7 hours ago, Bayushi Tsubaki said:It's binder fodder now.
Because there are so many better Fire Provinces for us to run?
7 hours ago, Bayushi Tsubaki said:It's binder fodder now.
Because there are so many better Fire Provinces for us to run?
I think the errata to Tadaka is good but doesn’t make him any less potent. Mostly because it puts the cost in the hands of Phoenix requiring them to interact with their opponent rather than their opponent interact with them. Hey look a reason to play Way of the Phoenix...
On the note of the Scorpion Stronghold, I think this was pretty unnecessary. Even if it was somewhat needed, I think the design could be a little better. Something like add a cost that says: if you are less honorable than your opponent, Bow the stronghold and lose 1 honor: your opponent chooses to give you either 1 fate or 1 honor. That would have the inherent issue of being your opponent’s choice and you will still pay the honor cost. Both effects are good for scorpion but in different ways, and giving the honor nets only the loss of 1 honor and no Scorpion gain. Still...
Restoration of Balance... I think this errata is perfect. It adds counterplay. I doesn’t mean the dragon player can’t help force the break but it does mean that it doesn’t create such the NPE of randomness the on reveal did. I think it is still playable as well. You can still make a province lineup that your opponent just doesn’t want to run into.
1 hour ago, dbmeboy said:I don't see how it makes it that much less valuable. UtD still "wins" in the end. The ruling is just that you're allowed to play the cards that modify skills still (previously had been ruled that they couldn't be played because they didn't alter the game state).
Yeah I don't know. I think read the explanation wrong. I guess it doesn't really matter without a fire role. I'm sure the next time it comes up I'll understand it by then. Lol
57 minutes ago, Ishi Tonu said:Yeah I don't know. I think read the explanation wrong. I guess it doesn't really matter without a fire role. I'm sure the next time it comes up I'll understand it by then. Lol
Oh Fire role mattes as leveraging all your small bodies while neutralizing opponents towers has been a big part of Unicorn's rise to power. I think losing it wont kill them, but it will make a lot of their match ups (especially Phoenix) harder.
Edited by Schmoozies2 hours ago, Schmoozies said:Oh Fire role mattes as leveraging all your small bodies while neutralizing opponents towers has been a big part of Unicorn's rise to power. I think losing it wont kill them, but it will make a lot of their match ups (especially Phoenix) harder.
I meant my understanding (or lack of) on what the actual change to UtD is, because of the new rule, doesn't matter since Unicorn is losing their fire role next week anyways. I'm not playing a Kotei until the end of May so I'll be running KoW.
I think the lack of UtD could be a big deal for the swarming Unicorn decks. I purposely avoided hopping in that bandwagon, but was wavering a bit as my tournament drew closer. Luckily the Unicorn deck I've been testing for many months now is impacted very little by the most recent RL update and the other changes. So I won't have to make the difficult decision switching to the deck that others have been touting, or be forced into playing swarm w/o UtD at the last minute.
I could still end up being completely wrong about my deck (probably the case) but at least any doubts I had about what deck to play are gone because I'm not going to try to come up with something different in less than a month. I'll stick with the horse I rode in on.
Edited by Ishi Tonu3 hours ago, Strange1 said:Hey look a reason to play Way of the Phoenix...
Honestly, probably not. The ability is active while the Earth ring is contested, and with Display of Power odds are pretty good unless they're on your stronghold, you can use use that to steal the ring. If anything, I'd expect to see Wholeness of the World played for this before Way of the Phoenix. Get the Earth ring in your claimed pool, then lock it in there.
