3 hours ago, OddballE8 said:

That's the reason that was given, though...

Read here: https://comicvine.gamespot.com/forums/off-topic-5/boba-and-jango-fett-are-not-mandalorian-1554690/

(But yes, I would agree that the underlying, yet unspoken, reason is that fan-worship for a character that Lucas wanted to be a villain. One that he simply couldn't understand why anyone would like.)

Apart from Death Watch mooks all having the same colour scheme, this does not at all describe what Mandalorians in the Clone Wars show looked like. It also implies that the Star Wars universe doesn't have paint. So I agree that Filoni was probably doing damage control for Lucas.

Fans loving the villains too much is pretty much the one thing that will set off Lucas. Even the real life 501st Legion ran into that when they were just starting out.

3 hours ago, DanteRotterdam said:

Again, someone seems to conveniently disregard the fact that Jango is the only character whose origins are denoted as “claimed” constantly just for the sake of arguing his initial point. There is a reason that word is used

For some reason, I am now waiting for a map of The Mandalor system with something added in sharpy to get posted.

Just to be clear, I was joking around a bit here and am not trying to be rude or mean spirited. I am trying to be more aware of tone in internet behavior.

4 hours ago, DanteRotterdam said:

Just to be clear, I was joking around a bit here and am not trying to be rude or mean spirited. I am trying to be more aware of tone in internet behavior.

Understandable. I'd say that most of us who have been around these forums long enough have seen enough head in the sand behavior from certain individuals to get a good chuckle from your comment.

16 hours ago, Tramp Graphics said:

This article pretty much nails it. If Fenn Rau is Mandalorian, despite only coming from Concord Dawn, not Mandalore proper. So, if Fenn Rau is Mandalorian by virtue of coming from a Mandalorian colony world, then Jango Fett is Mandalorian for the same reason.

And yet, it was Pablo Hidalgo who wrote the book which establishes Jango Fett as still coming from Concord Dawn, a Mandalorian colony world, in the current canon. As such, it still falls under the "Certain Point of View". Jango Fett is not from Mandalore, not a part of the "New Mandalorian faction. He is from a Mandalorian colony and was raised in Madalorian customs. So, he may not be Mandalorian by birth or by pure blood from Mandalore proper, but he is by culture, and upbringing on a Mandalorian colony. And this is backed up by Almec's statements, such as, “No Mandalorian would engage in such violence,” and “All of our warriors were exiled to our moon, Concordia. They died out years ago.” This strongly suggests that Almec does not consider anyone following the "old ways" as not being Mandalorian.

More likely it's his not being from Mandalore proper and not following the Pacifist "New Mandalorian" mindset. If anything, Jango Fett and Boba Fett embody the heart of Mandalorian warrior culture more than any of the "New Mandalorians" on Mandalore.

Jon Favereau has said that The title character is indeed Mandalorian.

Pretty much. In fact, apparently, Karen Travis cut ties with Lucasfilm because of what GL did with the Mandalorians in the Clone Wars. And yet, Filoni has continued where Ms Travis left off, regarding Mandalorian culture. However, Ms Travis didn't so much write Mandalorians as "perfect space marines", so much as based them on historical nomadic warrior cultures such as the Vikings, Mongols, and Spartans; primarily the Vikings.

I liked.what Traviss did in the Clone Commando books. I didnt like what i saw in legacy of the force stuff. That was dumb. But is seemed like authors having a spat in the novels. Each author undoing the work of the previous author

I don't know about the pacifist Mandos, but I think if you'd ask even the most hardcore Deathwatch fanatics about the Fetts, you'd get something along these lines:

We don't care where he was born, or if he was the most decorated Mando general in history. Jango Fett created milions of fake Mandalorians, gave them to the Jedi and the Republic or Empire or whatever they're calling themselves now, and his actions directly resulted in Mandalore no longer being a free world. If he weren't dead we'd kill him.

Boba? Not even a person. He's something a bunch of aliens created in a lab on the orders of a traitor.

1 hour ago, Daeglan said:

I liked.what Traviss did in the Clone Commando books. I didnt like what i saw in legacy of the force stuff. That was dumb. But is seemed like authors having a spat in the novels. Each author undoing the work of the previous author

Generally speaking, Traviss’ Legacy of the Force books felt like they were part of a completely different sub-series, and could have been skipped without missing a beat of the storyline.

