"Unlike most Victory-class vessels, the Harrow was powered by two primary engines and two vertically-lined secondary thrusters. The vessel had a single docking bay." (Article on VSD Harrow on Wookieepedia)

I think it's highly likely the • Harrow title upgrade let's one of your Victory SDs gain a higher speed; either by changing the ship's speed chart, by granting an extra movement at the end of the movement similar to the • Quantum Storm effect or by giving it a support slot so the Harrow can be upgraded with Engine Techs.

What do you think would be the nicest of these options.

Btw... as far as I understand the Jejerrod effect, it changes the first yaw of the speed dial for your entire activation. In other words, if you move with speed 2, resolve a navigate command and change the 2nd yaw to II, the Harrow's movement would be as follows: II, II & II... So I guess a support slot is off the table.

Ideas?

53 minutes ago, JadinED said:

"Unlike most Victory-class vessels, the Harrow was powered by two primary engines and two vertically-lined secondary thrusters. The vessel had a single docking bay." (Article on VSD Harrow on Wookieepedia)

I think it's highly likely the • Harrow title upgrade let's one of your Victory SDs gain a higher speed; either by changing the ship's speed chart, by granting an extra movement at the end of the movement similar to the • Quantum Storm effect or by giving it a support slot so the Harrow can be upgraded with Engine Techs.

What do you think would be the nicest of these options.

Btw... as far as I understand the Jejerrod effect, it changes the first yaw of the speed dial for your entire activation. In other words, if you move with speed 2, resolve a navigate command and change the 2nd yaw to II, the Harrow's movement would be as follows: II, II & II... So I guess a support slot is off the table.

Ideas?

I hope so...it would sure be awkward for all those people saying Legends is too obscure/non-canon to be included post-Disney.

From my eye though it doesn’t look like “H” is the first letter.

Doesnt look like 'Harrow' at all.

Ideas is that I spend most my games going speed 2, even when I am using faster ships.... like, MAYBE my Gladiators will be going fast to flank, but I always get back down to 2. And normally, my enemies are either 2 or 3... suprisingly, when the options are, 'fly right past and near the edge of the combat area, or engage the enemy.'... people slow down.

1 hour ago, JadinED said:

Btw... as far as I understand the Jejerrod effect, it changes the first yaw of the speed dial for your entire activation. In other words, if you move with speed 2, resolve a navigate command and change the 2nd yaw to II, the Harrow's movement would be as follows: II, II & II... So I guess a support slot is off the table.

Jerry changes the first yaw "of your current speed " during the determine course step. So I believe you could Jerry once at speed 2, then Jerry again for an Engine Techs (or similar) maneuver.

54 minutes ago, The Jabbawookie said:

Jerry changes the first yaw "of your current speed " during the determine course step. So I believe you could Jerry once at speed 2, then Jerry again for an Engine Techs (or similar) maneuver.

Note that “current speed” is a defined term in the RRG

It is “the value shown on your speed dial”

I'm fairly confident that the first letter is a P. I can see a loop at the top and nothing below this loop as a B or R would have. It looks like an e at the end and double letters in the middle also.

The Protector?

1 hour ago, The Jabbawookie said:

Jerry changes the first yaw "of your current speed " during the determine course step. So I believe you could Jerry once at speed 2, then Jerry again for an Engine Techs (or similar) maneuver.

You can do it on the Interdictor (the only ship this scenario is currently applicable to), but it doesn't work quite that way.

This is how you do it:

The big problem with victorys is they can't get away if they are in trouble, and have trouble arch dodging, and is far more fragile then expected and it they get in trouble they die almost all the time. If they could get up to speed 3 that would help in that case. The reason I find the victory is not super competitive is that by the time it is built it is 100+ points in most cases. The ship becomes a big point sink and without speed 3 to get out of trouble you just dies.

I'm honestly disappointed they didn't make the victory 2 faster, since one of the main alterations (aside from dropping the missiles and adding ions) was upgrading the engines.

