multiple questions:

I have a Tech-priest (or want to make) with Machinator Array, at least one Mechadendrite (Ballistic) with an equipped autopistol and at least one with a melee weapon.

1. can I use the new equipped weapon with a reaction to or is this limited to the standard setup? (I guess yes)

2. as per topic can I burst with that weapon (there are no rules I can find to disallow it i just can use the mechadendrite as a reaction or half action and itself should do the actual action of firing as I interpret it)

3. can I use swift attack if only attacking with a melee weapon and doing no other attacks this round? (I should be able to use swift attack with my offhand it's just about the action types again.)

3. I do use the BS skill with my mechadendrite... does this also apply for melee weapons??? (I guess no)

4. as I equip it with a different weapon rather then that compact laspistol do I get that one back? (to sell it for example) (I guess yes)

5. as there is a power feed to power a las pistol can I equip an not compact las pistol without need for a charge pack? (I guess yes)

6. (if 5. == true) as the potentia coil is increased in strength can I now power a hell -las-pistol with it? (forgot the name)

7. as the potentia coil is increased in strength can I now power up the weapon? (overcharge?)

8. as mechadendrite always count as good craftmanship do I use my SB with melee weapons or do I get a +10 bonus on strength as per good craftmanship quality of bionic limbs (I think yes as it counts as a bionic limb as per errata)

9. can I use 2 of them to wield a 2h melee weapon or one real arm and 1 mechadendrite (or a basic weapon... maybe a selfpowered lasgun now?)

now for questions about other mechadendrites:

10. optical mechadendrite say it is night and I am in a full lit house... do I really get +20 to perception tests??? (guess no)

11. as 10 but in a dark street I do negate darkness penalties and get +20 then I get +10 perception for the mechadendrite itself so I get +30 (making it very easy) to see something as opposed to 10 (regular) at daylight ? (guess yes)

12. having a naval-shield on a gun-mechadendrite is cool but what about a utility mechadendrite to parry (works as well) and a manipulator mechadendrite to (I have TB 6 and SB 4 with machinator array plus 2SB from the mecha (it should already include the +10 for good craftmanship I think) I have a sum of 12 and can carry 112kg with that arm ahving equipment of lets say 40 kg) ask my GM hey can I have a naval shield sized piece of plasteel wall that weights up to 72kg and how much cover AP does it provide? (naval shield provides 8 and weigths 9 so if just duct taping them onto each other I should get (8*9=72) (8*8=64) 8 ontop if each other to get enemies destroy one after another as per cover rules or get a solid wall of 32AP? maybe only 16? or don't I add the +2 SB to carry and lfit with that mecha?

13. how to obtain a mecha? rolling inquiry is not an option as "Adeptus Mechanicus only" is not present in the availabilty table

thx alot

(btw if I'm at it how can one obtain an Omnissian Axe??? troublesome to get my GM give me one and does it do 2d10+6 or 2d5+6 damage? someone said he has a different damage value in his pdf(2d10) as opposed to the book (2d5) and the errata dosn't contain anything)

Nevermind.

Sirion said:

