Now that we have the Jedi career, would you say that it is more powerful that the careers presented in Force and Destiny?

4 hours ago, JinFaram said:

Now that we have the Jedi career, would you say that it is more powerful that the careers presented in Force and Destiny?

I wouldn't say more powerful, per se. There are plenty of really, really powerful builds in F&D that the Jedi Career specs simply can't hope to match.

10 hours ago, JinFaram said:

Now that we have the Jedi career, would you say that it is more powerful that the careers presented in Force and Destiny?

It's currently incomplete. It only has two specializations compared to six for the others. It's not the right time yet for a comparison.

I would say that, as a combatant skill set at least, the Jedi careers would create a capable combatant very quickly, reflect, parry and a force rating per tree is sangifcantly above the curve compared to what most trees get. At the two career mark they will be likely tougher and a higher force rating to play around with then most, "non-Jedi" F&D characters, whatever that noise is meant to mean. Xd

what this career set lacks however is diversified skills. Unless they buy into other careers, they won't be able to cheat at knowledge checks are the action economy like sage/seer can, move as quickly as a hunter or have as many tricks as a specialist lightsaber tree unless they buy out of career. Plus with the right amount of cheese you could make as powerful a force user as a Jedi career, just take dedicated lightsaber tree + 2 force rating is just as effective, if not more so in some contexts

what the Jedi trees are fantastic at however is serving as a solid, easy build. One of my friends built a force wizard and was quite obsessed with having a high force rating, to the extent he invested nothing in defending himself in a duel. After about six months of having that concern brushed off (that's what you guys are for, stopping that from happening) a nemesis inquisitor engaged him at the end of one round and absolutely destroyed him with two turns of back to back attacks. If he had even considered a minor investment in parry, he would have weathered those blows poorly rather then being taken out. If a character brought into a Jedi tree, regardless of their ultimate career path they would be broadly capable. Padawan/knight can slot in practically anywhere, with very little convience cost for an injection of badass.

so yeah, the Jedi trees are an "easy build" if you ask me(for the lack of a better term, I personally like them a lot). You literally can't go wrong in picking them, but they lack the specialist flare of some of the force and Destiny trees.

My previous "generic jedi" builds were Consular/Nimian Disciple and Guardian/Protector (greensaber and bluesaber, respectively). In comparison, Padawon/Knight needs less XP to meet "jedi minimums", (FR2, parry/reflect, lightsaber+discipline+lore skills) but has a much harder time getting... pretty much anything else, with out of spec penalties. Even the Knight's Circle of shelter is easier to get as a Protector.

How do you guys think it compares to niman-disciple/sentry (in either order) build as a generic 2 spec jedi?

14 hours ago, JinFaram said:

Now that we have the Jedi career, would you say that it is more powerful that the careers presented in Force and Destiny?

A ataru-striker/sage will wreck just about any other 2 spec combo in a lightsaber duel, possibly excepting a warrior:steelhand-adept/niman-disciple with the unmatched ferocity signature ability.

18 hours ago, JinFaram said:

Now that we have the Jedi career, would you say that it is more powerful that the careers presented in Force and Destiny?

It depends on how you define "more powerful."

Padawan by itself isn't all that awesome in terms of combat, though it does offer a fairly inexpensive Force Rating talent but nothing that directly amps up Lightsaber attacks apart from Temple Training, though unlike Padawan Survivor odds are good the PC is going to have Knowledge (Lore) as a career skill. A decent chunk of their talents center around modifying skill check results in general. A PC who starts with Jedi/Padawan as their initial career/spec combo isn't going to be an innately better lightsaber combatant than a PC who starts with one of the other F&D careers and chooses a LS Form spec to begin play in. Jedi/Padawan does offer quite a broad selection of skills to choose from though, so it's not too difficult to tailor your character's starting skill load out to suit one's concept, and I'd say a Consular/Niman Disciple is about on par in the early going in terms of making a generic Jedi apprentice style of character.