2 hours ago, Nytwyng said:

Generally speaking, Traviss’ Legacy of the Force books felt like they were part of a completely different sub-series, and could have been skipped without missing a beat of the storyline.

Yeah i pretty much skipped them. I heard nothing good

16 hours ago, Nytwyng said:

He’s talking to a Jedi who shouldn’t know about this clone army, but has shown up out of the blue asking questions...one of the same two Jedi who were by Zam’s side when he killed her before she could implicate him in the attempted murder of a Republic senator. Exactly the kind of circumstance to downplay one’s skills and importance, rather than deciding to borrow Wolverine’s trademark, “I’m the best there is at what I do...and what I do isn’t pretty.” He then tries to kill that Jedi, makes a bee line for Geonosis where he tries to kill the Jedi again, then takes a seat in a royal box next to the leader of the Separatists (who he’d have to recognize as the “Tyranus” who hired him as the template for the other side’s army) to watch what’s supposed to be the execution of two Jedi and that Republic senator on a Separatist world. Hardly the actions of a free agent.

All of which is beside one simple truth: as far as LFL is currently concerned, he’s not Mandalorian.

Out of genuine curiosity, Tramp, why so invested in the character’s status as a Mandalorian?

Simple, without him we wouldn't even have the Mandalorians to begin with. He's the very archetype of the Mandalorian upon whom the entire Mandalorian culture was based upon by the writers.

Secondly, if Obi-Wan wasn't supposed to know about the Clones, why would the Kaminoans have been so surprised it took so long for a representative of the Jedi Order to arrive to check on the status of the clones being produced for them. The Kaminoans were expecting someone from the Jedi for a rather long time. So, Jango would also have been expecting such a representative as well. So no, it should not have come as that much of a surprise that someone from the Jedi Order would eventually come to check on the clones.

15 hours ago, OddballE8 said:

That's the reason that was given, though...

Read here: https://comicvine.gamespot.com/forums/off-topic-5/boba-and-jango-fett-are-not-mandalorian-1554690/

(But yes, I would agree that the underlying, yet unspoken, reason is that fan-worship for a character that Lucas wanted to be a villain. One that he simply couldn't understand why anyone would like.)

That's the key right there. IT's why he was so surprised that the EU writers brought back Boba Fett after his fall into the Sarlacc; It's also why he wanted to "make sure" that Maul was assuredly dead at the end of TPM, by having him cut in half. He didn't want people trying to bring him back from the "dead". Didn't work though.

13 hours ago, DanteRotterdam said:

Again, someone seems to conveniently disregard the fact that Jango is the only character whose origins are denoted as “claimed” constantly just for the sake of arguing his initial point. There is a reason that word is used

For some reason, I am now waiting for a map of The Mandalor system with something added in sharpy to get posted.

Yes, the reason is because as a character, he keeps his history to himself. This is also stated in that same source. The only thing he has divulged about his origins is his home world.

10 hours ago, micheldebruyn said:

Apart from Death Watch mooks all having the same colour scheme, this does not at all describe what Mandalorians in the Clone Wars show looked like. It also implies that the Star Wars universe doesn't have paint. So I agree that Filoni was probably doing damage control for Lucas.

Fans loving the villains too much is pretty much the one thing that will set off Lucas. Even the real life 501st Legion ran into that when they were just starting out.

Pretty much.

No, it wasn't Jango - it alllll started with Boba, all the way back to the ESB novelization.

So we've got a thread discussing whether or not the Fetts were Mandalorians and another discussing the homebrew stats of a certain ship going on at the same time. I fear that if someone starts a discussion on the game effects of armor, the forum will implode.

9 hours ago, Tramp Graphics said:

The only thing he has divulged about his origins is his home world.

Which is disputed.

If he had come from that place it would have said so. It doesn’t.

Sorry TG, it looks like you're pretty much alone on this one.

" At first glance, the lead character on The Mandalorian is just Boba Fett by another name. But look closer. Boba Fett, despite that armor, wasn’t actually Mandalorian (he was a clone who culturally appropriated the look). "

From - https://ew.com/tv/2019/09/05/inside-the-mandalorian-star-wars/?utm_term=5A76B508-D042-11E9-8E14-95A4FCA12A29&utm_campaign=entertainmentweekly_entertainmentweekly&utm_medium=social&utm_source=facebook.com&utm_content=link

6 hours ago, Ahrimon said:

Sorry TG, it looks like you're pretty much alone on this one.