13 hours ago, Wintercross said:

honestly  disappointed they didn't make the victory 2 fas  te   r 

When I first begin to play I was suprised to see that no ship alteration will have different speeds or different defense tokens. Actually different speeds for alternative types would really change the gameplay.

edit:horrible grammar

On 4/21/2019 at 9:16 PM, LostFleet said:

When I first begin to play I was suprised to see that no ship alteration will have different speeds or different defense tokens. Actually different speeds for alternative types would really change the gameplay.

edit:horrible grammar

Indeed. They tinker with weapons & slots. Not really sure why speed & manoeuvrability should be off the table.

I’m afraid that Harrow or any other title/upgrade would’t help Victory to become great again. And that is because only large ships (i.e. Victory’s main competitor Imperial class) has access to Strategic Adviser. Let’s assume that we speek about Imperial 2 and recently buffed by capacitors Victory 2. For reasonable price of 124 points for Imperial 2 you gain a ship that is twice a Victory in activation manner while still capable of dealing 1 on 1 with Victory 2. One may say that differ in points is quite big and it is 35 points at least, and that is true. But this difference will decrease as we add more and more upgrades to Victory, and it’s performance still be paled to that of Imperial 2 in maneurability, durability or firepower (sure, we can put full load of Capacitors, Gunnery team, Leading shots, Minister Tua + ECM/RBD, some turbolaser on it, but that make Victory price in points comparable to Imperial still not giving the decisive edge over naked Imperial 2 that will have activation advantage due to Strategic Advisor. And increase in maneuvrability will do little help there as ISD can simply wait for Victory’s move, neglecting it’s improved maneuvrability) .

But if we remove Strategic Advisor from equation, then we will have a bit different picture. Whithout this additional activation upgraded Victory has nearly equal chances to win or loose 1 on 1 battle and that is what expected from ships of close to the same price. And even unupgraded Victory will still has better chances against ISD because it doesn’t have it’s activations advantage any more (not to say the one with improoved speed).

Ability to have Strategic Advisor on big ship is what makes Victory a senseless waste of points, because you don’t have any tools to deal with this kind of advantage (taking second non flotilia ship neglect all point savings Victory provides while taking additional flotilia may not be an option due to flotilia limit and still eats liont share of points saved by choosing Victory). And I move further and say that this is not solely Victory problem (it’s just the most obvious) but all medium class ships problem, because they all have worse points/efficiency problems against large ships with Strategic Advisor.

Only change to Strategic Advisor card, say by making it one use only, will make Victory (and other medium ships) great again, but not another round of new upgrades.

SAd generally is brought for only a big one off moment. I understand that some players get a lot of uses out of it during a game, but it seems that the bulk of players use it in a way that matters just once a game.

I’m not sure discard to use makes a big difference.

I don’t know how players may use SAD only once per game as more or less standart fleets start engagement in the end of second turn. So at least two of the most decisive turns SAD is in use for advantage. And that’s not saying that there are situations when it has a good use in later game, because sometimes even in the heat of battle ability to pass can be put to good use.

1 hour ago, maxster said:

I’m afraid that Harrow or any other title/upgrade would’t help Victory to become great again. And that is because only large ships (i.e. Victory’s main competitor Imperial class) has access to Strategic Adviser. Let’s assume that we speek about Imperial 2 and recently buffed by capacitors Victory 2. For reasonable price of 124 points for Imperial 2 you gain a ship that is twice a Victory in activation manner while still capable of dealing 1 on 1 with Victory 2. One may say that differ in points is quite big and it is 35 points at least, and that is true. But this difference will decrease as we add more and more upgrades to Victory, and it’s performance still be paled to that of Imperial 2 in maneurability, durability or firepower (sure, we can put full load of Capacitors, Gunnery team, Leading shots, Minister Tua + ECM/RBD, some turbolaser on it, but that make Victory price in points comparable to Imperial still not giving the decisive edge over naked Imperial 2 that will have activation advantage due to Strategic Advisor. And increase in maneuvrability will do little help there as ISD can simply wait for Victory’s move, neglecting it’s improved maneuvrability) .

Agreed.

1 hour ago, maxster said:

But if we remove Strategic Advisor from equation, then we will have a bit different picture. Whithout this additional activation upgraded Victory has nearly equal chances to win or loose 1 on 1 battle and that is what expected from ships of close to the same price. And even unupgraded Victory will still has better chances against ISD because it doesn’t have it’s activations advantage any more (not to say the one with improoved speed).