Knight is beefy, but a large part of that comes from having both improved Parry and Improved Reflect, while Dedication and Force Rating are both found in a separate section that's not connected to the portion focused on lightsaber-centric talents.

7 hours ago, Donovan Morningfire said:

It depends on how you define "more powerful."

Padawan by itself isn't all that awesome in terms of combat, though it does offer a fairly inexpensive Force Rating talent but nothing that directly amps up Lightsaber attacks apart from Temple Training, though unlike Padawan Survivor odds are good the PC is going to have Knowledge (Lore) as a career skill. A decent chunk of their talents center around modifying skill check results in general. A PC who starts with Jedi/Padawan as their initial career/spec combo isn't going to be an innately better lightsaber combatant than a PC who starts with one of the other F&D careers and chooses a LS Form spec to begin play in. Jedi/Padawan does offer quite a broad selection of skills to choose from though, so it's not too difficult to tailor your character's starting skill load out to suit one's concept, and I'd say a Consular/Niman Disciple is about on par in the early going in terms of making a generic Jedi apprentice style of character.

Knight is beefy, but a large part of that comes from having both improved Parry and Improved Reflect, while Dedication and Force Rating are both found in a separate section that's not connected to the portion focused on lightsaber-centric talents.

I think the Jedi career makes an awesome 3 spec jedi. Add a lightsaber form of the style you like to round them out.

5 hours ago, Daeglan said:

I think the Jedi career makes an awesome 3 spec jedi. Add a lightsaber form of the style you like to round them out.

Agreed. Padawan for the fundamentals, a LS Form spec to match the character's preferred method of saber-fighting, and Knight to round it out.

5 hours ago, Donovan Morningfire said:

Agreed. Padawan for the fundamentals, a LS Form spec to match the character's preferred method of saber-fighting, and Knight to round it out.

And you can add an appropriate 4th spec from F&D. Possibly Jedi Master spec if it exists like we think

They just seem like another argument for doing free-form talents instead of the silly trees. People should be able to build the concept they want without a million xp and 5 different classes.

33 minutes ago, TyrisFlare said:

They just seem like another argument for doing free-form talents instead of the silly trees. People should be able to build the concept they want without a million xp and 5 different classes.

You could always go the Genesys route if you’re so inclined. Probably one of the primary reasons they went with the pyramid. Well, that and the fact that specs are built around the inherent assumptions of the setting, and Genesys is billed as a generic RPG with no default setting.

Having said that, I’ll definitely keep the spec trees from Star Wars for Star Wars. Any other setting and I’ll go with the pyramid.

My only fear of not using the speculation trees is due to the number of talents available. In Genesys there are a lot less talents (in the books currently), so the players are limited on the talents. I think with the number of talents to choose from the free purchase system can be abused.

Of course depending on your players this may not be an issue. For some of mine it would have me concerned.

45 minutes ago, AnomalousAuthor said:

Well, that and the fact that specs are built around the inherent assumptions of the setting, and Genesys is billed as a generic RPG with no default setting.

Sam Stewart actually laid that out as being the case. With Genesys being by definition a generic system, there was simply no way to create thematically based talent trees like they could with Star Wars.

Granted, a great many of the complaints like the one TyrisFlare made about how you can't just simply pick and choose what talents you want in Star Wars tend to boil down to "I have to jump through too many hoops to get this one uber-cool talent," but without realizing that Genesys itself sill has those system of hoops, only that you have to build up to many of those "cool" talents, which are likely cheaper in Star Wars due to having to follow a specific progression path as opposed to Genesys' buffet method

As a for instance, something like Renegade Form (Force Outcast, lets you choose any characteristic to use with Lightsaber skills as opposed to the default of Brawn) would probably wind up being a Tier 3 or Tier 4 talent in Genesys, much as something like Dodge (freely available to some Star Wars specs as an entry-level talent) is restricted to being Tier 3 in Genesys.