Yeah, WotP was MORE relevant with original Tadaka, and people weren't running that jank. I think the nerf to Tadaka was excessive, but if they were going to go that route, the addition of Secluded Shrine just because it can do a poor imitation of old Tadaka is completely unnecessary. Also feel like Restoration was hit *way* too hard. Yeah, you had to play around it, but you also kind of knew it would be somewhere, and had a clear route to do so. It encouraged playing attachments early and then scouting, and there are tons of provinces that encourage that anyways. A nuisance, but nothing outstanding that merited that kind of destruction. I'm okay with the City of the Open Hand nerf, though. Losing honor was fine, but as an engine to fuel multiple assassinates or other self-dishonoring cards that ended up just punishing the opponent was pretty harsh.
All that said, I kind of hate the idea of calling these nerfs 'Errata' as if they were some sort of printing error, and the fact that they live online only is awful. Especially if they're going to nerf cards into oblivion, just ban them instead of inventing new text.
FWIW the article does state that restricting Secluded Shrine is only temporary until some specific upcoming cards are released.
I still believe roles are too restrictive for deckbuilding. Considering how big the RL has grown, does the game need to be even more restricted?
And if the roles need to stay, then only neutral cards should have elemental/(Keeper/Seeker) restrictions. Nothing like getting a Dynasty pack, but can't play any of the cards from your clan from it.
As for Tadaka, he has some counterplay now, but Phoenix is very good at fighting over the rings they want. It basically means PHX players will have to sacrifice more to stick his effect, which might not be a bad thing in certain situations. Late game Tadaka is so much pain after all.
I think some of the errata might have been a bit too hasty.
Neither Restoration of Balance nor City of the Open Hand were on the restricted list, which is something that they could have tried to limit their power. To put an example, I think Restoration of Balance and Niten Master work well together, because both create a sort of “card advantage”. But if both were on the RL and you played Niten Master your opponent would have access to their entire hand to fight it, or if you played RoB, then you wouldn’t be able to use a character that stands so efficiently to get extra value off your attachments.
Tadaka is a bit tougher decision, and they already tried putting it in the RL. His effect is one I don’t see ever becoming bad, though maybe it would become less effective as the card pool grows. As such every Phoenix card that works well with Tadaka would be a contender for the RL, even if it is balanced in every other way.
On the other hand, quite happy with the inclusion of Steward of Law in the RL. I feel like the little bugger was a bit of an auto-include, though not having a cheap character with annoying combos available will definitely hurt.
3 hours ago, Doji Tori said:I think some of the errata might have been a bit too hasty.
Too hasty? They're Core cards. The game's been out for nearly two years. How much more time do we need? These aren't knee-jerk reactions, these are planned, tested errata, that make the game better as a whole.
As a new player to both limited card games and L5R, I have absolutely no problem with the RL, and think it helps new players take a second look at cards to understand why they are so powerful they need to be restricted and therefore learn new strategies/ideas that you could use or may need to defend against.
1 hour ago, twinstarbmc said:Too hasty? They're Core cards. The game's been out for nearly two years. How much more time do we need? These aren't knee-jerk reactions, these are planned, tested errata, that make the game better as a whole.
I meant to say the erratas have been implemented before seeing whether restricting the cards could solve the problem. I find using the RL, if viable, would have been a more aesthetically pleasing solution.
I assume the erratas will have a positive effect, since this cards were often described as a NPE, and it is possible that they found simply restricting them wouldn't be effective.
40 minutes ago, Doji Tori said:I meant to say the erratas have been implemented before seeing whether restricting the cards could solve the problem. I find using the RL, if viable, would have been a more aesthetically pleasing solution.
I assume the erratas will have a positive effect, since this cards were often described as a NPE, and it is possible that they found simply restricting them wouldn't be effective.
Honestly RL wouldn't have solved the problem it would have just effectively banned Resto and completely gutted Scorpion out of City as you can't really rely on just your stronghold to carry you when other key faction cards are locked out as well.
The Restoration of Balance design reminds me of Endless Plains. But imagine that Endless Plains didn't destroy itself.
Some games it kills Shiba Bob the scout that was bought just for that purpose, some games it kills Hida Kisada with 3 fate, essentially winning the game. Then it's still there, waiting to be broken. That's how Restoration of Balance feels to me.
