I'm of the mindset that an all around scum faction doesn't really suit the play style of Legion.

Now, that leaves out a LOT of models, that people would buy.

So what would I do if I were in charge of Legion development?

Well, let me tell you. I would take any new things learned from developing the clone wars era, that will have a wider variety of miniature types.

Then, while developing the sequel factions, I'd develop a smaller squad based game, using the same model scale and mechanics, that focuses on mercenaries - similar to kill team or mordheim (or countless others) in scope.

Again, same overarching mechanics, but a squad of mini-operatives as it were.

Having "Merc" units could work, provided there's some form of limit on numbers

Say, no more that 2 "Merc" units in a list and you cannot have your only Commander be a "Merc"

I thought the Rebels were the Scum 😂

I would love to see some of the supporting folks find a way into the game, some house Wren to back up Sabine, Skull Squadron and maybe house Saxons. Even some of the weird stuff like Gomorians and Tusken raiders and of course any excuse to get Hondo in the game. I am not sure if a Scum faction is the way to do it, but some unaligned groups would be cool.

the show takes place post ROTJ right?

maybe this will help flesh out a resistance faction?

26 minutes ago, TylerTT said:

the show takes place post ROTJ right?

maybe this will help flesh out a resistance faction?

Yes to post ROTJ. No to fleshing out the resistance. It takes place before the First Order, focused more outside the war between the New Republic and remaining Imperial forces

13 hours ago, BlueSquadronPilot said:

Yes to post ROTJ. No to fleshing out the resistance. It takes place before the First Order, focused more outside the war between the New Republic and remaining Imperial forces

Shouldn't that be over well before this point? Jakku happened right about a year after Endor, and Grand Vizier Mas Amedda surrendered shortly thereafter. Who's left to fight? The crappy Aftermath books made it pretty clear that what wasn't destroyed at Jakku went with Sloane into the Unknown Regions to build what would become the First Order.

14 minutes ago, Alpha17 said:

Shouldn't that be over well before this point? Jakku happened right about a year after Endor, and Grand Vizier Mas Amedda surrendered shortly thereafter. Who's left to fight? The crappy Aftermath books made it pretty clear that what wasn't destroyed at Jakku went with Sloane into the Unknown Regions to build what would become the First Order.

What I was referencing to was the wiki on the New Republic

"The Republic ultimately won the Galactic Civil War; after the Battle of Jakku, the Empire formally surrendered in 5 ABY by signing a peace treaty known as the Galactic Concordance. With the war concluded and the Empire dissolved into a rump state and various holdouts—while a powerless, provisional government on Coruscant was installed—the Republic's armed forces were significantly reduced through the Military Disarmament Act. "

But upon reading some more in particular this,

"Although the Concordance called for all Imperial forces to retreat into Imperial space in the Core, some rogue warlords refused however, along with the illegally established faction that became locked into the cold war with the New Republic. In spite of all this, loyal portions of the Imperial Navy adhered to the terms of the Concordance and confined themselves to the predetermined boundaries. In turn, the now-reduced Imperial Navy would exist as the region's dominant military force. Despite the presence of these Star Destroyers throughout the Core and Inner Rim, they did not attack the Republic, as the remnant maintained a peaceful co-existence with the reigning galactic government.^[1]

Whereas the more aggressive hardliners refused to accept pardons, those Imperial officers who agreed to the New Republic's strict stipulations were not branded as war criminals. While the Imperial Navy remained confined to the region, the requirement that it close down its Imperial academies meant that no further stormtroopers could be trained, although this did not necessarily apply to standard infantry.^[4] Still, despite the established presence of a military, the stipulations placed upon it from the New Republic made it difficult for the remnant to renew the Old Empire's campaign against the former Rebel Alliance.^[9]"

I thought they were still fighting the holdouts who refused, but it was just a cold war. So that was a mistake on my part. Regardless, the point was that it takes place outside of the New Republic and Imperials hold on the core and established system

26 minutes ago, Alpha17 said:

Shouldn't that be over well before this point? Jakku happened right about a year after Endor, and Grand Vizier Mas Amedda surrendered shortly thereafter. Who's left to fight? The crappy Aftermath books made it pretty clear that what wasn't destroyed at Jakku went with Sloane into the Unknown Regions to build what would become the First Order.

