What?!

I've come into possession of a pair of mighty fine alt arts for these 2, so it behooves me to get them both on the table together. Let the theory crafting begin!

I've only run dual Phantoms a couple times and Whisper once at home. Echo is a firm favourite and a ship I'm very comfortable with, but still, list balance is.... foggy.

I have several options so far, and limited options overall, but would be keen to hear of any squads featuring them to fuel my own ideas.

To start, Juke is obvious. I like 5th Bro on Echo a great deal. Whispers bog standard decloak is taking a bit of getting used to, so I'm quite the fan of Collision Detector there. Like this, both are hard to pin down and have relatively safe ways to spend their focus. I don't feel like they need anything more but I'm also happy (ish) running them with less.

1. Probably the one I like most but have the smallest faith in my ability to fly well. Col Det and 5th Bro with Juke's. Plus Vader, Hate, FCS. 199.

Lack of a bid scares me a little but works for Juke. It just makes Vaders frailties easier for my opponents to exploit. Dropping Col Det for Afterburners on him would make sense but he's the beatstick, so having Whisper more able to close and Vader cheaper appeals more...

2. Same Phantoms, plus 3x Academy Pilots. I actually really like this but the sacrificial element of the list seems a little to likely to just die or do nothing against good opponents with a strong joust.

3. Same, plus Gideon and Marksmanship Seyn. Love these 2 but the potential problem with option no.2 is probably even bigger here.

4. Very unsensible but amused me so I'll list it anyway. Just Trick Shot on the Phantoms, plus, Del, Markswoman Seyn and Gideon. Yeah, this seems silly.

5. Finally, the one I'd love to work the most but fails hard on crappy red dice and is overall a bit thin in ways to play it. Just Juke for Whisper, Trick Shot for Echo, plus Juke Rex. With decent reds, it melts things, but so does everything. It's always nice when you can brawl Rex, rather than preserve him though. Comes in at 198, (201 with the 3rd Juke, curse you FFG, you did this on purpose), so if Passive Sensors is 2pt, that'll be sweet.

Clearly there's a bunch of other things that can fit in there but as I say, my options are not complete. I very much favour Col Det and 5th Bro, which leaves 71pts, not enough for 2 strong supporters but good for a 3rd ace. However, that ace needs to be independently strong and fairly tanky.

I could go for a Reaper.... Vader and Tua crew fits with Vermeil. Feroph with Palp appeals in some strange way. Seems frail and easy to just melt though. A Lambda may work instead I guess, but I don't have one and don't really see the need for support here. A brawling version may work, I suppose, but it'll likely just blow up immediately.

So, your thoughts please! And thank you

I've played the following and it was a blast:

- Vader (Hate, Fire-Control System, Afterburners)
- Whisper (Juke, Fifth Brother)
- Echo (Juke)
199 points

Maybe Soontir and Gideon...

I’d go Delta defender, 🔝 blocker.

Both named juke phantoms + delta are 184 points. HU/SU are always nice on phantoms...

Thanks for the suggestions.

Vader feels like a strong choice.

I like the idea of slimming the Phantoms for Soontir and Gideon but feel like that'll demand far more skill to pull off than I have

I1 Defender is not a bad idea. Personally not had great experiences with the lower Init pilots there, without coord help. They're predictable and very easy for certain things to avoid. Mainly I feel they don't hit very hard for their points unless you feed them in some way. Could be workable here, certainly a very tanky blocker.

Had another thing I tried just once on Fly Casual. SNR, Conc Missile, Seventh Sister..... She blanked and got one shotted on the 1st engage by a Blue Squad Rookie, so I didn't look back

SNR is anti-synergistic with her but works well on the v1 chassis for stacking up and getting into position.

She is terrific though, been using her upgrade free, with Rex and Echo. I was pondering Hate, FCS and Prockets for her. Probably not a good balance here, she works best kept cheap as chips imo.

Could put a ton more points on the Phantoms though, would be fun, if not great....

I would do the 3x Academy Pilots. More ships is always a good thing.

Just saying... 😂

“Whisper” (54)
Juke (5)

“Echo” (50)
Juke (5)

Captain Oicunn (78)
Minister Tua (7)
Total: 199

1 hour ago, C3gorach said:

Just saying... 😂

“Whisper” (54)
Juke (5)

“Echo” (50)
Juke (5)

Captain Oicunn (78)
Minister Tua (7)
Total: 199

Haha, I might be up for this if I had one. I like crashing my ships into things on purpose but never really fly anything that enjoys it

Give both the phantoms just Juke, and then Scourge Skutu and Duchess, both with Predator - masters of the slip

On 4/17/2019 at 3:29 AM, Greebwahn said:

Give both the phantoms just Juke, and then Scourge Skutu and Duchess, both with Predator - masters of the slip

I really like this idea. Similar to the Soontir suggestion though, I have considerable doubt over my ability to avoid it all going pop, particularly with the Phantoms stripped down. May try it once I get the 2.0 Striker in the next few weeks.

This evening, I took Whisper with Juke and Col Det, Echo with Juke and 5th Bro and Vader with Hate and FCS. Played 3 games and I am sold on Vader!

Not particularly stringent tests. Played twice against 3 Jedi, it was the 1st time he'd actually flown them though. Took about 15min to utterly dismantle them at the cost of a few shields, so we set up again.

Screwed up my 2nd set of manoeuvres. Having all 3 in tight together so they can switch and fade or offset joust, takes numerous different plans and I confused a couple with my deployment.

The joust was favourable so I attempted to set up the appearance of one. Which would then split into a box for an unlucky Mace/Ahsoka while Anakin snuck out into a less threatening position. Bumped Vader and blocked Echo's out decloak for the engage on turn 3.... (My opponent is a very aggressive player :D)

Discovered that you don't correct these kind of mistakes by attempting to knife fight Jedi in the asteroids with Phantoms. Attempted to jump Anakin instead and it half worked, but then went downhill quickly.

Was still fairly close after fudging through, might have been able to get a win with a full health Vader and 2 hull Whisper, with more time, but it would have been a longish shot.

Lastly against a newer player with 4 Torrents and Mace. An uncomfortable whitewash. Lost a shield each off Vader and Whisper. Apologised many times and discussed fairly deeply where he could have made things more difficult for me. Seemed a very hard match up for his squad.

So I was looking for a semi sacrificial, hard hitting 3rd wheel for the Phantoms to play off of. Vader is not your typical filler.... he is quite the brick to hit opponents with. Certainly impossible to ignore and does not die easy. Very much like that he is expected to be the ace but is actually just a monster of an anvil.

Echo is the real killer ❤️ ❤️ ❤️

Would like to fit Passive Sensors in, (or even later, Targetting Computer). If I am more comfortable with Whisper's semi predictable decloak by then, Col Det will hopefully make way for a couple copies.