1 hour ago, Estarriol said:Han was exactly like this in 1.0. I don’t get the fuss. Edit, I know he didn’t get ID. don’t shout at me. I just do t think it’s that big of a deal.
If you don't think arbitrarily high numbers of at-will white stops are a big deal, well, I think you're wrong.
if y'all think fat ships with too many upgrades and multiple firing arcs and built in action economy isn't a problem, I think you're wrong too. 😃
1 hour ago, Hiemfire said:Delete the Illicit slot from the Rebel Falcon. That simple. I'd like them to actually yank it from every ship not in Scum at the same time for that matter. Maybe it'll speed up the addition of more functional and viable Illicits if they don't have to take upgrades and pilots from 3 separate factions into account when they develop cards for the slot.
This sounds like the most reasonable solution I've heard.
The sky is falling! /S
so Fat Han won an extended event. Good. At least it breaks up the monotony of that format. Better than 4 cloaky bois.
People need to mostly let go of their 1.0 hate.
Now, caution is good, but suggesting changes after 1 event? That’s kinda silly. (Unless under extreme measures). I’d say keep an eye on, and if it’s still dominating in two-three weeks then emergency fix it. We kind of already have a precedence set with trip ups.
6 minutes ago, FlyingAnchors said:1 event?
Just now, Boom Owl said:
Did it win more than one?
6 minutes ago, FlyingAnchors said:The sky is falling! /S
so Fat Han won an extended event. Good. At least it breaks up the monotony of that format. Better than 4 cloaky bois.
People need to mostly let go of their 1.0 hate.
Now, caution is good, but suggesting changes after 1 event? That’s kinda silly. (Unless under extreme measures). I’d say keep an eye on, and if it’s still dominating in two-three weeks then emergency fix it. We kind of already have a precedence set with trip ups.
It's the combination of Fat Han that has echoes of Trajectory Simulator Nym. That kind of lineage is worrying.
14 minutes ago, FlyingAnchors said:Now, caution is good, but suggesting changes after 1 event? That’s kinda silly. (Unless under extreme measures). I’d say keep an eye on, and if it’s still dominating in two-three weeks then emergency fix it. We kind of already have a precedence set with trip ups.
It's not the winning, it's that it plays a completely different game. The ability to dial in a fast maneuver, and then on your initiative decide, "Nah, I'm cool staying here," is almost impossible to pin down. Adding boost on a large ship (shudder) makes it even worse.
This is one of those examples of, "It looks like I'm playing X-wing..." but really your opponent is the only one playing and you are just going through the motions.
13 minutes ago, Parakitor said:It's not the winning, it's that it plays a completely different game. The ability to dial in a fast maneuver, and then on your initiative decide, "Nah, I'm cool staying here," is almost impossible to pin down. Adding boost on a large ship (shudder) makes it even worse.
This is one of those examples of, "It looks like I'm playing X-wing..." but really your opponent is the only one playing and you are just going through the motions.
Okay That makes a little more sense. Now my counterpoint:
If you don’t expect it, sure. Now that the cat is out of the bag, if you’re going up against this, can/would you plan in such a way to cover both ends? I believe you can approach it so that the 4 straight results in a bump, basically either forcing the boost from the zero. Can you do this every round, no. Can you do it enough rounds so that Fat Han burns down? I believe so yes.
Like I said, I think this is another Trip ups, it’s not as broken as it seems on first glance, but I still expect FFG to dismantle/nerf it at some point for the health of the game, and the speed of that I believe will tied to frequency of wins/ top cuts.
Winning isn’t the issue. While there are lists like quad phantoms that are undercosted and have ridiculous win and cut rates, the ID/R2/Kanan combo is straight up an NPE. The ability to choose from so many options with perfect board knowledge and still get full mods is exactly what 2.0 strived to avoid, so I wouldn’t be surprised if ffg drops the illicit slot from the ship (and hopefully all non-scum ships) in the coming weeks.
4 hours ago, Estarriol said:Han was exactly like this in 1.0. I don’t get the fuss.
That is the fuss. If this sort of thing isn't fixed, then what was the point of starting a new edition?
4 hours ago, Biophysical said:I have genuinely been looking at Seismics in extended lists if there's a good ship that can take them. Taking away rerolls from a chunnk of the board makes a big difference.
TIE Strikers can be pretty decent with them.
10 minutes ago, FlyingAnchors said:Okay That makes a little more sense. Now my counterpoint:
If you don’t expect it, sure. Now that the cat is out of the bag, if you’re going up against this, can/would you plan in such a way to cover both ends? I believe you can approach it so that the 4 straight results in a bump, basically either forcing the boost from the zero. Can you do this every round, no. Can you do it enough rounds so that Fat Han burns down? I believe so yes.
Like I said, I think this is another Trip ups, it’s not as broken as it seems on first glance, but I still expect FFG to dismantle/nerf it at some point for the health of the game, and the speed of that I believe will tied to frequency of wins/ top cuts.
This is exactly my problem with it, though. You're not coming to the battle with a strategy or tactic; you're coming with a trick. If the opponent doesn't know the trick, you win! If they do, they win. Rather than having a game of planning and response, you reduce everything to either the trick working or not working.
4 hours ago, Biophysical said:I have genuinely been looking at Seismics in extended lists if there's a good ship that can take them. Taking away rerolls from a chunnk of the board makes a big difference.
I really like to fly Sol Sixxa with Skilled Bombardier. That range!
30 minutes ago, JJ48 said:If they do, they win.
