On 4/18/2019 at 1:25 PM, TheJack said:

And, I think there was a podcast where one of the developers said they assume something like 300 experience to be a complete campaign, which is not all that much, and certainly not enough to cause out-of-career specs to be inevitable.

Wait, wait - hold on. 300 points is a complete campaign? Man, at my table 300 points is JUST when the characters are starting to hit their stride! Of the five Star Wars games we've played, the characters are in the neighborhood of something like 8,00 - 1,200 points. One of them was a whole lot less as the game kind of imploded, so that one doesn't really count (and even then we hit 380 points earned). We did a short-ish game where we all went "You know, I think we're at a good place for these guys to stop adventuring" and still topped out at 400+ points. Our Genesis Fantasy game - okay, not quite the same system, but close enough - is only just now hitting 250 and I've got a LONG way to go in my character.

Are we the ones that are out of the ordinary? Do you guys plateau out 300-ish points?

My Age of Rebellion game ended around 550 exp. We ended since the characters were able to complete crazy checks, but also only 1 or the remaining orignal characters were still in it. We could have kept playing at that exp I think you need to have the group fight more adversaries or in combat.

I don't like increasing the difficulty for the checks just because the player have higher skills. That is what I hear is the most common way to keep the game going at high exp levels.

Well, my first campaign ended at around ~450-500 XP. However, that campaign ended far sooner than I anticipated, due to out-of-game issues. If things had continued up until my original planned ending, it would have been around 750 XP.

My current Clone Wars campaign started at Knight Level, and now most members are currently sitting at about 350 XP, and we're not even a third of the way through the Clone Wars. Granted, I have two time-jumps planned for the campaign (one of them coming up after my next session or two). So, by the time the campaign reaches Order 66, and the planned conclusion of this story, the party should be sitting at close to 1,000 XP.

After that, I have a post-RotJ campaign I've been brewing up. While I don't plan on kicking it off for some time (probably at least a year from now, if not longer), I do plan on that one running to about the 1,000 XP mark as well with the current material I've thought up for it. I'm planning on running a "New Jedi Academy" story, with Luke traveling the galaxy, recruiting other Force sensitives to his mission of discovering ancient Jedi knowledge. The campaign will be telling several key stories that lead to Luke's disillusionment with the previous Jedi Order, as well as going into detail on the rise of Snoke and his connection to Luke and the Knights of Ren. Of course, I've yet to craft how these aspects will be personally relevant to the player's characters since, well, I don't have players or their characters yet for that campaign.

My players are in the middle of their 2nd campaign with the same characters & they’re up around the 1,400xp mark!

I'm still finding it easy to challenge them & that's without upping difficulties. Ok, they’ll go through Stormtroopers like a hot knife through butter but they’re still wary of taking hits! I like the situation to creates the challenge rather than the adversaries.

7 hours ago, Desslok said:

Wait, wait - hold on. 300 points is a complete campaign? Man, at my table 300 points is JUST when the characters are starting to hit their stride!

Are we the ones that are out of the ordinary? Do you guys plateau out 300-ish points?

Well, 300xp is about 200 xp given in story awards, meaning about 10 sessions of 20xp each or 8 sessions of about 25xp each. Most stories/campaigns run about that number of sessions for those playing on a weekly basis. We play 2x's a month and campaign fatigue hits about that time, as well. That's probably more about the story and players than the system. I push to keep going but the players usually want something new at that point. But I agree, its just starting to begin at that point!

I expect my campaign to end at about 14-1500xp they have just over a 1000 now and we have 11-12 sessions remaining including some climatic moments worth more than the average exp. I consider 10 sessions to me a mini-game no campaign I consider worthy of the title has concluded in less than 20 sessions and usually many more. I would say that saying most campaigns end after 10 sessions needs to be qualified at most campaigns I have experienced, as my point that most campaigns take around 30 sessions is equally valid and needs the same qualifier.