1. Yes, you can use any ballistic mech for a reaction, as it is stated (in errata) that the ballistic can be used for both a normal action or a reaction, but not both in the same round.
2. If you do an attack action with it, yes you can burst, but it will take a full action. For a reaction, no you cannot burst as a reaction as it is a "half-round". And while yes it is the mech "doing the attack" the mech is YOU. It is not an independent creature, so it uses all your skills and action time. That is why it does not have it's own ballistic skill and so forth.
3. You can swift attack for a total of two MELEE attacks. It can be any combination of weapons, and if you activate two-wep fighting with it you can get 3 attacks, but they will all be at the -10 penalty (or worse, if you lack the proper talents). So for swift, you could make 2 attacks main hand melee, 1 attack main and 1 off, or 2 attacks off. Two wep allows you to do 2 attacks main and 1 off combined with swift, but as I stated they will all be at -10 or worse. Keep in mind main and off are relative if you have ambi. Also, if you are using a mecha it states that it functions as your "offhand" normally with no pens for things like lacking the ambi skill.
4. If you attach a melee wep to the ballistic mech it uses your Weapon Skill, as it is no longer shooting. Unless you do something silly and have it mounted with a rocket propelled chainsword. That would be ballistic.
5. You can most likely recover the old weapon (GM has final say).
6. For Las weapons, it's kind of up to your GM what will run off of your Pentra Coil. A normal Las gun? Most likely. Twin Linked Hellgun? You might have a small problem there, but again, up to the GM.
7. If you want to overcharge it, that may be tricky. Would be up to your GM. For me, before I got the Array my GM let me "slot" an overcharge pack into myself to basically use as a fire selector between Pentra and Over.
8. For melee I would side that they would function as a good bionic (as it does state), but that would not change your Weapon skill as that is based upon the quality of the WEAPON for modifiers.
9. It explicitly states that it has to be a pistol or 1 handed melee weapon, as fun as that would be. Now, for wielding a normal weapon, I know plenty of (game) stories of Tech-Priests who lost an arm during combat and instead of dying like a normal person they machined up and used their 1 remaining arm and their manipulator mech to wield their 2 handed axe.
10. What that +20 basically is is the offset of it being dark. Meaning, you can see in the dark. The dark vision has no effect in lit areas, naturally. However, if you read it, it does state the the Optical does provide a natural +10 to all perception tests (built in microphone, sensors, etc) that always functions regardless of light conditions.
11. See 10.
12. Basically it sounds like you want to strap a big freaking chunk of metal to a manipulator. Not very respectful of your machines... but I don't see why it would be impossible but it would be insanely impractical . Your GM might allow it, but I'm nor sure the Mechanicus would be to pleased to see you welding random slabs of steel to yourself.
13. GM. The Mechanicus have a presence on almost every planet, as life as we know it could not function otherwise. However, that doesn't mean they have piles of spare mechadendrites sitting around on every planet either.
14. The Omnissian Axe is a symbol of honor and respect amongst the Mechanicus for exception duty to the cause and is hand (ie machine) crafted for each owner. No two are alike and it is a high crime to steal one or posses one that is not yours. Taking down a powerful and feared Heritek? Good choice. Asking for one nicely talking about how awesome it would be to kill things with? You'll get some funny looks and they might consider how good of a servitor you'd make. Also, there are two versions of the axe. One, is the 2d5 axe which can be located in the Inquisitors Handbook. The other, the 2d10, is in Rogue Trader. This is the exact same universe, so either one is possible, but if you were to get one it would be up to the GM.

thanks...

most of my questions are answered

but you misunderstood 8.

questions is not if I get +10 to WS for better to hit/parry but if I get +10 SB for 1 additional damage

and 12 includes a question about carrying limits... can I add the SB to my carry capacity? this would also be of question with normal (non mecha) good-CM bionic limbs with a +10 bonus... what needs to actually carry my stuff? my arms?(if I hold it in my arms) with a +10 to strength, my body (which I can't upgrade with bionics except for machinator), my legs (which are upgradeable but offer no strength bonus) of course if I stuff it in my backback which I carry on my back the SB from my arm doesn't add but what if carried in my hand/mecha...

for lifting objects the +10 bonus to strength should apply as I see it but carrying? no plan so with 40 toughness and 40 strength and a manipulator mecha +20 strength can I carry for 8 points of weight or for 10? and can I carry for 8 points of weight with my arm and the difference with my mecha?

11. was asked because as I read it it states you gain darkvision && +20 to see in darkness (&& +10 in general)

as difficulties are capped it does make a difference if negating the -20 or getting +20 and it of course makes a difference if I get both which would make me turn out the lights so I can see better

for example I have perception 36 and an optical mecha trying to lipread someone

a) 30 meters away (-20) in the dark (-20) with optical mecha (+10) and +20 for seeing in the dark it would be -10

b) 30 meters away (-20) in the dark (+0) optical mecha +10 > -10

ok I can see it does not make a difference but having both is kinda I turn of the lights to find that hidden clue in the room because I get another +20 to see

The Strength bonus from Bionics is written as “... +10 bonus to Tests”. Melee damage is not a Strength Test.

8, 12 Lifting, Pushing, and Pulling are Strength Tests. Carrying capacity is not a test so no increased capacity. See page 215 "Exceeding Your Carrying Limits" to see where the Str test would apply.

11.You gain a +10 to all perception tests.

You suffer no penalties from Darkness.

You gain a +20 only to Vision based tests at night. IMO this replaces the +10 but does not add to it.

ex. 30 meters away (-20) in the dark (-0) optical mechadendrite Vision test at Night +20 = +/- 0
ex. 30 meters away (-20) in the dark (-0) optical mechadendrite Listen test at Night +10 = -10
ex. 30 meters away (-20) in the daytime (-0) optical mechadendrite Perception Test (Any) +10 = -10

thanks I missed the "only to tests"

I think Filadan has it pretty much covered, but I personally would let you Semi-Auto/Full-Auto fire as part of your reaction. I allow those fire modes for Hip Shooting (because it's **** cool having a dude sprint through a battle firing two pistols like a scene from The Matrix), so I would consider it unfair to disallow a Techpriest to do his own version of what is essentially the same thing. My only hesitation would be if it came to using the Autopistol for suppressing fire actions, because that could get really silly really quickly.

