18 hours ago, svelok said:

I don't really mourn the loss of combo-wing, though.

I may have phrased things awkwardly, but I don't really want 1e combo wing. Combination and it's contraction can just be such handy words. There's combo-wing, and there's also just a few cards which go at least OK together at a reasonable power level. Just, like, something almost good enough. The style of a 1e bumpmaster scaled down to 2e balance levels, but not nerfed into oblivion.

17 hours ago, millertime059 said:

Can I say how obnoxious the ‘dial is terrible’ charges are? It’s got 6 blues, and white left hard turns.

Is the asymmetry challenging? Sure. But saying a ship with 6 blues, multiple turn around maneuvers, hard 1 turns is terrible? A Torrent would kill for that dial.

Torrent dial is fine. All the 2s and all the straights are white/blue, with 3 reverse options. There aren't a lot of white options for hard turns, and you can't bank fast, but the secret to the Torrent is that it has all the dial that it needs in it's role of the lumbering tank of the filler/swarm price bracket. In fact, the limitations of the dial make it, IMHO, the most interesting ship in the bracket. TIEs and Z-95s are boring. This is the first somewhat spicy filler/swarmer.

17 hours ago, It’s One Of Ours said:

But beyond that, I’m not sure what else to do without a v1 style “card fix”.

At very least, Talent for the Scout gives it a niche that the YT-1300 doesn't have.

On 4/15/2019 at 8:55 PM, SnooSnarry said:

I think it should have its pilots reprinted in an upgrade pack and just reprint the pilot cards to make the ship actually playable. It's just bad all around right now. It's hindered by a terrible dial, terrible action bar, terrible ship restrictions like no bow tie turret and even the title only makes it 3 out the front. If they go and change the action bar and things like the single arc turret and how it interacts with the title, you could probably work around the dial.

Its not the only ship I feel could go this way to getting help from this use of packs. Grand Inquisitor for example would be way more playable with 3 force, Vader with purple evade is also an idea thats been put out there before that could also come out. They did say when 2.0 was revealed that the reason we have the little subtitles on our pilots was so they could reprint them too have different iterations out of the same pilot, so heres hoping they follow through on that.

This is why we can have three different Anakin pilots, for example, in the Republic. They've already followed through on this.

On 4/16/2019 at 12:32 PM, svelok said:

Sensor and gunner slot gives generics passive sensors and Dengar FCS + Agile Gunner?

Are there any other gunners really worth taking? The generics don't want to pay for hot-shot...

I think this would be a really good fix, without any card errata - As it stands now, with the title, you get a three-dice front-arc attack, lose a crew slot, and gain an astromech. If it were also to get a Gunner slot, I can see this configuration:

Dengar + Punishing One + R3 Astromech for two target locks + Agile Gunner + Fire Control System + ProTorps. Now, all of a sudden, you get an I6 ship that can hold two locks, get a reroll on any of two locked ships without spending the lock (or spend the lock on a ProTorps attack), and an End-Phase free rotate action. I don't know about the Passive Sensors, since we only have slightly questionable intel on that, but with currently-available cards, this becomes a solid support option, in my opinion.

From design point the 'fix' should not be tied to the Punishing One title. The title could certainly be adjusted as a way to increase ship role diversity (upgrade slot swapping/attribute changes)

I feel standard ship ought to gain a gunner slot, perhaps P1 title adds Sensor slot, drop price of generic to 41, and drop cost of all other ships by 4is points too.

That's seems like a reasonable starting point.

1 hour ago, feltipern1 said:

Add Outmaneuver, and you can reduce defense dice as long as you're out of the defender's arc, which works with a single-direction turret.

Sadly it doesn't. Outmaneuver only works with attacks that have the V symbol. Jumpmaster doesn't have a V attack it has a turret primary attack that can go out the front arc. They are two very different things. It would however work with the Protorps you suggest but now you have 18 point Protorps on a large base that has a single really terrible reposition option.

1 hour ago, Skitch_ said:

Sadly it doesn't. Outmaneuver only works with attacks that have the V symbol.

1.0 Brain kicked in slightly there.

5 hours ago, theBitterFig said:

orrent dial is fine. All the 2s and all the straights are white/blue, with 3 reverse options. There aren't a lot of white options for hard  turns, and you can't bank fast, but the secret to the Torrent is that it has all the dial that it needs in it's role of the lumbering tank of the filler/swarm price bracket. In fact, the limitations of the dial make it, IMHO, the most interesting ship in the bracket. TIEs and Z-95s are boring. This is the first somewhat spicy filler/swarmer. 

