Hi!

So as its my first Hyperspace tournament on Saturday I thought I'd do my usual pre-tournament thing and through a post up here to make sure I'm not being.....silly...we'll go with silly

so, at the moment I've got myself down to 3 options - Scum, Resistance, and Separatist.

option 1: Scum

StarViper -class Attack Platform - •Dalan Oberos - 70
•Dalan Oberos - Elite Bounty Hunter (54)
Advanced Sensors (10)
Afterburners (6)

StarViper -class Attack Platform - •Guri - 71
•Guri - Prince Xizor’s Bodyguard (63)
Outmaneuver (6)
Fire-Control System (2)

Fang Fighter - •Old Teroch - 59
•Old Teroch - Mandalorian Mentor (56)
Fearless (3)

Total: 200/200

View in the X-Wing Squad Builder

option 2: Resistance

T-70 X-wing - •Ello Asty - 58
•Ello Asty - Born to Ill (56)
R4 Astromech (2)
Integrated S-foils (Closed) (0)

T-70 X-wing - •Nien Nunb - 63
•Nien Nunb - Sarcastic Survivor (55)
R4 Astromech (2)
Afterburners (6)
Integrated S-foils (Closed) (0)

RZ-2 A-wing - •L’ulo L’ampar - 41
•L’ulo L’ampar - Luminous Mentor (38)
Heroic (1)
Trick Shot (2)

RZ-2 A-wing - •Tallissan Lintra - 38
•Tallissan Lintra - Deadly Approach (35)
Heroic (1)
Trick Shot (2)

Total: 200/200

View in the X-Wing Squad Builder

option 3: Separatist

Vulture -class Droid Fighter - Separatist Drone - 22
Separatist Drone - (22)

Vulture -class Droid Fighter - Separatist Drone - 22
Separatist Drone - (22)

Sith Infiltrator - •Darth Maul - 89
•Darth Maul - Sith Assassin (65)
•Count Dooku (9)
Perceptive Copilot (8)
• Scimitar (4)
Hate (3)

Belbullab-22 Starfighter - •Wat Tambor - 43
•Wat Tambor - Techno Union Foreman (43)

Vulture -class Droid Fighter - Separatist Drone - 22
Separatist Drone - (22)

Total: 198/200

View in the X-Wing Squad Builder

so, any thoughts on any of the above - the lists are in order of my experience of flying the ships (I've been a StarViper fan since they were released, even before the 1.0 fix), but I'm really tempted to try my new toys

I've been trying out Resistance 5s in a slightly different configuration but I've been having trouble with losing too much MOV. It sounds like you have a lot of love for the viper and you know what they say, fly what you love!

so, having been reminded that I lile StarVipers far too much, this happened;

option 1a

StarViper -class Attack Platform - •Prince Xizor - 57
•Prince Xizor - Black Sun Kingpin (54)
Fearless (3)

StarViper -class Attack Platform - •Guri - 75
•Guri - Prince Xizor’s Bodyguard (63)
Outmaneuver (6)
Afterburners (6)

StarViper -class Attack Platform - •Dalan Oberos - 67
•Dalan Oberos - Elite Bounty Hunter (54)
Fearless (3)
Advanced Sensors (10)

Total: 199/200

View in the X-Wing Squad Builder

I strongly advocate for the Resistance list, but I also strongly advocate for Pattern Analyzer above literally anything else on Nein - it should 100% be stapled to him with all his extra actions. Meanwhile, Ello really shouldn't be worried about stress, so he does not need an R4

If you are going to win your best shot would be the resitance with what Greebwahn said, adding PA.

But if your wanting a fun time that starviper list looks class!

18 hours ago, Surak said:

so, having been reminded that I lile StarVipers far too much, this happened;

option 1a

StarViper -class Attack Platform - •Prince Xizor - 57
•Prince Xizor - Black Sun Kingpin (54)
Fearless (3)

StarViper -class Attack Platform - •Guri - 75
•Guri - Prince Xizor’s Bodyguard (63)
Outmaneuver (6)
Afterburners (6)

StarViper -class Attack Platform - •Dalan Oberos - 67
•Dalan Oberos - Elite Bounty Hunter (54)
Fearless (3)
Advanced Sensors (10)

Total: 199/200

View in the X-Wing Squad Builder

Xizor with Fearless is a great idea. Guri I would recomend AS on him aswell as Dalan because you can get a focus at R1 anyway so a premove BR or boost is great (also just TLs then bumping is great).

So if I was you I would run:

Xizor - Fearless
Guri - Advanced Sensors
Dalan - Advanced Sensors, Fearless

This also gives you a bigger bid which is nice.