It's Disney. They're going to be using the IP in the most profitable way they can. If their own canon is in the way of profit, then the canon has got to go.

2 hours ago, Alpha17 said:

Shouldn't that be over well before this point? Jakku happened right about a year after Endor, and Grand Vizier Mas Amedda surrendered shortly thereafter. Who's left to fight? The crappy Aftermath books made it pretty clear that what wasn't destroyed at Jakku went with Sloane into the Unknown Regions to build what would become the First Order.

Well, in canon from the Aftermath books, Eleodie Maracavanya is running around in Liberty's Misrule, a captured SSD and running a pirate kingdom. With the Empire's fall, there's a power vacuum that the New Republic is going to have to work on filling.

I'm sure there will be other such elements introduced as Disney needs them for Mandalorian.

Personally, I want a mercenary faction to be able to field an army of Weequay pirates led by Hondo, one of my favourite characters from Clone Wars/Rebels. Other people want to field Mandalorians, which in Clone Wars are more associated with the Shadow Collective than any existing faction in my opinion.

On 4/15/2019 at 11:12 AM, That Blasted Samophlange said:

Again, same overarching mechanics, but a squad of mini-operatives as it were.

I'm not opposed to that idea. I have found myself preferring true "skirmish" style games of late.

1

1 minute ago, Caimheul1313 said:

Well, in canon from the Aftermath books, Eleodie Maracavanya is running around in Liberty's Misrule, a captured SSD and running a pirate kingdom. With the Empire's fall, there's a power vacuum that the New Republic is going to have to work on filling.

I'm sure there will be other such elements introduced as Disney needs them for Mandalorian.

Understood, but that really shouldn't count as an "Imperial Remnant" as they had no real connection with the Empire besides a captured ship.

One of the major problems I've had with Disney's timeline is just how rapidly the Empire fell, and how they completely rejected the idea of the EU's Warlords and the Warlord era. Kinda funny that as they need to, Disney is perfectly willing to change their canon on both.

5 minutes ago, Alpha17 said:

Understood, but that really shouldn't count as an "Imperial Remnant" as they had no real connection with the Empire besides a captured ship.

One of the major problems I've had with Disney's timeline is just how rapidly the Empire fell, and how they completely rejected the idea of the EU's Warlords and the Warlord era. Kinda funny that as they need to, Disney is perfectly willing to change their canon on both.

I agree that zhe isn't leading an "Imperial Remnant," but I believe mention has been made of Imperial Warlords in the Aftermath books. I could see that as being treated as "dealing with the remnants of the Empire," since the leftover military equipment is what makes some of the criminal factions a credible threat.

I don't think Disney's really done a ton with the Post OT, Pre NT era yet (certainly not as much as the old Legends stuff). As they need antagonist for media, I wouldn't be surprised if former Imperial Warlords become a thing again.

EDIT: At the very least I wouldn't be surprised if some bounties are former Imperial war criminals who have so far escaped, or are in areas the NR lacks influence.

Considering how long it's taken them to stand up the OT factions and that they're adding 2 new ones that will likely need the same level of investment, any other new factions are probably a long time coming.

I'm hoping they don't add a generic Scum faction, I want some actual gang factions.

• Hutts
• Black Suns
• Crimson Dawn

3 hours ago, Bryancar said:

I'm hoping they don't add a generic Scum faction, I want some actual gang factions.

• Hutts
• Black Suns
• Crimson Dawn

My initial response to something like this is pretty "meh."

But.

What about having several Scum mini-factions that have just a commander, one generic corps-type unit, and then one or two special units (vehicle/support/special forces) or something like that... And to play as the Scum faction, you pick 1-2 sub-factions to build your army with? Have a bunch of Operatives that work with any sub-factions?

I still don't find it very likely, but that could keep it from being a complete hodge-podge. I like it better than the idea of completely separate mini-factions or one big Scum faction, to be honest.

Just in the realm of speculation, but if they ever do Old Republic armies, I'd kill for Mandalorian Crusaders

No, it will not. It will give us plenty bounty hunters - maybe even bounty hunter good guys. But a full faction worth of stuff for Legion, probably not.