Great. Now I'm imagining a Techpriest chugging along, giving covering fire to his buddies from a moving platform. Cool character idea, really.

That being said, you only get one reaction, so you could only pull it off once per round. Extra reactions like Wall of Steel or Step Aside are specifically for Dodging/Parrying, so are not negotiable for dendrites/logis implant etc. If you could somehow get extra regular reactions though...

GREAT. Now I'm imagining that Maletek Stalker from RH ascending into a 'vindicare', and firing off more autopistols than he has limbs per round. While still retaining enough reactions to dodge/parry his way through everything.

That's DEFINITELY getting statted up.

The Hobo Hunter said:

That's already in my mind since I first read about these extra reactions ;P (but I didn't check yet if these are explicitly dodge reactions and now that I do they may only be used to make a dodge or parry test)

but as Filadan said basically my reaction converts to a half-round standard attack action... where is that taken from? and if so does it block my normal std atack action?

I'll just rearrange the errate to make clear what I read:

"once per round I can use my mechadendrite as a reaction (and reactions don't take palce in my turn) or in my turn as a half action (as if it were my thrid arm) the attack uses my full BS skill (it ignores off hand penalties)"

so as it normaly is a mechadendrite that can shoot lasers only it makes no sense to parry or to dodge with it so it is clear that I can indeed attack with my reaction using my full BS skill, as it normaly can only do single-shots it is obvious that it behaves like a standard attack but nowhere is any hint that it is indeed a standard attack but as it dosn't take place in my turn it does not block my normal standard attack...

machinator array lacks severel rules...

#1 I just attach my chain-axe to my mechadendrite and then can attack with my reaction "using my full Ballistics Skill"... if used as an third arm of course I do use my WS but with my reaction the rules state I use BS... it's common sense to use WS anyway but I wanted to ask anyway to be sure

#2 I attach an autopsitol onto it... uh does it loose brust options when used with a reaction? can I clearly only do single shots with my reaction? can I make melee attacks with my reactions (and what to use for it)?

the required action to change weapons on my mecha is unclear too (and I think I am forced to do a trade armourer craft skill test every time as I know my GM&group)

**** about the VIndicare-dendrites, but oh well. Can't have everything I suppose...

As for the Semi-Auto/Full-Auto, RAW state, if I'm not mistaken (please correct me if I am), that one may make a single attack per round, as a Reaction or as part of the 'regular' actions of the character (their full action per turn).

I'm quite sure that "Auto-fire" (Semi-Auto or Full-Auto) modes are still a single attack. They are not, like Lightning/Swift Attack, or Dual-Weapon-Wielding-resultant Multiple Attack actions, with multiple throws of the dice representing differing attack actions, and a seperate reaction needed for each hit (due to each being a seperate 'attack' per se).

An Auto-fire action uses one throw of the dice, albeit with hefty bonuses and extra hits if successful, but again, it is one attack, with one dice roll, and can be parried/dodged by one valid reaction (provided the DoS are sufficient) in response.

So why can't I, or anyone else for that matter, use that fire mode for Hip Shooting (which I think was changed for RT, so there may be a case for that) or a Ballistic Dendrite's reaction-fire?

There's nothing saying you can't house rule whatever you want. You want the Tech-Priest to do basically nothing but strap Ballistic Mechs and run around full-auto hip firing and full auto reaction firing? Go ahead. Sounds awesome, but I have the feeling you might all the sudden end up with a largely Mechanicus force heh.

I was just stating what the books and errata state about the dendrites. You can use them, once per round, to either make an attack action, or the standard (half-action) reaction. And Hip Shooting, both DH and RT states that you can only do a single shot.

HOWEVER, if you really want to go all balls out nuts with the shooting, just get Auto-Stabilized TRAIT. The thing lets you fire heavy weapons without bracing and all burst and full-auto actions can be done as a half action. It is silly good for heavy gun bunnies.