At the end of the day however, you would be running 3 Starvipers so you obviously are wanting more fun insted of a better chance of winning so play what list you think looks more fun!

Yeh, 3x Vipers isn't exactly competitive - but it's definitely fun to fly.

I do have a 4x Black Sun Assassin with Predator list that is exactly 200pts, but I'm not sure that is a better mix of competitive/fun

Flying Resistance 5s won't give you an auto-win, it will still be about flying. Sometimes when you put a lesser flown archetype on the mat you have a better chance because players are unfamiliar with how to counter it. I find that when I read through these list threads, innovation gets squashed under suggestions of tried and true lists. Don't get me wrong, they are good for a reason and all the advice is good but I like the trial and error aspect of XWing. Look at some of the lists that are winning events (UK SOS for example) that are not exactly deemed competitive.

5 minutes ago, LeadBelly said:

Flying Resistance 5s won't give you an auto-win, it will still be about flying. Sometimes when you put a lesser flown archetype on the mat you have a better chance because players are unfamiliar with how to counter it. I find that when I read through these list threads, innovation gets squashed under suggestions of tried and true lists. Don't get me wrong, they are good for a reason and all the advice is good but I like the trial and error aspect of XWing. Look at some of the lists that are winning events (UK SOS for example) that are not exactly deemed competitive.

Oh trust me, I don't think ANY list would be able to give me an auto-win

as for wierd lists, my go-to extended format list is a Double YV666 list that causes slot of confusion.

I like a balance of fun/wierd and actually dangerous most of the time - but this is my first Hyperspace so most of my normal toolkit is unavailable so I'm feeling a little adrift.

37 minutes ago, Surak said:

Oh trust me, I don't think ANY list would be able to give me an auto-win

as for wierd lists, my go-to extended format list is a Double YV666 list that causes slot of confusion.

I like a balance of fun/wierd and actually dangerous most of the time - but this is my first Hyperspace so most of my normal toolkit is unavailable so I'm feeling a little adrift.

Let us know what you go with and how you do!

5 minutes ago, LeadBelly said:

Let us know what you go with and how you do!

Will do, I'm going to do a little bit of testing at our Thursday night games club, so expect some sort of update Friday

1 hour ago, LeadBelly said:

Look at some of the lists that are winning events (UK SOS for example) that are not exactly deemed competitive.

How have you seen the lists for the UK SOS? It isn't on listfortress for me yet?

https://www.twitch.tv/firstearth

You can see the lists in the stream for the event. I also saw the winning list in a blog somewhere, sorry can't put my finger on it now. It was super fat Han and Jake.

Ok, so I've been doing a little more thinking on this.

I'm definitely flying Star Vipers, the question is how high one(s) and how many.

Obviously the first list I'm trying is the triple named pilot list above (1a) but I've come up with this as a backup

Z-95-AF4 Headhunter - •N’dru Suhlak - 42
•N’dru Suhlak - Hunt Saboteur (31)
•Lone Wolf (5)
Cluster Missiles (5)
Munitions Failsafe (1)

StarViper -class Attack Platform - •Guri - 85
•Guri - Prince Xizor’s Bodyguard (63)
Outmaneuver (6)
Advanced Sensors (10)
Afterburners (6)

StarViper -class Attack Platform - •Dalan Oberos - 73
•Dalan Oberos - Elite Bounty Hunter (54)
Fearless (3)
Advanced Sensors (10)
Afterburners (6)

Total: 200/200

View in the X-Wing Squad Builder

With my original option 1 list as a final option if I don't like how either of those fly before the tournament.

Any thoughts?

I prefer the Resistance list because I have had success with similar lists in tournaments. You may want to take off R4 and add Patterns Analyzer because it allows you to do an action before getting a Stress token if you do a red maneuver. Ello may not need R4 either since he can do Tallon Rolls as white maneuvers even if he is stressed. I gave Ello Advanced Optics to get extra hits when attacking. L'ulo and Talli both had Heroic and Trick Shot. Make sure to use those turrets and try to attack the rear of your opponent's ships.

Ok, so I tested this list twice last night Vs a Kath Scarlet + z95 list.