🤨 Have you tried to chew through the health on a regenning IDK Han? Getting good shots on him can be tricky enough, getting enough through his dice to make an impact is even worse. R2 crew recharging the shield doesn't help.
Man, Han is so fat, he's now inert...
5 minutes ago, MasterShake2 said:Man, Han is so fat, he's now inert...
Mega chonk Han?
Wait, is Han becoming Jabba? Can we call this build Jabba-Han?
8 hours ago, JJ48 said:That is the fuss. If this sort of thing isn't fixed, then what was the point of starting a new edition?
Because he wasn’t really overpowered. Like swarms, everyone seems to have forgotten how we played 1.0 in Wave 3. Play patiently and block him in. Sure there are in theory many places he can end up, but in reality one of those screws him over next turn, another is covered by a rock and you’ve blocked the other two moves, and once he’s in a corner you’ve got him.
I'd be very interested to see how the build holds up against a TIE swarm, especially if said swarm has got Admiral Sloane in the mix. I strongly doubt it would end well for Han.
Jack Mooney flew Han exceptionally well through that tournament. He also flew Jake Farrell exceptionally well. He happens to be one of the most successful Han-Jake users in 1.0. I hope people try this build out because most people will probably realize it´s not that easy to pull off.
In that UK System Open we had 2 Han lists in the top 64. We had 9 4xPhantoms lists and 1 3xPhantoms in the same top 64. Sure, Han-Jake won with some great player skills involved. I think a lot of people were rooting for Han in this environment. I hope FFG leaves Han alone, he´s still an underdog in the meta.
24 minutes ago, Sixter said:Jack Mooney flew Han exceptionally well through that tournament. He also flew Jake Farrell exceptionally well. He happens to be one of the most successful Han-Jake users in 1.0. I hope people try this build out because most people will probably realize it´s not that easy to pull off.
In that UK System Open we had 2 Han lists in the top 64. We had 9 4xPhantoms lists and 1 3xPhantoms in the same top 64. Sure, Han-Jake won with some great player skills involved. I think a lot of people were rooting for Han in this environment. I hope FFG leaves Han alone, he´s still an underdog in the meta.
Additionally, having watched Jack's top 8 and semi-final matches on Youtube, he only won due to rolling better dice thoughout both games. The semi-final would have gone the other way if Kevin had done a single point of damage more to Han - he had shots, he rolled only 1 or 2 hits multiple times despite having a focus token each time; he also rolled a lot of blanks on his green dice to take more damage than he should have done.
So, don't over-react to this list because it 'won'. Quad Phantoms should still beat it and are by far the most consistent winners in extended. 9 out of the top 64 lists were multiple phantoms, I think.
Try out some games, flying it and against it - then highlight whether it's really an NPE that needs dealing with or something that normally loses so much that people won't bother using it. The only real NPE it has seems to be the same compaint that I have when facing Whisper and other high Init repositioning aces: if my opponent is better than me (which does happen quite frequently), I almost never get to shoot back and they win without me feeling like I've participated much!
Somebody tell me about this multi-phantom list. I am fascinated.
6 minutes ago, Captain Lackwit said:Somebody tell me about this multi-phantom list. I am fascinated.
Most were the standard 3 Sigmas with Juke, plus one Sigma with Crackshot. One version dropped the Crackshot for a bid in the mirror match. And one of the top 64 had only 3 phantoms, probably the lower Init generic plus Vader. There have been a lot of them around in all the System Open events...
1 hour ago, Sixter said:I hope FFG leaves Han alone, he´s still an underdog in the meta.
This is the second system open in a row with parking break Han on the final table.
3 hours ago, Estarriol said:Because he wasn’t really overpowered. Like swarms, everyone seems to have forgotten how we played 1.0 in Wave 3. Play patiently and block him in. Sure there are in theory many places he can end up, but in reality one of those screws him over next turn, another is covered by a rock and you’ve blocked the other two moves, and once he’s in a corner you’ve got him.
So simple!
And yet none of the best players in the world managed it over something like 13 rounds and he managed to win the biggest event of all time WITHOUT LOSING A SHIP until the Quarter Finals.
20 minutes ago, svelok said:This is the second system open in a row with parking break Han on the final table.
Vs 43 phantoms in the top cut (this time)? And that's after they were nerfed!
FAt Han might need looking at; Juke Phantoms definitely need looking at again! My personal fix for Juke drops it to 1pt but spends the evade to use it, but that would mean changing the words so it won't happen.
I'd also change the Kanan/ID interaction so the stress is applied after Kanan's window.
3 hours ago, Estarriol said:Because he wasn’t really overpowered. Like swarms, everyone seems to have forgotten how we played 1.0 in Wave 3. Play patiently and block him in. Sure there are in theory many places he can end up, but in reality one of those screws him over next turn, another is covered by a rock and you’ve blocked the other two moves, and once he’s in a corner you’ve got him.
Who said anything about overpowered? Whether or not he's OP has nothing to do with whether or not he fits the game.
Something like 4x Phantoms or 4x Y-Wings may be potent and frustrating to play against, but at least they still feel like X-Wing. The opponent has to decide on the right maneuvers and try to predict where I'll be to some degree. The guessing game is still there.
Being able to move last and with perfect knowledge while still being able to choose vastly different endpoints--as well as making arcs irrelevant--just raises the question of "why bother?" Whether I can beat it or not, why would I want to play against a list that's ignoring all the important parts of the game? I'm a casual player; I don't care about points or number of wins. I'm playing the game to have fun, and if this sort of garbage is making a return, we may as well have stuck with 1E.