Example Combat?

By lurkingowl, in Rules Questions

Posted at

Is there a worked example combat somewhere I can look at? I'm trying to settle into the rules, and having a sort of standard combat would help.

Specific questions:

Does physical resistance reduce critical strikes from damage?

Does physical resistance reduce "direct" critical strikes from things like the Strike ** ability?

Is the critical strike from the Strike ** ability applied in addition to the normal damage?

Can Water stance just take Calming Breath in addition to the normal Attack most rounds? Is this common?

My general impression is that a lot of fights end up sitting in Earth stance to stop stray criticals, unless you're foolhardy, or think you're safe, or have someone protecting you. With the possible counter-intuitive exception of Hida characters?

Posted at
29 minutes ago, lurkingowl said:

Is there a worked example combat somewhere I can look at? I'm trying to settle into the rules, and having a sort of standard combat would help.

Specific questions:

Does physical resistance reduce critical strikes from damage?

Does physical resistance reduce "direct" critical strikes from things like the Strike ** ability?

Is the critical strike from the Strike ** ability applied in addition to the normal damage?

Can Water stance just take Calming Breath in addition to the normal Attack most rounds? Is this common?

My general impression is that a lot of fights end up sitting in Earth stance to stop stray criticals, unless you're foolhardy, or think you're safe, or have someone protecting you. With the possible counter-intuitive exception of Hida characters?

earth stance is problematic throughout.

-makes duels to first blood and first strike, "weird" as it makes initiative and skill not the main thing, making most duels a composure/endurance marathon.


-is boring in skirmishes, especially on NPCs (your PC can't crit them). sure there are ways around it, but it is not fun and resolve around using specific techniques or anti-climactic kiting.

I don't see a reason why earth Stance shouldn't be like Air stance:
+1 opportunity cost if you want to do a crit or apply a condition.
+2 opportunity cost at rank 4.

oh. well.

edit: AIR !

Edited by Avatar111
Posted at
30 minutes ago, lurkingowl said:

Is there a worked example combat somewhere I can look at? I'm trying to settle into the rules, and having a sort of standard combat would help.

Specific questions:

Does physical resistance reduce critical strikes from damage?

Does physical resistance reduce "direct" critical strikes from things like the Strike ** ability?

Is the critical strike from the Strike ** ability applied in addition to the normal damage?

Can Water stance just take Calming Breath in addition to the normal Attack most rounds? Is this common?

My general impression is that a lot of fights end up sitting in Earth stance to stop stray criticals, unless you're foolhardy, or think you're safe, or have someone protecting you. With the possible counter-intuitive exception of Hida characters?

No*, no, yes, yes, maybe.

Note that Avatar mistook Water and Air stances in his post.

EDIT: * There's one situation in which this answers is "yes" - if your resistance reduces the damage to 0, then there's nothing for you to be unable to defend against, and therefore you don't get a crit.

Edited by JBento
Posted at
2 minutes ago, JBento said:

No, no, yes, yes, maybe.

I never answer the main questions do I ? :D

Posted at
5 hours ago, lurkingowl said:

Is there a worked example combat somewhere I can look at? I'm trying to settle into the rules, and having a sort of standard combat would help.

Specific questions:

Does physical resistance reduce critical strikes from damage?

Does physical resistance reduce "direct" critical strikes from things like the Strike ** ability?

Is the critical strike from the Strike ** ability applied in addition to the normal damage?

Can Water stance just take Calming Breath in addition to the normal Attack most rounds? Is this common?

My general impression is that a lot     of fights end up sitting in Earth stance to stop stray criticals, unless you're foolhardy, or think you're sa  fe, or have someone protecting you.   With the possible counter-intuitive exception of  Hida chara  c  te  rs   ?  

Counter the approach: if characters consistently turtle up, peg them with arrows from afar until they switch to water.

Posted at
11 minutes ago, T_Kageyasu said:

Counter the approach: if characters consistently turtle up, peg them with arrows from afar until they switch to water.

not. fun.

