I'm talking basically about where you stuff all your points into two ships, sometimes, without them even being large ships. Then run around the board trying to get a better position. What constitutes a better position? Do you note the difficulty of flying of your opponents list?

Do you keep serious tab on score all game for tourney points?

When do you decide to engage? How do you choose to disengage and regen? I never seem to get value out of disengage, and been pretty infuriated when my opponents do with no drawback and roll nice evades while I'm chasing them.

How do you know the chase will benefit you at all?

Examples (some 3 ship also):

Anakin and Obiwan only with BrEvas, R2, 7B, Shield Upgrades

Boba and Guri only

UWing, Wedge, Luke R2 - with Proton Torps. - where Luke runs around the board as bait.

3 aces like - Vader Soontir Maarek. - This list has nothing that really absorbs damage (cept marek)

--

Let's compare vs more traditional joust or firepower lists:

Old pre-nerf Boba Palob 2 Quads

4 Arcs

Honestly... it depends on the list, and the situation.

But in general, you have to use moving last and your manouevrability options to keep the rocks in places where they inhibit your opponent, but not you, until you're ready to engage on terms that favour you and disfavour them.

For instance, on Saturday, I was flying Anakin against an opposing Rexler, and I ran around for probably 5 turns, getting the rocks in between us, until he left himself in a position where he coudln't 4k because a rock was in the way, then dove for range 1 arc dodge and shot, then stayed in the knife fight and kept the pressure on until I got half points, before bugging out again. It's a complicated strategic and tactical problem that's tough to boil down to a single pithy forum post.

I flew Kylo/Blackout with torps a little bit. At the beginning, I note which opponent ships are worth the most, and make a rough game state in my head like "if I lose blackout, they need to lose howl, Iden, and one other" or something like that. Then, I could easily fly in circles until you get to a point where if you turn in, part of their fleet can't. Rock placement is huge here. Also, giving every one of your moves an out is pretty key. Most of the time if I thought of doing a hard turn in, I would dial in a bank just to cover my **** in case they also went full in on that ship. Most of the aces had double reposition so I could still effectively arcdodge. The best position for me is them facing one side of a rock, or directly at a rock. They would either have to move across a rock to get one of my ships in arc, or fly past the rock. Its really bait and switch until you can line up something like this. Of note: I haven't played a 2-ship list since the new gas clouds have come out.

I always had the most problems with seismic charge lists, I'm honestly surprised at 3 points that they aren't being taken more to combat these flying shenanigan lists.

I started out with AdvS Rex and Ryad. Can't say how to do it because I've honestly no idea how I did it. I just made it up as I went along....

But! Now I do understand more about the game, and have plans and stuff, I think it's easier with 2 ships than it is 3. You have so many more places to go where you won't be in harms way. Leaving those options open, or having ships with a natural ton of options, is key.

With the 3 ship lists I like now, I still often end up leaving one hanging, losing it and having to make do with 2. If most of my points are in those 2 left, it's almost a relief....

I've used Rex and Echo quite a bit, always with a 3rd, vaguely sacrificial ship. Sometimes, I am very tempted to just put those points into them, they do almost all of the work anyway.

Hey here comes Rex... yeah there he goes again. No, Echo is not going away. Take your best guess where he'll be next, while Rex turns around and fakes another pass. He'll attack when he's good and ready.

Problem is earning enough points to actually make it an interesting game. I fully admire anyone who can consistently score 200 with 2 small ships.

Its much more entertaining for me with a 3rd ship doing something totally different. Even if it is just exploding spectacularly.

37 minutes ago, Jyico said:

I flew Kylo/Blackout with torps a little bit. At the beginning, I note which opponent ships are worth the most, and make a rough game state in my head like "if I lose blackout, they need to lose howl, Iden, and one other" or something like that. Then, I could easily fly in circles until you get to a point where if you turn in, part of their fleet can't.

Can y'all talk more about this part right now.

How do you so easily fly in circles? How do you avoid the opponent using that same time to get into a better position than you can??

5 minutes ago, Cuz05 said:

I started out with AdvS Rex and Ryad. Can't say how to do it because I've honestly no idea how I did it. I just made it up as I went along....

But! Now I do understand more about the game, and have plans and stuff, I think it's easier with 2 ships than it is 3. You have so many more places to go where you won't be in harms way. Leaving those options open, or having ships with a natural ton of options, is key.