Magos' do get it in Ascension with the Exemplar of Metal uber-talent-of-ungodly-wtf-awesome-sauce. If you don't want to wait for that, talk to your GM for a way to get it. I mean, a lot of Gun-Servitor models have that trait, so if they can get it and a Magos can (granted, both are different beasts than a normal Tech-Priest) I don't see why you couldn't if you were willing to pay for it as some sort of elite advance. Hell, several of my characters biggest gains have been because of elite advances. The 750 exp for the Mechinator Array are the best exp I think I've ever spent.

Filadan said:

Was this errata'd somewhere? According to the Core rules, a Reaction is not a Half-action. It is It's own '-action' category. All I've seen so far is that the weapon can be fired by the user paying a Reaction. Nowhere has this stated what sort of action this is restricted to. So I would say that anything the weapon can perform (single-shot, auto-firing, suppressing fire, bludgeoning someone with it...) is possible with the expenditure of a Reaction. Because that's what the rules on page 154 state.

The errata states that it can be used as a Half-action on the TP's turn or as a Reaction (though it still doesn't clarify what sort of action the reaction mimics).

By this logic, following your logic with strict RAW the autopistol would never be able to be fired on Full-Auto mode. Because it can only be used as a Half-action or a reaction -> Half-action. That strikes me as a little odd.

I suspect this problem may have arisen due to the fact ballistic dendrites were never really expected to carry anything capable of auto-fire. It might have been 'clarified' before the IH and never really dealt with after that. I mean, it doesn't mention anything about WS in either the actual rules or errata.

The Hobo Hunter said:

I second that.

I am the only tech-priest in my round and not for powergaming (we all didn't knew very much about DH and were starting a new round... the one that read most in the books ended up as a metalician gunslinger his brother as a psyker our third player wanted to make the sozialiser and went for cleric and I wanted to fill the gap and make a mechanic basically then a fifth player joined and finally decided for guardsman over adepta sorroritas). now I'm a Secutor and want to know what rules intended.

Hip shooting grants only a single shot as a "single shot" is the name of the fire mode.

Core books and errata rules for mechadendrites don't go well with machiantor array because they aren't designed to work in conjunction with that rule that didn't existed when it was first written down/errata'd

they probably should make a new rule like machinator array -> you can now use your "mechadendrite (ballistic)" as a "mechadendrite (weapon)" with the following rules: ...

as it is stripping a shield to my mecha and having wall of steel I could parry only once per round with it because a ballistic mecha can only be used once per round either as an action or as an reaction

and at the moment that's my way to go... get an eviscerator and strip a shield to my mecha then get another mecha and strip a gun to it, then learn dual wielder melee and ranged and get another attack for free (prolly a mark 3 sunfury with a laser pointer and depending on the hot shot charge and overcharge rules I need to work out with my gm hopefully doing some cool stuff there)

as money is thight in our campaign this is not happening very soon but it will come to the point where I say, I do attack with my sword, with my mecha, and aim and next round attack both at once with a accurate overcharged mark 3 sunfury (tearing pen 4) and a (tearing pen 5) eviscerator hopefully doing massive damage to that elite nobz ork in his metalcage and his uber toughness

so... can I? can't I?

can I only do half actions and thus never do a dualwield attack with my mecha anyway? can I even do an all out attack with my mecha? (if I do nothing else consuming my full action)

I think it definitely calls for house rules

and another question while I'm at it: a heavy breacher mounted to a mecha is it "mounted as a purpose-built implant" as it is attached in/onto my "arm"/mecha or is it not because I am no servitor or it is not implemented into my body

Sirion said:

I dunno... my copy of the corebook (page 117) says that "As a Full Action, you may simultaneously move up to your Full Move rate and make a single attack with a pistol."

To me, that says you can expend a Full Action to perform any attack action capable by the pistol. This may include suppressing fire (I forget how they're categorised into movement, attacking, etc) and could, RAW, allow you to melee someone with it like a club, but that might be subject to GM Fiat since it is probably 'transmuted' into an Improvised Weapon at that point rather than a pistol if keeping strict RAW.

In the same manner, I don't see how this is any different to Ballistic Mechadendrites, which work on the same principle of stating one "attack", not shot.

The Hobo Hunter said:

Yes, but the later revisions of Hip Shooting, such as that in RT on page 100, states that "This attack can only be single shot - no automatic fire."

However, I have been reading into the wording on the dendrites. The wording is very vague, and even the newest revisions (both errata and RT) don't fully address the fact that you can mount other weapons to them. The fact they are so vague makes me rethink them slightly and I am now unsure exactly how they would be handled. This may be intentional and left somewhat up to GM discretion, but I'd actually like some more solid/official info on it if possible.