...but maybe he does have a range weapon too!

and yes, you CAN counter earth stance, its just not fun that it makes so many things straight up useless. it is too binary.
plus it screws up duels. I just don't see how it is FUN design.

not broken, not "OP", nothing like that. and yes, stance have to feel strong. it's just a tad... booooring.

(I didn't houserule it or anything, despite my urge too. Though I still am of the opinion that such radical effect is not something that I find enjoyable or logical)

Posted at
40 minutes ago, Avatar111 said:

not. fun.

...but maybe he does have a range weapon too!

and yes, you CAN counter earth stance, its just not fun that it makes so many things straight up useless. it is too binary.
plus it screws up duels. I just don't see how it is FUN design.

not broken, not "OP", nothing like that. and yes, stance have to feel strong. it's just a tad... booooring.

(I didn't houserule it or anything, despite my urge too. Though I still am of the opinion that such radical effect is not something that I find enjoyable or logical)

I don't disagree with you on earth stance, as the earlier editions equivalent of increasing TN to reduce damage was more balanced with the other stances you could take. The new system is firmly bound to the strife and fatigue gauges. I think increasing the fitness check to reduce criticals might have been a better mechanic rather than mimicking air. For example, multiply success results to reduce a critical threat by x2 rather than outright preventing opponents from spending Opps to threaten a crit. But this response isn't in "houserules" so I'll curtail the target conversation here.

Edited by T_Kageyasu
clarity
Posted at

For an example duel, here's one I wrote. It was me testing the system rather than trying to show off how to use the system, so I'm not certain how well it will work for learning.

Warning: it's pretty long.

A duel between characters fresh from creation. All of the rolls are real.

A minor court in Scorpion lands…

Yasuki Hideo has given great offense to Doji Masayoshi. Kakita Takakazu seeks to defend the honor of his charge and requests a duel. Yasuki Hideo accepts, and his yojimbo Hiruma Konyo offers himself as champion. The duel is a serious matter and will be settled by Iaijutsu to first blood. Hiruma is confident despite the reputation of his opponent’s school.

Each combatant wears their daisho and ceremonial clothing. They take their stances across from one another.

Initiative in a duel is a TN 1 Meditation roll. If they succeed, they will add 1 plus any bonus successes to their Focus value. This will be their initiative value for the duel.

Kakita Takakazu will take Air stance. With his Ring score of 3 and his 2 Meditation, his rolls 3 ring dice and 2 skill dice. He rolls Ex+St (skill), Su+Op (skill), Su (ring), Su (ring), Op (ring). He will keep both skill dice and one of the Su result ring dice. The Ex nets him an addition Op, for 1 strife, 2 opportunities, and 3 successes. His Focus is 4, so his base Initiative value will be 7. He will use his two air opportunities to learn one of his opponent’s disadvantages (Hiruma Konyo has Impatience) and to keep an additional ring die set to Op on his next Martial check.

Hiruma Konyo will also take Air stance. His Air is also 3, but his Meditation is only 1, so he will roll 3 ring dice and 1 skill die. He rolls Ex+St (skill), Su+St (ring), Op (ring), Blank (ring). He will keep all but the blank. The Ex again nets an additional Op, for 2 strife, 1 opportunity, and 2 successes. His Focus is again 4, so his base Initiative is 6.

Start of Round 1:
Staredown:
Each character receives 1 strife. Kakita bids 0 strife. Hiruma goes all in and bids 4 strife. Before they take their turns, here is where they stand:

Kakita Takakazu
Initiative: 7+0=7
0 Fatigue / 8 Endurance
1 Strife / 10 Composure
1 / 1 Void Point

Hiruma Konyo
Initiative: 6+4=10
0 Fatigue / 6 Endurance
6 Strife / 10 Composure
1 / 1 Void Point

Hiruma Konyo will go first. Without wasting any time, he assumes Water stance, uses his bonus action to Prepare his katana, and uses his action to attack. His Water is 3 and his Martial Arts (Melee) is 2, and he’s going to use his Void Point right away for an extra ring die. The attack is against a TN of 3, as Kakita Takakazu is in Air stance. The roll does not turn out how he wants, with 3 blank dice, Su+Op, Su, and Op+St. He will keep only the Su+Op, using the Opportunity to remove 2 strife from himself. His action was a big risk that did not pay off, but hopefully he has mitigated some of the damage. After his failed attack action, he uses his school ability to shift to Earth stance.