" At first glance, the lead character on The Mandalorian is just Boba Fett by another name. But look closer. Boba Fett, despite that armor, wasn’t actually Mandalorian (he was a clone who culturally appropriated the look). "

From - https://ew.com/tv/2019/09/05/inside-the-mandalorian-star-wars/?utm_term=5A76B508-D042-11E9-8E14-95A4FCA12A29&utm_campaign=entertainmentweekly_entertainmentweekly&utm_medium=social&utm_source=facebook.com&utm_content=link

"Alone on this one"?

Dude... we're specifically talking about how Fett (both Fetts) was "undone" as a mandalorian by Lucas because he was pissy about how much fans liked Fett, pretty much.

I mean, without Fett there wouldn't have been Mandalorians in the first place!

And The Mandalorian is being made by Filoni, who was a culprit (for lack of a better word) in what Lucas did to the Fetts, so of course he's going to keep toting that line.

But the point here is that there's just way too much inconsistency for it to make sense that Fett (at least Jango) was never a Mandalorian.

Nobody here is actually claiming that Fett IS a Mandalorian in the actual canon. We're just saying it's completely and utterly stupid that he isn't.




What we have here is basically another instance of Lucas being Lucas, but it's being brought over to Disneys canon by those who were closest to Lucas.

It's the whole "lightsabers can't be blocked by anything but lightsabers, and then I change my mind and they can and then I change my mind again and they can't" thing that lead to the dark saber.

Lucas is a great idea-man. But he's **** at maintaining consistency in his fictional universe. He's like a fickle creator god who keeps changing the fabric of reality because of his whims.

Thankfully, that won't happen much under Disney, but unfortunately it also means that some of the things he's fickled around with at the end of the Lucas canon era will carry over to Disneys canon.

Like, for example, the fact that he changed the Fetts from being Mandalorians to not being Mandalorians because "he didn't want the Mandalorians in Clone Wars to look like a bunch of vagabonds".

And this is basically one of two main reasons the Fetts are now not considered actual Mandalorians.

(The first and foremost reason (IMHO) is, of course, the fact that Lucas acts like a petulant child when fans don't see things his way. And since he only saw Fett as a disposable villain like he did Darth Maul, he got upset when fans really liked Fett and started to show interest in his background and mythos... so he changed Fetts EU background from something interesting to "he's just a clone of someone else", and then when people kinda liked Jango as well, he just went ahead and made Jango an imposter who just nicked a Mandalorian armour somewhere.)

I can agree with that. Lucas is great for ideas, but lord forbid, never ask him to name anything and don’t ask for elaboration. That’s where Sheev comes from.

10 hours ago, LordBritish said:

I can agree with that. Lucas is great for ideas, but lord forbid, never ask him to name anything and don’t ask for elaboration. That’s where Sheev comes from.

And it's why Obi-Wan Kenobi comes from Stewjohn

🙄

In my Star Wars the Fett is a mandolorian clan and both Jango and Boba are mandalorian. It's the pacificist mandolorian that aren't true ones. And many clones who survived the clones war were accepted in mandalorian clans because they are mandalorian. You only two things to be a mandalorian : to make yours the mandalorian code and to be accepted in a mandalorian clan. Being born on a mandalorian planet and / or inside a mandalorian clan isn't enough to automatically become a mandalorian. You must prove it. And once you're a mandalorian you'll stay a mandalorian forever, even if you disallowed by your clan.

16 minutes ago, WolfRider said:

In my Star Wars the Fett is a mandolorian clan and both Jango and Boba are mandalorian. It's the pacificist mandolorian that aren't true ones. And many clones who survived the clones war were accepted in mandalorian clans because they are mandalorian. You only two things to be a mandalorian : to make yours the mandalorian code and to be accepted in a mandalorian clan. Being born on a mandalorian planet and / or inside a mandalorian clan isn't enough to automatically become a mandalorian. You must prove it. And once you're a mandalorian you'll stay a mandalorian forever, even if you disallowed by your clan.

What I don't get here is why a veteran of the Grand Army of the Republic would even want to join up with the Mandalorians, or care even a tiny little bit about their code.