Just adding my 5 cents here:

I personally think 300 experience (even if you don't include startin experience) is *way* too small. My character has just hit her stride in my current campaign, and she's got 310 experience to play with, and there's at least another 300 coming in the future

The dev I'm half-quoting there appeared on a podcast that I can't for the life of me remember the name of... I think the episode was talking about either Dawn of the Rebellion, *or* that the dev had build the Jedi Council members because he wanted to see if he could break the system by just using absurd amounts of experience. It might have been both?

If you're curious, apparantly he used something like 1500-3000 experience or something to build the various council members, and yet he didn't manage to break the system to any significant degree. As such, he mentioned something about the standard campaign length that the devs balance around being 300 experience, but the system is solid enough that it'll be coherent even at much higher experience levels.

I want to offer the perspective of one of my players

I had one player that in my longest campaign thought that 250-300 XP was good enough to retire. I offered the argument that his character could still grow in several areas and he still didn't have signature abilities. Not that it was mandatory, but I was trying to explain how high they can go.

In the end, is a matter of perspective. As a GM, I think you can still increase the risk of the adversaries and handle PC with more than 600xp.

In the campaign i have been playing in for about 2-3 years now we are crawling up on about 1500xp (i would just like to note that we only get about 10xp per session) and we are still getting challanged

Current game (running about monthly for over 5 years) is at 710 earned XP, and I think it's in the final stretch (maybe another 12 months-ish).

I'm in some PBP's that are all above 500 earned XP, with no end in sight.

My game is in the 1,200 XP range right now. We're perhaps half way done with what I've got in mind.

The XP awards in the game per RAW give you fast advancement to fill out Spec Trees. I feel the real power in the game comes largely from the Talents so a character with a ton of them is going to be pretty formidable when doing whatever it is that they have built the character to do. If you give out the recommended average XP per the EotE core rule book: pg. 301 "typically 10-20 XP," "playing to a character's Motivation also grants 5 XP per session at the GM's option." it comes out to about 20 average XP per session (15 base plus Motivation award).

in 5 Sessions you will reach 100 XP above starting XP (say 200 total), in 15 sessions the group will be at about 400 Total XP, and in 30 sessions the group will be at about 700 XP.

With a weekly game that is 7 1/2 Months to 700 XP.

So if you are wanting a game where the characters are having a slower climb to higher Total XP then you have to reduce or stagger XP Awards.

We made it to 700XP, but the correct answer is: when the story is done.

I've run games into just above the 900 XP level, but I usually start them at the 300-450 XP and award 15 XP per session (2 sessions per month). I find that starting characters in this system (even the laughable "Knight Level") are insufficiently fleshed out and differentiated, so I raise the floor. The ceiling is usually reached after 1-2 years of play, and that's just because there are other games to play.

I ran a weekly EotE game (2-4 hours a session usually) for about 18 months, handing out about 20 XP a month. All my players were happy with the progression and we finished up because the story was complete. After a break to play a different game, the same group is back playing EotE with one of the previous players now GMing. The XP pace is a little faster than when I was GM however after the first two months, the players (me included) feel like our characters are pretty fleshed out to where we want them to be. Any XP going forward is just gravy.

I think campaigns with force users can run longer since they have to spread the exp between Force powers, instead of just talents and skills.

I personally am at 3000 xp and counting.

I think a good part of it depends on the player investing broadly rather then tall. Between Gadgeteer, Assassin, Emergant, Artian, Ataru and Teacher. The main issue I've encountered is that I have to hold back to allow the GM to challenge the party without me being overkill, thus I generally play a more subtle supporting role in story arcs not centred around my goal (purging evil from the galaxy as this crook turned assassin turned religious man). I exercise a great amount of restraint that allows me to continue telling a story and act as a supporting character to this story of the hardships endured between the battle of Yavin and beyond Endor as this squad of mercs turned commandos turned super heroes of the struggling republic.