With the 3 ship lists I like now, I still often end up leaving one hanging, losing it and having to make do with 2. If most of my points are in those 2 left, it's almost a relief....

I've used Rex and Echo quite a bit, always with a 3rd, vaguely sacrificial ship. Sometimes, I am very tempted to just put those points into them, they do almost all of the work anyway.

Hey here comes Rex... yeah there he goes again. No, Echo is not going away. Take your best guess where he'll be next, while Rex turns around and fakes another pass. He'll attack when he's good and ready.

Problem is earning enough points to actually make it an interesting game. I fully admire anyone who can consistently score 200 with 2 small ships.

Its much more entertaining for me with a 3rd ship doing something totally different. Even if it is just exploding spectacularly.

Yeah this too. How on earth do these GD people actually score enough in tournaments? Especially spending half the game intentionally facing the other way.

4 minutes ago, Blail Blerg said:

Yeah this too. How on earth do these GD people actually score enough in tournaments? Especially spending half the game intentionally facing the other way.

This is it exactly. I moved on from it because I just couldn't do enough damage. It would become boring for both of us if I didnt take a risk and the game wouldn't progress. I'd like to try it again and be able to make it more dynamic.

1 hour ago, Blail Blerg said:

Can y'all talk more abo  ut this part right now.

How do you so easily fly in circles? How do  you avoid the opponent using that same t  ime to get into a bett  er position t  h  an you can??

So for setup, I usually space out Blackout and Kylo on either end of my deployment, range 1 in from the sides. Most times opponents would put their ships in a group or put one off to the side as bait (assuming 3+ ships). Assume asteroids look like anything they want. I also use non-standard deployments (22.5 degrees) most of the time. If you are slightly angled in from either corner, you have to stall the engagement (not stall time, just plan maneuvers that give you maximum options). I would either 2-straight or 2-bank in to see which direction the opponent is committing to, giving myself boost and barrel roll (and blue maneuver next turn) options to either go wide or turn and get closer to my deployment edge. Each turn I would try and see which way they are going, and dial in something the turn after to give me more options of either flank or run. All depends on which way the opponent commits, and what rocks are between you and them. Bait and switch keeping your options wide, but knowing a 5-straight boost or 3 turn roll will get you pretty close to each other for concentrating fire if need.

If the opponent had something like Lulo as the "bait" and the other two x-wings in the opposite corner I would 5-straight the one staring Lulo down and 3-bank in the other one, towards Lulo. If you get a shot on Lulo Turn 1 or 2, great, if not, no biggie because the opponent is likely using Lulo as bait and going to blow right by you flipping the arc to the rear. So then you have to look at the positions of the x-wings. If they bought it, at some point there's a rock that's on a 2/3 turn or 2/3 bank, forcing your opponent into a tough decision of going over the rock or engaging the one you should be running with. Free shot from the other. Then assess the situation and set it up again.

With Silencers its a lot easier because they have the 5-straight. You can get yourself out of trouble fairly easily because you have that and a 1 hard turn. Probably similar to how the falcon in question has a 0-stop or 3bank+boost. Wide variety of places you can possibly be. I imagine the same is with advanced sensors guri and Boba. Both PS5 with a ton of maneuverability options to run. Boba gets you in a rear arc and boosts or focuses after adjusting his bank if need, Guri uses advanced sensors to knife fight and force blocks or go in any of 7 different directions with a boost or barrel roll before maneuver.

I should have clarified "running in circles" with silencers means "maximum circle speed circling around the board"

Edit: I don't fly 2-ship lists often. This is likely not the "correct" way to do it, just what I've tried and observed. I can imagine the Falcon and Jake follow some of the same thoughts, but maybe not (I didn't see any streams last weekend)

1 hour ago, Cuz05 said:

This is it exactly. I moved on from it bec   ause I just couldn't do enough  d  amage. It would  become b  oring for both of u  s if I didnt take a risk and the  game wouldn't pro  gress. I'd like to try it again and be able to make it more dynamic. 

With only a couple ships you're going to get more moves on the board quicker. Otherwise you're just playing the x-1 game, just win.

Do people recommend these lists for scoring well in tournaments or reducing thinking? Or are you better off being a normal person with a decent normal list with stuff?

This is a big overarching question of probability and consistency. Does the players general skill level (represented as x) cause a shift in the outcome variable ? (y=yes or no)

I'm practicing for a tournament next month and I will be flying two Tie Defenders. Partly because I think it will be easier on my brain. I like to play aggressive but I think two ship lists might be rather unforgiving. I look forward to finding out. This will only be my second tournament so I don't expect to do all that well.