To set the record straight, canonically, the Fetts aren't Mandalorians, though there's a bit of an interesting development later on with Boba.

The most recent Character Encyclopedias ("Despite having no affiliation with Mandalore, Jango Fett wears the armored uniform that helped make the Mandalorians a dreaded name."), The Visual Encyclopedia ("Iconic Mandalorian helmets are so well made that even non-Mandalorians like Jango Fett find ways to acquire them for their own needs."}, and Scum and Villainy ("I believe Fett's equipment to be authentic, even though he is not of Mandalorian heritage.") all corroborate that the Fetts aren't of Mandalorian heritage, the latter of which having been written from an in-universe perspective by law enforcement and intelligence officials. The newest edition of the Visual Dictionary puts to print what Pablo Hidalgo said about Jango's relationship with Concord Dawn on Twitter, which he said because Ultimate Star Wars was in error ("Fett claims to have been born on the Mandalorian planet Concord Dawn, but his true history remains a mystery - just the way he likes it."). However, per Sabine's story in Rise of the Rebels, Boba's exploits as a bounty hunter ultimately only helped spread the legend that the Mandalorians were the most fearsome warriors in the galaxy, so to most people IU , he might as well BE Mandalorians.

13 hours ago, micheldebruyn said:

What I don't get here is why a veteran of the Grand Army of the Republic would even want to join up with the Mandalorians, or care even a tiny little bit about their code.

According to the Traviss Republic commando novels, most of the specops clones were trained by mandalorians, including the mandalorian culture

3 hours ago, Rimsen said:

According to the Traviss Republic commando novels, most of the specops clones were trained by mandalorians, including the mandalorian culture

Yes, that. For me if the clones were trained by Mandalorians, they received the Mandalorian culture as part of this training. IRl I was trained as commando and the commando culture was a big part of it. We had to make it our own to receive our green beret at the end of the course. actually those who were unable to do so were dismissed well before the end.

Another reason is I've read somewhere that after during the years after the Empire replaced the Republic, clones were removed from its armed forces. It was logical for me that Mandalorian clans would welcome those willing to join.

I think it's obvious by what I said that I don't like very much the current cannon for the Mandalorians. At my table it my Star Wars not Lucas or any other authors Star Was. I feel free to accept or reject anything canon.

Well, there's two things here.

1) Stuff Traviss wrote isn't canon, and hadn't been for ages even before the EU got decanonised (in as much that the EU was ever was canon at all). That stuff went out back when the Clone Wars show came out.

2) Mandalore post-Clone Wars is an Imperial world.

I absolutely do not miss Traviss’ contributions. It always read like she wanted to be playing in a totally different sandbox.

5 hours ago, Nytwyng said:

I absolutely do not miss Traviss’ contributions. It always read like she wanted to be playing in a totally different sandbox.

Which contributions? The legacy stuff or the clone commando stuff? The clone commando stuff added definately was useful and gave a good nomadic warrior culture. The legacy stuff came across as authors fighting.with each other

13 minutes ago, Daeglan said:

Which contributions? The legacy stuff or the clone commando stuff? The clone commando stuff added definately was useful and gave a good nomadic warrior culture. The legacy stuff came across as authors fighting.with each other

Her contributions in general. At best, like I said, it felt like she wanted to be writing in a different fictional universe. At its worst, we got to the “Chuck Norris Mandalorians” - you know, a Mandalorian once killed twenty Jedi by pointing his finger and saying, “Bang!”

And, as always, I’m honest enough to factor personal tastes in there. I found it a chore to get through her work. Also honest enough to say that, while I probably have them all sitting on my shelf, I definitely haven’t read them all.

1 hour ago, Nytwyng said:

Her contributions in general. At best, like I said, it felt like she wanted to be writing in a different fictional universe. At its worst, we got to the “Chuck Norris Mandalorians” - you know, a Mandalorian once killed twenty Jedi by pointing his finger and saying, “Bang!”

And, as always, I’m honest enough to factor personal tastes in there. I found it a chore to get through her work. Also honest enough to say that, while I probably have them all sitting on my shelf, I definitely haven’t read them all.

I found her early stuff fit fine. It gave the mando dimension they were seriously lacking. There was this mystique about the mando with no depth. Largely i think because most things in star wars lack depth