I personally feel that the game just isn't designed to work all that well at my level, and the idea of Yoda and Sidious having a FR 8 is really just pure **** fiction, given what I can do with just a FR 4. but whatever I guess. XD

I wish there was some sort of mechanic where after a certain point the player could choose (or the GM could force upon them, whichever works) to basically reset their character back to zero in exchange for some benefits so that no matter how much EXP is given out or the player spends they won't break the game, as well as allow the player to keep progressing. Like say when you reach mechanics skill level 5 you'd be able to lower your mechanics skill back to zero in exchange for a permanent boost die to all mechanics rolls or something, then build back up. This is because at some point any player will become too OPed to be challenged if they play the same character for long enough and the player will get to a point they're just buying random skills and talents just to use up the EXP.

14 minutes ago, immortalfrieza said:

I wish there was some sort of mechanic where after a certain point the player could choose (or the GM could force upon them, whichever works) to basically reset their character back to zero

A critical injury roll of 151+ pretty well handles this, and it's not too hard to arrange if you're OK with being a jackhole GM.

1 hour ago, immortalfrieza said:

I wish there was some sort of mechanic where after a certain point the player could choose (or the GM could force upon them, whichever works) to basically reset their character back to zero in exchange for some benefits so that no matter how much EXP is given out or the player spends they won't break the game, as well as allow the player to keep progressing. Like say when you reach mechanics skill level 5 you'd be able to lower your mechanics skill back to zero in exchange for a permanent boost die to all mechanics rolls or something, then build back up. This is because at some point any player will become too OPed to be challenged if they play the same character for long enough and the player will get to a point they're just buying random skills and talents just to use up the EXP.

Does no one enjoy making new characters and experiencing new stories? Maybe it's because I was reared in the old days of D&D when you died a lot, but maybe retire the characters when they aren't challenged or at least give them a hiatus and make up a new generation of heroes. Or, and I know this is crazy, you can have sessions without XP gain or very little XP gain.

5 hours ago, Archlyte said:

Does no one enjoy making new characters and experiencing new stories? Maybe it's because I was reared in the old days of D&D when you died a lot, but maybe retire the characters when they aren't challenged or at least give them a hiatus and make up a new generation of heroes. Or, and I know this is crazy, you can have sessions without XP gain or very little XP gain.

I would like to do this but we are literally in the last few months of the galactic civil war and there isn't a narrative reason to back away from the narrative at this point, so changing perspective at this point or retiring from the action would literally be the most out of character thing to do, given the amount of imperial terror weapons that could snuff his family life short on a causal notice there is out there. No point seeing your family if that means watching them die someday in the future from the Krytos virus, the Fenris virus, the galaxy gun, that mysterious gathering of ships in.... You get the picture, the time period is super busy. XD

The way I do that though is changing my parameters of success and failure to different things. My primary drive is to see how much of this galaxy we can change before the war ends, what battles are we apart of and so fourth. And there are some situations that are still impossible for me to win despite my character's capabilities. He might be a god like fighter who can remove rivals and nemesis class characters in a single exchange with a + 50 Crit lightsaber, but his soak is ok (6 most of the time.) and he is still just one guy, thus heavily outnumbering is usually a way of threatening a TPW. One of the most challenging encounters I've ever had is three of us fighting our way through a train full of stormtrooper commandos, about 4/6 rivals per car, that encounter ended with someone falling to the dark side from overusing conflict generated from pips to lob commandos out of the train, and ultimately the train making it to the destination to disable the shield generator. Given we had to throw ourselves out of the train to avoid certain doom? Yeah, being literally on the last dregs of our wounds and having fought all day (Ghosts of Daft)? yeah, we were pretty tapped out and just had to leave unheroically as the imperial forces landed to take the planet, but finding that limit was just so satisfying that I had no regret trying so hard, and failing.