Sometimes, no matter how well a deck is designed, the optimal play demands putting 3 fate on Kisada and rolling the dice on Endless Plains.
Sometimes, no matter how well a deck is designed, the optimal play demands bidding 5 and rolling the dice on Restoration of Balance.
In either situation, it feels bad to play optimally given the situation at hand and then get punished because of bad luck.
I mean, the errata could have had Resto breaking itself to do it's original thing and I would have still been happy.
Edited by Iuchi Toshimo20 hours ago, Kaito Kikaze said:Honestly, probably not. The ability is active while the Earth ring is contested, and with Display of Power odds are pretty good unless they're on your stronghold, you can use use that to steal the ring. If anything, I'd expect to see Wholeness of the World played for this before Way of the Phoenix. Get the Earth ring in your claimed pool, then lock it in there.
Sorry, I was meaning Wholeness. Which would be Jank before, but I could seriously see this version being stupid lockdown.
On 4/30/2019 at 1:54 PM, sndwurks said:Because there are so many better Fire Provinces for us to run?
Honestly? I'd run any other Fire province now.
It's that bad.
Before, it did one (really nice) thing on reveal, and then was a dead card with 3 Province Strength for the rest of the game.
Now, it's sooo much easier to play around that it'll end up a dead card 90% of the time.
A bad fire province that actually works is better than a good one that hardly ever works, imo.
15 hours ago, Schmoozies said:Honestly RL wouldn't have solved the problem it would have just effectively banned Resto and completely gutted Scorpion out of City as you can't really rely on just your stronghold to carry you when other key faction cards are locked out as well.
The effect on Resto would pretty much be the same. If the designers think that Resto is a problem (which it probably is because of the high variance it introduces), they probably should have restricted it and give Dragon something back (PFB imo, because it also gives Crab an incentive to pick Seeker). The with City. Restrict it and unrestrict Rumormonger (or maybe Afwtd).
Both clans weren't good positioned in the metagame and I don't think that this changed.
The Phoenix changes I think are alright. Tadaka was broken and the only realistic alternative was banning him. EtV is also too good combined with fate removal, so a restriction seems reasonable considering that Phoenix was (and maybe is) the top clan.
15 hours ago, Iuchi Toshimo said:The Restoration of Balance design reminds me of Endless Plains. But imagine that Endless Plains didn't destroy itself.
Some games it kills Shiba Bob the scout that was bought just for that purpose, some games it kills Hida Kisada with 3 fate, essentially winning the game. Then it's still there, waiting to be broken. That's how Restoration of Balance feels to me.
Sometimes, no matter how well a deck is designed, the optimal play demands putting 3 fate on Kisada and rolling the dice on Endless Plains.
Sometimes, no matter how well a deck is designed, the optimal play demands bidding 5 and rolling the dice on Restoration of Balance.
In either situation, it feels bad to play optimally given the situation at hand and then get punished because of bad luck.
I mean, the errata could have had Resto breaking itself to do it's original thing and I would have still been happy.
Resto breaking itself would have made it actually stronger.
So I gotta say, I can’t agree with all the post errata negative hype for restoration of balance. Did anyone play Upholding Authority ever? Sure there is counterplay. You think there wasn’t before? As if there had never been Pathfinder’s Blade accessible or Cautious Scout if you were crane or any of the possible solutions for unicorn or the ever popular unicorn splash...
No it’s not as degenerate. But just like so many other cards, if their effect go off you are in the same boat. And uh, so what Fire provinces are you going to play? Abandoning Honor? Wait... that’s on break... Feast or Famine... Fire only and on break... um... illustrious forge? One time maybe and less efficient than any other “draw a card”? Ok so Meditations... wait that gets stopped by the same as current is without the honor effected efficiency...
Basically, start looking at the response to counterplay options. Use whatever is most efficient for you goal. The sky really isn’t falling.