3 minutes ago, TheCeilican said:

This has been tried and it didn’t work, although Ben Lee got close in the top 8 at the System Open. He fortressed his quad phantoms for most of the game until he was forced to commit.

Yeah, there was also another game I heard where the +1 shield was enough to put Jack's Han back above half threshold, so he won that game. Its not fullproof, but I think there is a game there. I also think we're getting sidetracked with, "can it be beaten" which as I've been told, is not the question here

My sithpost thread about losing the illicit slot has just been deleted. Here's to hoping that means something. If not..."boring conversation anyway. Luke, we got company!"

Upon further consideration, I'm thinking the only way to solve the problem of parking brake Han is to strip Han (and just Han) of the illicit slot.

I do think it's a problem btw. Much like Tripsilon, it breaks the core mechanic of the game (flying). Stripping the illicit from Han would be the least invasive cure, and it might prove less effective on the other Falcon pilots because of the lower initiative and lack of built in rerolls.

1 minute ago, knute said:

Upon further consideration, I'm thinking the only way to solve the problem of parking brake Han is to strip Han (and just Han) of the illicit slot.

Han Solo, smuggler, would be the only YT-1300 pilot without an illicit slot. 😆

Anyway, I think the problem is Han's Ability. It's the lynchpin that lets him mitigate R2-D2's drawback, and unlocks the ID "exploit". And once again showing that you can't balance the game only with points and slots.

1 minute ago, Koing907 said:

And  once again showing that you can't balance the game only with points  and slots.

You can balance the game with it. But you can't balance every single component at the same time just by points

5 minutes ago, knute said:

Upon further consideration, I'm thinking the only way to solve the problem of parking brake Han is to strip Han (and just Han) of the illicit slot.

I do think it's a problem btw. Much like Tripsilon, it breaks the core mechanic of the game (flying). Stripping the illicit from Han would be the least invasive cure, and it might prove less effective on the other Falcon pilots because of the lower initiative and lack of built in rerolls.

A combination of either losing the illicit or just reversing the ID+Kanan ruling; plus a price increase on R2 Crew Luke (why did this ever get cheaper?), and maybe? Han himself (he really didn't need the 10 point drop, he just needed the proton torpedo nerf) seems like the best fix for Han. At the end of the day, like Boba before him he probably should've never had chargeless rerolls, but that ship has sailed.

14 minutes ago, kris40k said:

Yeah, there was also another game I heard where the +1 shield was enough to put Jack's Han back above half threshold, so he won that game. Its not fullproof, but I think there is a game there. I also think we're getting sidetracked with, "can it be beaten" which as I've been told, is not the question here

Very true, it’s not.

36 minutes ago, GreenDragoon said:

You can balance the game with it. But you can't balance every single component at the same time just by points

This is so important.

Sometimes things just don't have a real window where they are "balanced". And as such should be nerfed in competitive play.

42 minutes ago, GreenDragoon said:

You can balance the game with it. But you can't balance every single component at the same time just by points

And even if they're balanced, it doesn't necessarily mean they fit the game.

7 hours ago, Dreadai said:

"I don't think it's that bad"

Is this a self nomination? 😂

Just saw this on facebook in the mynock group:

Quote

At the Hannover system open, not seeing phantoms yet, but every other mat has a falcon.

Unfortunately I doubt we will get all the lists to know the actual number.

_if_ this is true, this is where it really becomes a problem. List diversity is one of the best features of 2.0.

But equally it says more about the x-wing community, that (unscientific and unsupported) statement suggests that 25% of players would rather copy someone else’s success than play the game. Still fewer than triple jumps mind you.

May all these waac players draw each other. Six mirror matches is the best punishment I can think of!

32 minutes ago, Estarriol said:

_if_ this is true, this is where it really becomes a problem. List diversity is one of the best features of 2.0.

But equally it says more about the x-wing community, that (unscientific and unsupported) statement suggests that 25% of players would rather copy someone else’s success than play the game. Still fewer than triple jumps mind you.

May all these waac players draw each other. Six mirror matches is the best punishment I can think of!