Genesys talents are super easy to mod to whatever you want though. I've been building an Old Republic doc for a coming game and I basically settled on:

1) LS forms are tier 2 - few people will actually start with them, but you can get them fast since they are essential to actually playing the character.

2) Many of the special talents are still linked to a type. For example, Saber Swarm still requires Ataru to use, the Makashi ones require that, etc.

3) Genesys actually majorly prevents talent stacking. There's no "Colossus" where characters can dip around and end up with twice the wounds of anyone else, nor can you realistically crank out tons of Parry and Reflect ranks.

4) my biggest complaint is that Dedication should be a capstone, not a talent, because it's way too important and drowns out almost all other talents regardless of character archetype.

How do people know what these trees have it them? Have people gotten the book already?

1 minute ago, WillisRBC said:

How do people know what these trees have it them? Have people gotten the book already?

Yes, some people have. Don’t get your hopes up yet, it hasn’t actually been released.

I feel like these trees are make for pre Jedi fall only to make up for the fact that even with 150 extra exp you are still well below Jedi of that time

1 hour ago, WillisRBC said:

How do people know what these trees have it them? Have people gotten the book already?

1 hour ago, AnomalousAuthor said:

Yes, some people have. Don’t get your hopes up yet, it hasn’t actually been released.

There were a limited number of copies available for sale at Star Wars Celebration in Chicago.

1 hour ago, Oldmike1 said:

I feel like these trees are make for pre Jedi fall only to make up for the fact that even with 150 extra exp you are still well below Jedi of that time

I can comfortably make a dozen completely different Jedi with 200 xp and Mentor. You arnt going to be Starkiller (wait, I lied, Starkiller is only 150 XP in the first level) but you can easilly pick up the basics of jedi-ing and fill in your personal specialty.

On 4/22/2019 at 6:27 AM, Daeglan said:

I think the Jedi career makes an awesome 3 spec jedi. Add a lightsaber form of the style you like to round them out.

We now also have the Force Sensitive Outcast, which basically is a slightly cheaper, generic Lightsaber spec.

On 4/21/2019 at 10:27 PM, Daeglan said:

I think the Jedi career makes an awesome 3 spec jedi. Add a lightsaber form of the style you like to round them out.

You can actually do it in 2 specs, consular:niman disciple/jedi knight is an extremely potent and well rounded 2 spec combo.

But if I had 3 specs to play with, they'd be warrior:steelhand adept/niman-disciple/jedi knight with the unmatched ferocity signature ability and ebb/flow and draw closer which per dev ruling work together)

If I had 4 specs they'd be warrior:steelhand adept/niman disciple/padawan survivor(awesome for crafting lightsabers and constant vigilance) /jedi knight

5 specs... warrior:steelhand adept/niman disciple/padawan survivor/jedi knight/martial artist (coordination dodge)

because I'm in a high xp pbp game (eventual xp cap is 2200 total not earned), I tried my hand at making powerful well rounded jedi at 2200 xp (build is pretty similar to the character I made for the pbp).

here it is http://www.mediafire.com/file/faq2z76aar3zzvz/MaximumEliasTake1.pdf/file

BTW I took both Jedi Knight and Jedi Padawan specs but the career is warrior for the unmatched ferocity signature ability

13 hours ago, EliasWindrider said:

because I'm in a high xp pbp game (eventual xp cap is 2200 total not earned), I tried my hand at making powerful well rounded jedi at 2200 xp (build is pretty similar to the character I made for the pbp).

here it is http://www.mediafire.com/file/faq2z76aar3zzvz/MaximumEliasTake1.pdf/file

BTW I took both Jedi Knight and Jedi Padawan specs but the career is warrior for the unmatched ferocity signature ability

I need to fidget with the build a little bit to get time to go as a scar talent, it with enhance force leap as a maneuver lets characters dodge big explosions.