? It sounds great if it is like Niman (Parry/Reflect + Force die), definetly could see myself getting this!

I liked Warden because it gives me some sweet things like Baleful Gaze, Precision Strike, a bunch of crowd control and Confidance (Vader already showed up once, it wasn't pretty), besides it also get Dedication and Force Rating, which are the only things I think I care about Padawan Survival. The extra damage talent is sweet, but I have no points in lore and 3 already in coercion if I end up with Baleful Gaze. Am I missing something about Padawan?

I didn't understand how these work. If you get a scar due to a critical, the DM can give you one of these talents for free?

The cost of the talent depends on the difficulty to heal the critical injury (higher crit rolls equal cheaper talents... as cheap as 5 xp, but it's generally disadvantageous to get a talent for less than 10 xp)

Jedi career premieres in rise of the separatists, a small number of the books were released at celebration and photos appeared on the web, but you can get the trees here

Jedi Knight is awesome, thank you for the link.

29 minutes ago, WickedWicks said:

Jedi Knight is awesome, thank you for the link.

PM me your email address and I can send you the scar rules.