Kakita Takakazu takes his turn, and he stays in Air stance. He is the soul of patience, and uses his turn to Center, rolling skill dice equal to his Martial Arts (Melee) score of 2. He rolls Su+Op and Op. He reserves these dice for later.

Start of Round 2:
Staredown
Each character receives 2 strife, and they each cool off this turn, bidding 0 strife. Hiruma is in Earth stance, so he feels he is pretty safe from losing the duel this turn.

Kakita Takakazu
Initiative 7+0=7
0 Fatigue / 8 Endurance
3 Strife / 10 Composure
1 / 1 Void Point

Hiruma Konyo
Initiative 6+0=6
0 Fatigue / 6 Endurance
6 Strife / 10 Composure
0 / 1 Void Point

Kakita Takakazu goes first this time. He stays in Air stance and Predicts Hiruma will use Water Stance.

Hiruma Konyo is in a pickle. He does not know what Kakita predicted, just that he predicted something (and depending on how the GM runs it, maybe not even that much). He would prefer to use Water stance to Calming Breath or Center before he attempts to attack again, but that seems the most likely pick for Predict. He assumes Air stance instead. He lashes out at his opponent. The roll is once more 3 ring dice and 2 skill dice against a TN of 2. He rolls Ex, Su+St, Su+St, Su+St. Does he suffer strife, knowing that any will put him over in the next staredown? He holds back, swinging wide but maintaining his composure a little longer.

Start of Round 3:
Staredown
Each player gains 3 strife. Neither risk bidding any strife.

Kakita Takakazu
Initiative 7+0=7
0 Fatigue / 8 Endurance
6 Strife / 10 Composure
1 / 1 Void Point

Hiruma Konyo
Initiative 6+0=6
0 Fatigue / 8 Endurance
9 Strife / 10 Composure
0 / 1 Void Point

Kakita Takakazu takes a Calming Breath, removing 1 Strife.

The tension is rising, and Hiruma Konyo needs a lot of luck. He’s panicking, and takes a swing in Air Stance. Ex+St (ring), Ex+St (ring), Su (ring), Su+St (skill), Su+St (skill). One way or another, he will be compromised soon, so he keeps the ring dice. The explosions are insane, and he nets several more explosions, ending with 5 strife, 1 opportunity, and 6 successes. The strife resolves first, and he goes to 14 strife, becoming Compromised.

Kakita Takakazu seizes the moment to deliver a Finishing Blow, relying on his training. He draws and slices in one smooth motion. His roll will be 3 ring dice, 2 skill dice, plus an additional skill die for burning his Void Point, and he has an extra ring die set to Op from his opportunity during initiative. He rolls Ex (skill), Op (skill), Op (ring), Op (ring), Op+St (ring), Blank (ring), and has an additional Op (ring) from his previous opportunity. He uses the Su+Op (skill) from his Center action to replace the Op+St (ring). He keeps Ex, Su+Op, Op. The explosion nets another Op.

The opportunities resolve first, and Takakazu will use both to make the action particularly subtle. It will be a moment before anyone realizes that the Kakita has even drawn. Iaijutsu Cut: Rising Blade uses the opponent’s Vigilance as its TN, and since Hiruma Konyo is Compromised, his Vigilance is 1. The attack is an automatic Critical Hit equal to twice the Deadliness of Kakita Takakazu’s one-handed gripped katana, so 10.

Hiruma Konyo rolls Fitness in Air to resist. His Fitness is 2, so he rolls 3 ring, 2 skill. He rolls Su+St (skill), Blank (skill), Su+St (ring), Op (ring), Blank (ring). Compromised, he cannot keep any result with strife, so he keeps the opportunity. The opportunity means essentially nothing, but he will spend it narratively to express grace in defeat.