On 4/15/2019 at 4:28 PM, Surak said:

option  1a

StarViper -class Attack Platform - •Prince Xizor - 57
•Prince Xizor - Black Sun Kingpin (54)
Fearless (3)

StarViper -class Attack  Platform - •Guri - 75
•Guri - Prince Xizor’s Bodyguard (63)
Outmaneuver (6) 
Afterburners (6)

StarViper -class Attack Platform - •Dalan Oberos - 67
•Dalan Oberos - Elite Bounty  Hunter (54)
Fearless (3)
Advanced Sensors (10) 

Total: 199/200  

The first game was a blood-bath, coming down to Guru Vs Kath. It should have been Kath Vs Guru AND Dalan, but I mis-judged a barrel-roll into S-loop and flew him off the table by about half a base. This would have made a huge difference as Kath survived on one hull to win the game.

Game 2 was a 45min timed match as we were running out of time before the store closed. I messed up my approach this time, and my opponent (who was also testing his list) had swapped Lone Wolf on Kath for Outmanoeuvre so she was right in the centre of the formation this time instead of trying to stay away. This led to a turn 3 train-wreck in the centre of the board that cost me Xisor in trade for 2 Z-95's. At this point the clock was running down so I tried to get Guri clear (she was almost at half points) whilst Dalan tried to finish of another Z or push Kath to half. Didn't quite go to plan, Kath fired first as it turned out Guri was just in range 3 (and looking the wrong way) and took the 1 damage needed to push her to half damage. Dalan then failed to kill a third Z-95 (got half on it though) giving my opponent a marginal victory.

I'm really happy with both Guri and Dalan's builds, afterburner was very useful to keep Guri at range 1 and Fearless and Adv Sensor on Dalan was just fun. Xisor though, he was a bit of a letdown. He was first to die in both games, and didn't really do a lot of damage either time, so I'm thinking of swapping him out for something else. I'm hopefully doing some more practice games this evening, so we will see how that goes.

I really like the first list with Old T, but you can also switch out Old T for an Adv. Sensor Black Crack Assassin StarViper if you're looking for triple Death-Butterflies.

As far as your first HS tourney goes, set reasonable expectations. Your list is fun to fly and can be deadly too, so going 3-1 or better isn't out of reach.

• Take your time to choose the right target priority. Get the points value of your opponent's ships to help you make the right choice.
• Avoiding getting shot is better than getting a shot but exposing yourself and losing points.
• Take a seat to get off your feet when you get a chance.
• Drink water: if your're not drinking, you're not thinking
• Double-check your dials. Double check your dials.
• Choose your battle-ground. You don't have to engage right away; get into the right position/make them come to you.
• When in doubt, ask a judge. When unclear about a rule/interaction/etc. get a judge. Don't take your opponent or another player's word for it, even if they're right--you had a doubt for a reason--let the judge clarify the situation.
• When a question about arc arises, DON'T TOUCH ANYTHING. You don't want to ruin the board state by trying to help.
• Be friendly. Shake hands. Cheer for good rolls or awesome maneuvers.
• Keep an eye on the clock!
• Wash your hands between matches if you can, otherwise, bring a small bottle of hand sanitizer, and DON"T TOUCH YOUR FACE. You can avoid getting "Con Crud" almost guaranteed by doing this.
• Double check your kit: Damage Deck, Templates & Range Ruler, Dice, Ships, bases, cards, etc. & 2 print outs of your list.
• Bathe, set your alarm & Get a good night's rest.
• Make 4 new friends: Learn your opponents' names and something about them: where they traveled from, how they got into the game, etc. Thank them for the game.
• Enjoy yourself. You're playing X-wing--it sure beats going to work!

Good luck!

10 minutes ago, Force Majeure said:

I really like the first list with Old T, but you can also switch out Old T for an Adv. Sensor Black Crack Assassin StarViper if you're looking for triple Death-Butterflies.

As far as your first HS tourney goes, set reasonable expectations. Your list is fun to fly and can be deadly too, so going 3-1 or better isn't out of reach.

• Take your time to choose the right target priority. Get the points value of your opponent's ships to help you make the right choice.
• Avoiding getting shot is better than getting a shot but exposing yourself and losing points.
• Take a seat to get off your feet when you get a chance.
• Drink water: if your're not drinking, you're not thinking
• Double-check your dials. Double check your dials.
• Choose your battle-ground. You don't have to engage right away; get into the right position/make them come to you.
• When in doubt, ask a judge. When unclear about a rule/interaction/etc. get a judge. Don't take your opponent or another player's word for it, even if they're right--you had a doubt for a reason--let the judge clarify the situation.
• When a question about arc arises, DON'T TOUCH ANYTHING. You don't want to ruin the board state by trying to help.
• Be friendly. Shake hands. Cheer for good rolls or awesome maneuvers.
• Keep an eye on the clock!
• Wash your hands between matches if you can, otherwise, bring a small bottle of hand sanitizer, and DON"T TOUCH YOUR FACE. You can avoid getting "Con Crud" almost guaranteed by doing this.
• Double check your kit: Damage Deck, Templates & Range Ruler, Dice, Ships, bases, cards, etc. & 2 print outs of your list.
• Bathe, set your alarm & Get a good night's rest.
• Make 4 new friends: Learn your opponents' names and something about them: where they traveled from, how they got into the game, etc. Thank them for the game.
• Enjoy yourself. You're playing X-wing--it sure beats going to work!