Sure, I fly the Torrent plenty, but it can be hard to keep it with, well, any other ship. The Arc is so much better at maneuvering. I’ve found that I tend to use a wheel formation, with the Torrent as the interior pivot. It works, until I need to go the other way 😁

And my god does the damaged engine crit hurt. Making all turns red makes moving this thing in anything approaching formation a nightmare.

1.0 contracted scout cost 25pts. it had crew an EPT slot, two torp slots, astromech slot and illicit slot.

2.0 version costs 46pts currently. it has one crew slot, one torp slot and illicit slot.

thats quite a drop off on its own but adding the dial nerf its mostly unplayable.

imo contracted scout will drop 3pts to 43pts. this alone isnt going to help the ship see play again tho.

in 1.0 i used to play feedback arrays on the scouts. 2.0 feedback array isnt nearly as good here. dont think ne1 is playing it anywhere. as mentioned previously scum illicits need help.

the ships in a bad spot, i dont think ffg would create a ship specific title for jumpmasters but thats what id do... give it a title that nerfs the illicit slot and gives it blue 1-2 turns on its movement dial. cost this title at about 4-5pts. job done. by making the fix a title it means u either take punishing one title or the new title. seems fair.

40 minutes ago, millertime059 said:

Sure, I fly the Torrent plenty, but it can be hard to keep it with, well, any other ship. The Arc is so much better at maneuvering. I’ve found that I tend to use a wheel formation, with the Torrent as the interior pivot. It works, until I need to go the other way 😁

And my god does the damaged engine crit hurt. Making all turns red makes moving this thing in anything approaching formation a nightmare.

Fair. And I'd certainly call it the least maneuverable Republic ship.

But it's not like TIE Fighters or Z-95s enjoy the Damaged Engine Crit. They just die so much sooner after getting a single crit.

Would ffg contemplate the option of issueing new cards and a dial for it and make the expansion pack stuff obselete?

not ideal i know but...

Hey curious idea since we can only change points and slots.

-Remove torpedo slot(its a bad slot on the ship currently)

-Add gunner slot and cannon slot

It would be the first turret ship with a cannon slot(as far as I know)

Ion cannon gives a 3 die primary with limited damage potential and some CC potential, most importantly it doesn’t cost as much as a proton, have limited uses, nor does it need a lock.

I’m pretty sure the autoblaster cannon was revealed with the resistance transport, so we will have another damage cannon soon.

HLC would be hilariously hard to line up unless the target is large.(maybe slow mediums)

Overall it avoids double tap vtg cancer, but gives an additional firing arc.

It also gives an alternative to strapping Punishing One to every jumpmaster(I hate required upgrades, options make the game more fun)

Alternative to the cannon a missile slot could be ok, but I don’t like the idea of a weapon that requires a lock on a ship that spends half it’s time stressed.

Yah, cannon would do a HECK of a lot for it.

Cannon would be a lot of fun. 3 dice from Ion is good. 4 dice from HLC is probably less good but pretty spicy on a ship with a large base barrel roll and a turret backup.

//

I wouldn't suggest it, since I don't like suggesting true-errata most of the time, but it would have been cool if the Jumpmaster, like the TIE/sf, treated it's front-arc Torpedo attacks as Turret attacks. That'd really be a way to leverage the Lock + Rotate.

The fact that this thing can action + rotate is really potent, something most other turrets can't do. YTs and Decis can't do anything like that. But with a 2 dice primary (and with Dengar essentially required to be front-arc at all times), it just doesn't really matter. If it were a 3-dice gun in any arc, it'd feel like a reason for the ship to exist at some (higher!) price point. Action+Rotate on something other than a pea-shooter--even at a cost of stress--even with a predictable dial--is the kind of thing which would be interesting and unique, whether or not it was good.

Wild idea, they release new dials with the new Jumpmasters.

I think they should keep the dial bad but make the it a useful jousting ship the thing the JM5Ks have that few torp carriers do is the health on top of 2 agility!

The best way to along the ship usable will be for it to easily get outplayed by aces who can force it to go right BUT against squads that don't play it right it crushes.

I don't want scout spam but maybe a Dengar/Manaroo/Fenn list would be nice to see competitive. Dengar and Manaroo joust then Fenn for the endgame.

On 4/18/2019 at 12:35 AM, theBitterFig said:

I wouldn't suggest it, since I don't like suggesting true-errata most of the time, but it would have been cool if the Jumpmaster, like the TIE/sf, treated it's front-arc Torpedo attacks as Turret attacks. That'd really be a way to leverage the Lock + Rotate.