Kakita Takakazu does what he can to minimize the damage, reducing the Severity by his school rank, but that is only 1, bringing the Severity down to 9 and not changing the effect whatsoever. Hiruma Konyo receives a Maiming Blow as the blade slices his throat. He is Bleeding, but the wound, despite its ghastly appearance, is not fatal. However, his vocal chords have been irrevocably damaged, and he gains the Muteness disadvantage.

The duel ends at the resolution of the Finishing Blow, and Konyo’s attack never finishes. Kakita Takakazu gets 6 points for completing the objective, 3 points for striking first, and 9 points for inflicting the critical strike, amounting to 18 points compared to Konyo’s 0 points. “No contest” barely does Kakita Takakazu’s performance justice.

Posted at
12 hours ago, lurkingowl said:

Does physical resistance reduce critical strikes from damage?

No.

12 hours ago, lurkingowl said:

Does  physical resistance reduce "direct" critical strikes from things like the Strike ** ability?

No

12 hours ago, lurkingowl said:

Is the critical strike from the Strike ** ability applied in addition to the normal damage?

Yes

12 hours ago, lurkingowl said:

Can Water stance just take Calming Breath in addition to the normal Attack most rounds? Is this common?

Broadly speaking, yes. Since you can't take the same action type (so no strike/strike or strike/assist), or one which requires a check, assuming you're trying to stab someone with your main action, the other one generally boils down to calming breath to recover fatigue or strife, or maneuver to..well....outmaneuver someone.

12 hours ago, lurkingowl said:

My general impression is that a lot of fights end up sitting in Earth stance to stop stray criticals, unless you're foolhardy, or think you're safe, or have someone protecting you. With the possible counter-intuitive exception of Hida characters?

Very much depends who and what you're fighting. Since minions don't spend 1211841275_OpportunitySmall.png.acf41343 on anything other than their own 'profile' abilities, being in earth stance against a squad of goblins doesn't really help you; they need to chop through your endurance (and resistance) to incapacitate you before you take criticals anyway, so unless you have a specific technique like striking-as-earth, or a significantly higher earth ring, you'r getting no benefit compared to air stance (harder to hit you), water stance (recovering 1 fatigue per turn) or fire stance (more likely to put a minion down with each swing, reducing the number of dice behind each incoming strike).

Equally, a 'stray critical' isn't always that bad. Assuming it's a relatively low deadliness attack, a character with a decent fitness can mitigate it down to 'armour damaged' without too much trouble. If the alternative is being incapacitated in the middle of a skirmish by a dozen fatigue in one hit from a fire-stance blow from an otsuchi, it's frankly getting away almost scot-free. There's a reason the option to not defend against attacks exists.

Equally equally, earth stance doesn't stop criticals. It stops criticals, conditions, etc being inflicted by your opponent spending 1211841275_OpportunitySmall.png.acf41343 . If, instead, they're performing an action whose 'success effect' drops the condition on you (like Flowing Water Strike or Heartpiercing Strike) you'd have been better off in Air stance to avoid being hit in the first place.

12 hours ago, Avatar111 said:

I don't see a reason why earth Stance shouldn't be like Air stance:
+1 opportunity cost if you want to do a crit or apply a condition.
+2 opportunity cost at rank 4.

Honestly, that's quite a nice idea. I don't mind the intent of earth stance, but making it harder to inflict an effect rather than making you immune seems more sensible. Taking it to logical extremes; if Ashigaru Jim-Bob the Smelly is being attacked with a strike action by Seppun Ishikawa, captain of the Imperial Seppun Honour Guard, the idea (narratively) that he couldn't land something you would consider a critical strike with his first blow, no matter what he does is ridiculous.

Make it as hard as you like , provided the possibility is there (an NPC like that will have enough dice to throw at it).

Edited by Magnus Grendel