Regardless of that, they are still limited to a single attack per round, and they work as your off-hand, thus meaning you can't attack with more than one of them per combat attack.

You can only make one attack action per hand, so no swinging a 2handed axe and and firing off 3 dendrites, as that is technically 4 attacks made with the "off-hand" (the axe being 2handed counts as both a main hand and off-hand attack), and things like Swift Attack only work on melee.

Filadan said:

uh? I'm not saying it's nowhere in the rules but I just wanted to ask where it says something like this?

what about using a 2handed sword to lighning attack your enemy and quickdraw a something to counterattack with your offhand? (or even using your 2h sword again)

as we speak of it I can't use power fists with 2 mechas as they both are the same hand and it needs 2 different hands?

but yes that's what I am criticising... there are no official rules anywhere (although I don't have RT) and it is not only up to us to inperpret it but to create them ourselves (like "we didn't care make your own house-rule")

The Hobo Hunter said:

A little bit of comparative observation here for ya...if it says that you could make a single attack with a pistol, then reasonably, you could also make a single attack with a melee weapon too. And if we use your interpretation of that (single attack= full attack), then we can reasonably state that you could make a swift attack, which is to say more than a single attack. So, single attack=/= full attack, simply because the math doesn't add up.

Illithidelderbrain said:

well maybe he just said a single attack is a single attack on any fire mode the weapon has since a swift attack is not a weaponfiremode... it is not allowed and therefore dosn't break the "math" point is mecha description allows you to make a single attack... _not an attack action_ and it does not define any limits a long burst is just that a single attack... hell if I could weld a forearm weapon on it I'ld ask if I can do a doubleattack (which is again a single attack as stated in the errata with concerns to aim but then again this would only be a single shot and no burst but having two mark 3 sunfurry wit accurate and the aim damage bonus as a reaction each turn would be crazy enough)

Has anyone sent a message to FFG about this issue? Personally with out asking I would say it is limited to a single shot. I don't see how you would get a full action for spending a reaction, it just seems a bit inconsistant with everything. You full auto with guns in your hands on your turn and then as a reaction at some point in the round you full auto again? Two full actions? Just doesn't add up. This kinda came up with some one wanting to full auto with dual shot. The wording says attacks but it is meant for a single shot. Just something to think about.

Khorne-ucopia said:

good point. then again what about melee? they don't have single shots so basically I can mount them on my mecha but can't use them with a reaction?

stilll unanswered: can I use my melee-mecha to all out attack? (I can use it as a reaction or a half action on my turn)

no I didn't send a message to FFG and wouldn't know who to adress

and another one came up...

having a optical mecha and a ballistics mecha I can hide behind complete cover and shoot anything if they want to shoot me in return the random hit table always hits cover because mechas don't show up there... forcing the enemies to make called shots or shoot (trough) the cover... as a optical mecha is as thick as a pencil if I want it to is a standard -20 to attack it reasonable? (bolter bullets should be larger (I don't have any proof or source) so what if I say I take my lascutter to cut a tiny peeky hole into the cover then only my gun mecha would need to be a valid target

If you scroll to the bottom of the page there is a link to rules questions, it is in light grey writing. Send them all of your questions and Ross or one of the Dev's will answer you back with in a day. FFG is great like that.

As far as the melee mech, again All out attack is a full action, I would allow only half actions on a reaction.

well no response by now :/

as I don't get any response I'll stick with: (house rules)

can be used as an attack -reaction only if not used with any other action this round

can be used like your off hand otherwise (with the attached weapon only and it doesn't work with any kind of 2h weapon so bursts and multiple attacks are ok as well as 2 parries with wall of steel)

never get's -20 for offhand to BS/WS

the reaction attack bascially works like a delayed action for interruption and tests and as it does not happen to be on your turn it does not block your 1 attack action on your turn so it let's you do any half-action attack that is supported by the weapon (auto stabilised-> bursts)

Mack just snwered:

"Regardless, however, a reaction can only do a single shot."

as well as multiple parries are okay as well as a swift attack with a chain-axe on a ballistics mecha and of course melee weapons are used with WS

How... unexpected.

Sirion said:

Figured it'd be something like this... Though, the idea of a chain-axe 'dendrite seems a bit much; I'd rather a powerblade if we're gonna go melee with the 'dendrite. I figure the delayed response stemmed from the transition process and Mack needing some time to get all adjusted and ready to go.

-=Brother Praetus=-