Ability to have Strategic Advisor on big ship is what makes Victory a senseless waste of points, because you don’t have any tools to deal with this kind of advantage (taking second non flotilia ship neglect all point savings Victory provides while taking additional flotilia may not be an option due to flotilia limit and still eats liont share of points saved by choosing Victory). And I move further and say that this is not solely Victory problem (it’s just the most obvious) but all medium class ships problem, because they all have worse points/efficiency problems against large ships with Strategic Advisor.

Only change to Strategic Advisor card, say by making it one use only, will make Victory (and other medium ships) great again, but not another round of new upgrades.

Disagreed. This may be an unpopular opinion but I think the addition of SAd was necessary to balance out the deficiencies large ships have versus small once. So instead of downgrading SAd to a one time use I think SAd should stay the way it is and there should be a new card that is a one time use variant of SAd for medium based ships.

New title is called "haha you idiots you left the parking brake on here lemme fix that" and lets the victory go speed 4 but it can't turn at all.

1 hour ago, maxster said:

I’m afraid that Harrow or any other title/upgrade would’t help Victory to become great again. And that is because only large ships (i.e. Victory’s main competitor Imperial class) has access to Strategic Adviser. Let’s assume that we speek about Imperial 2 and recently buffed by capacitors Victory 2. For reasonable price of 124 points for Imperial 2 you gain a ship that is twice a Victory in activation manner while still capable of dealing 1 on 1 with Victory 2. One may say that differ in points is quite big and it is 35 points at least, and that is true. But this difference will decrease as we add more and more upgrades to Victory, and it’s performance still be paled to that of Imperial 2 in maneurability, durability or firepower (sure, we can put full load of Capacitors, Gunnery team, Leading shots, Minister Tua + ECM/RBD, some turbolaser on it, but that make Victory price in points comparable to Imperial still not giving the decisive edge over naked Imperial 2 that will have activation advantage due to Strategic Advisor. And increase in maneuvrability will do little help there as ISD can simply wait for Victory’s move, neglecting it’s improved maneuvrability) .

But if we remove Strategic Advisor from equation, then we will have a bit different picture. Whithout this additional activation upgraded Victory has nearly equal chances to win or loose 1 on 1 battle and that is what expected from ships of close to the same price. And even unupgraded Victory will still has better chances against ISD because it doesn’t have it’s activations advantage any more (not to say the one with improoved speed).

Ability to have Strategic Advisor on big ship is what makes Victory a senseless waste of points, because you don’t have any tools to deal with this kind of advantage (taking second non flotilia ship neglect all point savings Victory provides while taking additional flotilia may not be an option due to flotilia limit and still eats liont share of points saved by choosing Victory). And I move further and say that this is not solely Victory problem (it’s just the most obvious) but all medium class ships problem, because they all have worse points/efficiency problems against large ships with Strategic Advisor.

Only change to Strategic Advisor card, say by making it one use only, will make Victory (and other medium ships) great again, but not another round of new upgrades.

If Vics could go Speed 3 or use Engine Techs, they'd be great with Governor Pryce or Captain Brunson. I don't think SAd is necessary to win.

That being said, I like your idea of SAd being a discard.

The problem with the Victory is NOT that it is speed 2 - the problem is that the ISD is speed 3.

Nerf the ISD - problem solved.

I really hope the new Victory title gives the Support Team slot to the Vic, giving it several potential uses on the battlefield - at the moment is just a terrible ISD with no SAd. Adding Support Team as a title would also prevent Vic spam if it proves very popular.

Options with a Support Team slot then open up to:

- Engine Techs, speed 3 and better turning. Or Nav Team for better yaw on a token. An instant fix to make the Vic an effective medium size battleship.

- Projection Experts, to spam shields across the rest of the fleet. Engineering Team to be even more tanky. Viable alternative to the Interdictor.

- Fighter Coordination Team, to make it a better battle carrier and compete with the Quasar.

Here’s hoping, would love to get my Vic on the table again!

3 Vics with Thrawn was a fun build. But even so they are not forgiving of manoeuvre mistakes. And with manoeuvre so critical to the game they can be difficult to use well (in my humble middling experience level opinion).