Just have to find the right combination of the following X-Wing Tactics:

&

My problem is that it takes one single bad turn, a bad case of dice variance, to flip a game. You make one mistake? Game over. You make a good play but their range 3 obstructed potshot rolls natties and you blank out? It happens.

With the prevalence of 5 ship lists, it can be really hard to avoid all arcs indefinitely. Plus it’s not how I play, not because I can’t but because it isn’t as fun for my opponent to fly for 75 minutes where we roll dice twice. It isn’t in the spirit of the game, to me, to play that style.

Which is why when I’ve flown those two super ships I do tend to get in and engage. Oh arc dodge and drag them through rocks to disrupt formation, yes, but not play the ‘I get half points on one ship then play ring around the Rosie until time’. Which means that I get more shots, but also take a few. Which opens up that variance.

But I can’t in good conscience in normal play sit down and basically refuse to engage all game.

I flown Super Kylo + Blackout at this weekend UK SOS Hyperspace and managed to squeeze 5:0.

What I've learned is:

- it's exhausting

- you need to be super patient

- as long as one ace is alive you can always turn the outcome of the match

- you need to be lucky

- every game ends on time

- gas clouds are excellent for aces, and super excellent for Blackout

I had matchups when I started with 2 rounds of shooting against swarm doing nothing loosing half points on both ships, yet managed to win 136:132, or against rebel beef when I won with the last roll halving Y-wing for 149:132. I can easily imagine I am 3:2 instead of 5:0 after the tournament.

Most important: you need to be resistant to the negative experience from bad dice variance. You gonna loose at some point because of dice, it's inevitable.

2 hours ago, Oldpara said:

- it's exhausting

I'd forgotten about this part. That was another reason I put them aside

Super Kylo + Adv LW Quickdraw:

• Be cagey with both aces and let your opponent make the first mistake
• Quickdraw kills the biggest threat to Kylo (typically an enemy I6) whilst he teleports to shank a few things
• Plan--with the same maneuver on your dial--a flanking pattern to attack at Range 1, but a contingency plan should the opponent cover that lane. That contingency plan could be disengaging, engaging from a different route, lessening the brunt of the attack, or YOLO'ing into R1 with both aces in an attempt to alpha
• Use your general unpredictability to force the moves the opponent. So long as AS QD is chilling within viewing range of the likes of Fenn or Soontir, they will be extra cagey and you can take advantage of it. If they turn aggressive, again, contingency plans.
• As much as Kylo loves that blank to evade on gas clouds, bring rocks. Kylo or QD parking somewhat near a rock and forcing the opponent to guess which course was planned when really both are available works wonders. And Quickdraw (when sure no shot is coming) can AS focus, charge over the rock, roll for damage, and get 2 attaks at R1 of something like an I5. Against an Old Terry before his ability kicks in, this is dank.

Taking risks here and there. I really love getting in a position where my pilots get shot and take damage if they can deal twice as much damage back or even erase an enemy ship.

And one more thing: Practicing those lists with " Fly Casual " is helpful.

Tried Anakin and Obiwan ONLY for giggles.

Played most of the game forgetting that Delta 7B erases one die. And you can't regain forever.

Ugh. Dumb. I have no idea how anyone has the stomach for this.

Granted they are punchy, but still...

this is my Run away list good luck working out where its going I dont even know. one thing is for sure it can run away in any direction

Guri (63)
Daredevil (3)
Advanced Sensors (10)
Proton Torpedoes (12)
Afterburners (6)
Virago (10)
Shield Upgrade (8)

Ship total: 112 Half Points: 56 Threshold: 4

Dalan Oberos (StarViper) (54)
Daredevil (3)
Advanced Sensors (10)
Proton Torpedoes (12)
Afterburners (6)

Ship total: 85 Half Points: 43 Threshold: 3


Total: 197

View in Yet Another Squad Builder 2.0: https://raithos.github.io/?f=Scum and Villainy&d=v6!s=200!147:117,111,136,105,163:U.165;149:117,111,136,105,:&sn=Unnamed Squadron&obs=

1 hour ago, X Wing Nut said:

this is my Run away list good luck working out where its going I dont even know. one thing is for sure it can run away in any direction

I love this. It's lunacy.