My edge/age game got put on hiatus about 600-700 when my son was born (21 months ago) and another guy in the group took over as GM and started kotor era campaign where we're at about 600 xp now

9 hours ago, LordBritish said:

I would like to do this but we are literally in the last few months of the galactic civil war and there isn't a narrative reason to back away from the narrative at this point, so changing perspective at this point or retiring from the action would literally be the most out of character thing to do, given the amount of imperial terror weapons that could snuff his family life short on a causal notice there is out there. No point seeing your family if that means watching them die someday in the future from the Krytos virus, the Fenris virus, the galaxy gun, that mysterious gathering of ships in.... You get the picture, the time period is super busy. XD

The way I do that though is changing my parameters of success and failure to different things. My primary drive is to see how much of this galaxy we can change before the war ends, what battles are we apart of and so fourth. And there are some situations that are still impossible for me to win despite my character's capabilities. He might be a god like fighter who can remove rivals and nemesis class characters in a single exchange with a + 50 Crit lightsaber, but his soak is ok (6 most of the time.) and he is still just one guy, thus heavily outnumbering is usually a way of threatening a TPW. One of the most challenging encounters I've ever had is three of us fighting our way through a train full of stormtrooper commandos, about 4/6 rivals per car, that encounter ended with someone falling to the dark side from overusing conflict generated from pips to lob commandos out of the train, and ultimately the train making it to the destination to disable the shield generator. Given we had to throw ourselves out of the train to avoid certain doom? Yeah, being literally on the last dregs of our wounds and having fought all day (Ghosts of Daft)? yeah, we were pretty tapped out and just had to leave unheroically as the imperial forces landed to take the planet, but finding that limit was just so satisfying that I had no regret trying so hard, and failing.

Thanks for taking my post in the spirit it was written LB, I am all for continuing a campaign if the story is compelling. I feel that this is actually the main reason to keep going. I was just reacting though to the poster saying that the mechanics were essentially inhibiting continued play because the game play and the XP gain are linked together in an unbreakable manner, and the game was breaking down due to crazy capabilities.

Why do you have to get XP for a session?

If your characters are doing cool stuff the XP gain dynamic should not be needed. Is it fun to progress? Of course it is, but being unable to enjoy a session unless you get XP ?

From a behavioral standpoint the XP award at the end of the session is an effective reinforcer. It allows you to play the Character Specialization Tree minigame, so you get a nice little activity to engage in post-XP award. But if you are at the point where more XP is not going to help the game or the story why is it being used?

To me the progression should be a slave to the story, not the other way around.

18 hours ago, Archlyte said:

Does no one enjoy making new characters and experiencing new stories? Maybe it's because I was reared in the old days of D&D when you died a lot, but maybe retire the characters when they aren't challenged or at least give them a hiatus and make up a new generation of heroes. Or, and I know this is crazy, you can have sessions without XP gain or very little XP gain.

I enjoy making new characters as much as anyone. By the same token, I really enjoy playing characters for a long time and really fleshing out their stories through role-play. I've been playing my signature character on and off for over 20 years, dating back to WEG D6 2nd Ed Revised and Expanded, and still never completed his story arc. Given the choice, I don't ever intend to stop playing him.

1 hour ago, Tramp Graphics said:

I enjoy making new characters as much as anyone. By the same token, I really enjoy playing characters for a long time and really fleshing out their stories through role-play. I've been playing my signature character on and off for over 20 years, dating back to WEG D6 2nd Ed Revised and Expanded, and still never completed his story arc. Given the choice, I don't ever intend to stop playing him.

Exactly. It's pretty easy to get attached to a character you've been playing a long time and want to see progress, especially when they have really difficult long term goals to complete. For me, I haven't found a group that sticks around long enough to get anywhere close to completing either goal, but my favorite character has the goal of taking over the Empire (a man behind the man type or overtly I don't know) or at least kill off Palpatine and put Vader on the throne, and swipe a Imperial Star Destroyer somewhere along the line. So yeah, provided he doesn't get killed he's going to be around for a good while.