Good luck!

Good advice for anyone! I have a small Hyperspace tournament tomorrow and a Hyperspace trial in early May. Need to include the above advise in my battle plan.

26 minutes ago, Force Majeure said:

I really like the first list with Old T, but you can also switch out Old T for an Adv. Sensor Black Crack Assassin StarViper if you're looking for triple Death-Butterflies.

As far as your first HS tourney goes, set reasonable expectations. Your list is fun to fly and can be deadly too, so going 3-1 or better isn't out of reach.

• Take your time to choose the right target priority. Get the points value of your opponent's ships to help you make the right choice.
• Avoiding getting shot is better than getting a shot but exposing yourself and losing points.
• Take a seat to get off your feet when you get a chance.
• Drink water: if your're not drinking, you're not thinking
• Double-check your dials. Double check your dials.
• Choose your battle-ground. You don't have to engage right away; get into the right position/make them come to you.
• When in doubt, ask a judge. When unclear about a rule/interaction/etc. get a judge. Don't take your opponent or another player's word for it, even if they're right--you had a doubt for a reason--let the judge clarify the situation.
• When a question about arc arises, DON'T TOUCH ANYTHING. You don't want to ruin the board state by trying to help.
• Be friendly. Shake hands. Cheer for good rolls or awesome maneuvers.
• Keep an eye on the clock!
• Wash your hands between matches if you can, otherwise, bring a small bottle of hand sanitizer, and DON"T TOUCH YOUR FACE. You can avoid getting "Con Crud" almost guaranteed by doing this.
• Double check your kit: Damage Deck, Templates & Range Ruler, Dice, Ships, bases, cards, etc. & 2 print outs of your list.
• Bathe, set your alarm & Get a good night's rest.
• Make 4 new friends: Learn your opponents' names and something about them: where they traveled from, how they got into the game, etc. Thank them for the game.
• Enjoy yourself. You're playing X-wing--it sure beats going to work!

Good luck!

Some fantastic and well thought out advice there!

I played a few tournaments in 1.0 so I'm not a complete rookie, but they are points that are always worth repeating - thank you.

I did get two games in tonight, one against a complete rookie and one against a good friend of MANY years. I'm going to discount to game Vs the Rook as it was more of a casual affair, but against my old foe I took a slightly modified version of the Terok list (dropped FCS, moved afterburner to Guri) and got demolished by his triple Interceptor list of Fell, Phenir, and a Saber all with Predator, Hull+shield Upgrade, I didn't get any better effect from the Fang over Xisor so I'll probably go back to triple named butterfly's for the tournament just for the heck of it

thanks everyone for the advice, and if I get chance, I'll try and post some updates tomorrow during the breaks. Worst case, I'll post something Saturday evening once we are back (there are four of us traveling to this one, so the road trip should be fun anyway).

So lunchtime report time, two games down, two to go and I'm 0-2

My green dice are having a serious case of not turning up, so hopefully the lunch break will give them a chance to arrive!

first game I managed to get 50pts out of a 4x rebel list (Ten Numb, Brayan, Dutch, Cassian) and game 2 I got 95pts out of a Wedge/Han list. The list I'm flying is my triple Vipers, but swapping Fearless for Predator.

16 hours ago, Force Majeure said:

I really like the first list with Old T, but you can also switch out Old T for an Adv. Sensor Black Crack Assassin StarViper if you're looking for triple Death-Butterflies.

As far as your first HS tourney goes, set reasonable expectations. Your list is fun to fly and can be deadly too, so going 3-1 or better isn't out of reach.