I think that would be amazing! Unfortunately not many people use that ability on the ties because missles are not that powerful but get the ability with torps and that would be increble!

1 hour ago, Captain Lackwit said:

Wild idea, they release new dials with the new Jumpmasters.

But then you'd still have to buy a second, third, or even (in many people's cases, including my own) a fourth Jumpmaster to cover the dials on your existing one, two, or three ships from 1e. And honestly, knowing how FFG treated the conversion kit dial quantities, I'd put money on them only giving one extra.

I'd be stunned if they changed the dial. Especially since it's visible unchanged in the w5 announcement.

The only thing we can really assert from the announcement is that it will get a gunner slot because Dengar gunner is in the spread, and that JUST maybe the title might change as it's face down in the spread.

We need a new source for Agile Gunner too, since it will be welded to that frame. Maybe they'll be generous and chuck in a sensor slot, even if there's no sensor cards in the box. I still think that combo not only makes sense thematically, but also gives the frame the unique combo it needs to stand out in Scum right now.

13 minutes ago, NakedDex said:

We need a new source for Agile Gunner too, since it will be welded to that frame. Maybe they'll be generous and chuck in a sensor slot, even if there's no sensor cards in the box. I still think that combo not only makes sense thematically, but also gives the frame the unique combo it needs to stand out in Scum right now.

How many points for a Passive Sensors + Proton Torps contracted scout to be good? 60 (2 pt pas sens)? 55 (41 pt base)?

Make it unique and you've got a sale.

The game does not need the return of triple deadeye scouts.

1 hour ago, svelok said:

How many points for a Passive Sensors + Proton Torps contracted scout to be good? 60 (2 pt pas sens)? 55 (41 pt base)?

Sorry, I meant to add that the torp slot would be replaced by the sensor slot. Nobody wants the U-boat return, and every action efficiency buff that isn't based on primary weapons is going to risk that while the torp slot is there.

23 minutes ago, thespaceinvader said:

Make it unique and you've got a sale.

The game does not need the return of triple deadeye scouts.

Triple Deadeye Scouts had:

• white left segnor's loop (now red)
• right segnors loop (now gone)
• green left hards (now white)
• white right hards (now red)
• guidance chips (gone)
• 360 turret primary (now a 90 degree turret)

3x Passive Sensors Torps in 2.0 wouldn't have half those things.

If they have to turn right, they're stressed, and don't get to fire their torps. If they s-loop, no torps. If they need to dump stress, they have to bank, not hard turn. If you slip their front arc, or range control to range 1, they have only a 2 dice single turret arc.

Maybe it would still be good? Maybe even still too good? You can have 3x E-Wings show up to round one with double modded torps, and nobody really runs that, this would have half the mods and much worse maneuverability but 9 more hull. Maybe that's enough to push it over the line? I dunno.

But just kicking it down reflexively because it resembles the 1.0 list on its face is the sort of thing that put the 2.0 Jumpmaster in its position in the first place.

All you'd need to do is bide your time for a turn and you're firing three double modded Protons. Sure, it can't turn as readily now, but anyone with an ounce of experience with jumpys will tell you it's not hard to hug the board edge and turn in when ready. With 9HP each and some nice slow maneuvers, its also not hard to wait that turn.

Right now, the only thing stopping that from happening is target lock ease.

20 minutes ago, NakedDex said:

All you'd need to do is bide your time for a turn and you're firing three double modded Protons.

Sure? That's true for everything.

Right now, you can run:

• triple proton E-Wings (these get to be double modded for free)
• triple proton Infiltrators (if one drops down to ion torps, you can have DRK-1 and be double modded)
• triple proton ARCs (can easily fit Oddball and Sync Console for r1)
• quadruple proton Punishers (3x of these can have passive sensors soon, and/or one can just be Redline and it doesn't matter)
• quadruple proton Gunboats (with plenty of of room for passive sensors and maybe advanced slam too)
• ___x proton N1s and Hyenas (with passive sensors)

Yup, they're all options. They all have drawbacks (including the Jumps), but the big difference is the room for crew on Jumps, and the ability to block with three low initiative, large base ships. The major reason you're not seeing more of those is honestly because most on that list aren't out, rely on a card that isn't out (PS), or simply aren't hyperspace. I'm just waiting for triple ordnance ARCs to become a thing, honestly. I don't think we'll see triple Infiltrator ordanace lists though, simply because there's better ways to build that already.