Of course "every other" is hyperbolic. Lists are generally perceived to be everywhere when they reach around 10% of the field (like e.g. Ghost Fenn did, at 10.1%). Unfortunately I never looked at it during the trip jumps era, but I doubt it was above 20%. Sheathipede reached 20.8%, and it was in two very popular lists a year ago: GhostFenn and 100ptMiranda. I said in my second post in this thread that "Success/high frequency changes it from 'just' NPE to a problem that needs attention. NPE can be enough to get that attention, but if it's also good then it requires a very good lool by FFG " and I still think so.

I wouldn't shame them for taking their best option at a large, yearly event. And it's definitely questionable to wish them an unfun day by drawing that list, after you spent 17 pages arguing that the list is not a negative play experience.

7 hours ago, GreenDragoon said:

Of course "every other" is hyperbolic. Lists are generally perceived to be everywhere when they reach around 10% of the field (like e.g. Ghost Fenn did, at 10.1%). Unfortunately I never looked at it during the trip jumps era, but I doubt it was above 20%. Sheathipede reached 20.8%, and it was in two very popular lists a year ago: GhostFenn and 100ptMiranda. I said in my second post in this thread that "Success/high frequency changes it from 'just' NPE to a problem that needs attention. NPE can be enough to get that attention, but if it's also good then it requires a very good lool by FFG " and I still think so.

I wouldn't shame them for taking their best option at a large, yearly event. And it's definitely questionable to wish them an unfun day by drawing that list, after you spent 17 pages arguing that the list is not a negative play experience.

Worth restating - people "feel" things at 10%, but unsure 10% is really a lot.

Also, it depends if people like the falcon, or a specific list (like, non-handbrake han falcons, etc).

12 minutes ago, Tlfj200 said:

Worth restating - people "feel" things at 10%, but unsure 10% is really a lot.

Also, it depends if people like the falcon, or a specific list (like, non-handbrake han falcons, etc).

What if I like flying handbrake Han but "feel " like he is fine because I prefer to fly him into corners, never use the dishonorable handbrake, and also refuse to dial in 4 straights and use the boost action?

Also worth saying that not all lists with a Falcon in also contain Han.

Even I (with my lack of skill), managed to win some dice flying a Falcon - piloted by Lando. (Had Wedge and Dutch too.)

Gosh. Can't believe this thread is still kicking....and yet I can.

Han should go up 2-10 points.

FFG should de-legalize the interaction with Kanan and IDs.

If that doesn't work... Then we might need to pull out the knife and retractors.

Ran into a Jack Mooney-style fat Han/Jake list at my last game of the Denver System Open. I was running Maul w/Hate, Dooku w/Hate and title, and Grievous w/Outmaneuver and title.

Tore through Jake in two round of shooting with Dooku and Grievous in the first few rounds for the lost of one Dooku shield. Then, it took about ten rounds to finally put down Han, even with terrible dice on my opponent's part. He managed to half point both Dooku and Grievous, but I came out on top with a win.

After experiencing that list, I have a couple of thoughts. It was deadly, Han's "new" roll ability combined with the variety of maneuvers available with Kanan/Inertial Dampers/Engine Upgrade was harsh to fly against. Add in the R2-D2/Han roll where he must have recharged 5 shields for only 2 revealed crits (Stunned Pilot and luckily Direct Hit) and you have not only a very deadly ship but one that tanks a ton of damage as well. I didn't have too many issues with the maneuverability due to getting decent placement with my own ships (had at least 1-2 arcs in places that he could possibly be) but I can see the issues with the build.

As far as a solution goes, I don't know. Removing Illicits from the Falcon might work, less fluffy but it takes out one component that makes this build truly great. Increased points cost on any of the upgrades will be difficult to justify, as they are all used in other builds not nearly as nasty as this one. It will be interesting to see how this plays out.

2 minutes ago, Ikka said:

Add in the R2-D2/Han roll where he must have recharged 5 shields for only 2 revealed crits

For what it's worth, Han has only a 14% chance of R2 exposing a card. Having it happen twice on five rolls is extremely poor variance for the Han player...

20 minutes ago, svelok said:

For what it's worth, Han has only a 14% chance of R2 exposing a card. Having it happen twice on five rolls is extremely poor variance for the Han player...

True. My opponent had very, very bad dice rolls throughout the game even with Han/target lock shenanigans (which is pretty obvious as I had three 1-2 Agi ships that survived the freight train of Han's 3/4 dice attacks). I can only imagine what that list is like with even average dice rolls.