• Take your time to choose the right target priority. Get the points value of your opponent's ships to help you make the right choice.
• Avoiding getting shot is better than getting a shot but exposing yourself and losing points.
• Take a seat to get off your feet when you get a chance.
• Drink water: if your're not drinking, you're not thinking
• Double-check your dials. Double check your dials.
• Choose your battle-ground. You don't have to engage right away; get into the right position/make them come to you.
• When in doubt, ask a judge. When unclear about a rule/interaction/etc. get a judge. Don't take your opponent or another player's word for it, even if they're right--you had a doubt for a reason--let the judge clarify the situation.
• When a ques  tion about arc arises, DON'T TOUCH ANYTHING. You don't want to ruin the board state by trying to help.
• Be friendly. Shake hands. Cheer for good rolls or awesome maneuvers.
• Keep an eye on the clock!
• Wash your hands between matches if you can, otherwise, bring a small bottle of hand sanitizer, and DON"T TOUCH YOUR FACE. You can avoid getting "Con Crud" almost guaranteed by doing this.
• Double check your kit: Damage Deck, Templates & Range Ruler, Dice, Ships, bases, cards, etc. & 2 print outs of your list.
• Bathe, set your alarm & Get a good night's rest.
• Make 4 new friends: Learn your opponents' names and something about them: where they traveled from, how they got into the game, etc. Thank them for the game.
• Enjoy yourself. You're playing X-wing--it sure beats going to work!

Good luck!

Bring a list that you know that is potent yet simplistic. Leave the 20 upgrades on a ship for casual play. You just don't have the luxury of trying to mentally stack many upgrades in your head. Half the time after each game you'll find that you've only used a few upgrades effectively

Double check dials or triple check. especially if you are running a mixed pilot skill squad.

Also track the pilot skills of their ships.

If in doubt call a judge.

Keep track of your target locks/effects on their ships. Sometimes people will move their ships and forget to move the target lock

that you worked hard to get on their ship. They aren't trying to cheat, they just forget. Especially with swarms. Basically both sides should make sure that the game state is current.

Chin up! Every game is an opportunity to get more experience.

And the lunch break is often a time that mess with people's rhythm so be wary of that.

2 hours ago, Force Majeure said:

Chin up! Every game is an opportunity to get more experience.

And the lunch break is often a time that mess with people's rhythm so be wary of that.

Ok day done, came 10th out of 14 (1-3) and had great fun all day. Great bunch of players and a very chilled out atmosphere.

The after lunch games were:

A repeat of my Thursday night practice game Vs Kath and her Z-swarm, flown by the same person as well. This time I managed to pull out a win though.

Last game was Vs Supernatural Luke, Wedge, and a Partisan renegade with Leia. That game was a blood bath, pure and simple. Managed to kill the U-wing and get half on both X wings before Guri ran out of luck.

Anything you'd do different? Tweeks to your list?

I can't wait for the store championship season to start!

1 hour ago, Force Majeure said:

Anything you'd do different? Tweeks to your list?

I can't wait for the store championship season to start!

I'm not sure if there is anything I'd change in the list at this stage, most of my problems came from a truly terrible run of bad dice (game 1 I rolled 3 evades across the 3 turns and we were done in 20mins) and there isn't anything you can do with that but roll with it and hope it improves (which it did for game 3 & 4)

So now I've had a bit of time to think about yesterday's tournament here are a few things I've come up with.

First off, the list I flew;

I'm still happy with the squadron and it's performance over all. It was fun to fly and none of my opponents actually considered it an easy list to fly against. That being said, it is definitely far too susceptible to bad dice to be anything other than a fun list. I have to say the Afterburner was one of the stand-out upgrades on the table,the extra options it gave Guri certainly made a difference. The other upgrade that more than pulled it's weight was Advanced Sensors, several players mentioned that they just didn't have a clue where Dalan was going to end up. As a result, I'm now going to throw both these upgrades on Guri and Dalan and then see what I can fit in alongside them.

Now the other things, warning this bit might get random

its probably a bit obvious, but flying the list in its final form before it hit the table in round one would have been really helpful. By the time I flew against my friend in round 3 he could notice the difference in my "dancing" of the Vipers enough that he actually commented on it, and he had only played against me flying Vipers 48 hours beforehand.

As Force Majeure said above in their post, I can't stress enough how important it is to keep your fluid levels up. It was very warm for the time of year in the UK and having recently read the comment meant that I was mindful of keeping ahead with fluids.

Another comment from Force that defineatly helped on the day was about choosing my battles. Mostly in the first round, I was still flying the list as if I had Fearlessness on both Dalan and Xisor, and it contributed to the big loss I took in that round. After that though I was far more prepared to disengage for a turn or two.

My final comment is one that I know that not everyone will agree with.

I'm still not a huge fan of the format.

Now having said that, I now think that it's something I will grow to like more as the roster of ships and cards changes, rather than something I will never play again. I'm not going to de-rail this thread by discussing the pros and cons of the Hyperspace format, at the moment, I'll leave it as a personal choice.