If you can't imagine a group of criminals having the firepower necessary for going head to head with an Imperial or Rebel platoon, then you need to watch Kelly's heroes, Public Enemies, The Magnificent Seven/The Seven Samurai, Solo, or heck, just watch any news reports about South American Cartels. As for generic vs specific factions, generic is much better. Let FFG provide us with options to make our armies unique instead of creating artificial boundaries. If you can't imagine Hutts working alongside Crimson Dawn for a job, then I can't imagine how you must feel about Palpatine and Boba Fett leading an army of Snowtroopers and Dewback riders...

The main issue is if a criminal faction can fill out a full list with analogs for the units of the existing factions.

well...

Stormtrooper/Reb Trooper Analogue: Thugs. Cantina bois with blaster pistols and vibroknives. Cheap, cowardly and maybe some dirty tricks with their upgrade cards.

Snowtrooper/Fleet Trooper Analogue: Pirates. Weequay, Nikto and grungy humans with some body armor and rifles.

Shoretrooper/Veteran Analogue: Some sort of professionals. Crimson Dawn troopers from Solo, Pyke soldiers or even just generic heavy duty criminals with a quad cannon or deck gun attached.

Scout trooper/Rebel Commando Analogue: Bounty Hunters. Think of the teams that Cad Bane worked with in the Clone Wars Show. This would be a great set to throw in some different heads to make them unique. Obviously one would be a sniper and one would have some sort of charge.

Imperial Royal Guard/Wookies Analogue: Gammoreans. 3 big piggies with axes and blaster pistols plus one with a vibrohalberd.

Deathtrooper/Pathfinder Analogue: Mandalorean mercs. Lots of gear options, a variety of weapons for the different configs.

AT-RT/Dewback Analogue: Bantha Rider, Heavy Speeder Bike (Like Rey's)

Speeder Bike/Tauntaun Analogue: Swoop Bike gangers.

E-Web/Rebel Laser Analogue: Any sort of mounted gun. There were a few in Solo.

Heavies are already not particularly analagous between factions so it could be any number of options: Skiff Speeder, Armored up landspeeder, Hovertank...

Operatives and commanders (same as heavies): Jabba, Hondo, IG-88, Hondo, Zuckuss, Hondo, 4-LOM, Hondo, Dengar, Hondo, Azmorrigan, Hondo, Dryden Voss, Hondo, Cikatro Vizago, Hondo, Dr. Evezan and Ponda Baba, Hondo, Hondo, Hondo...

I think that at the skirmish level that Legion operates in, Scum is entirely possible.

23 hours ago, SpiderMana said:

My initial response to something like this is pretty "meh."

But.

What about having several Scum mini-factions that have just a commander, one generic corps-type unit, and then one or two special units (vehicle/support/special forces) or something like that... And to play as the Scum faction, you pick 1-2 sub-factions to build your army with? Have a bunch of Operatives that work with any sub-factions?

I still don't find it very likely, but that could keep it from being a complete hodge-podge. I like it better than the idea of completely separate mini-factions or one big Scum faction, to be honest.

I think they could pull this off by having Scum's faction identity consist of a number of sub factions. So all of their units are the 'Scum and Villainy' faction but different groups of them have loyalty key words that interact with each other. So if you want to run an all Crimson Dawn squad you get rewarded with greater loyalty, but if you run a tenuous alliance of different cartels you end up with more flexibility but more chances for betrayal and desertion.

22 minutes ago, KommanderKeldoth said:

more chances for betrayal and desertion

Ooo the courage mechanic would definitely be a cool mechanic for Scum thematically like that. Not every group would need to interact but like. +1 courage for matching your commander’s subfaction? And “if [other subfaction’s commander] is in play on your team, -1 courage”?

I’m not super familiar with that mechanic yet. Still waiting on a check so I can run and buy the core set, but. You get the gist of what I mean here.

Just now, SpiderMana said:

Ooo the courage mechanic would definitely be a cool mechanic for Scum thematically like that. Not every group would need to interact but like. +1 courage for matching your commander’s subfaction? And “if [other subfaction’s commander] is in play on your team, -1 courage”?

I’m not super familiar with that mechanic yet. Still waiting on a check so I can run and buy the core set, but. You get the gist of what I mean here.

Yeah that's kind of what I was thinking. Another way to do it would be a keyword that makes it so that instead of panicking, a unit will attack a friendly unit of a different sub faction, so basically your tenuous alliance is all well and good until the poodoo hits the fan and then they will start betraying each other.

What about a mechanic where most units have a sub-faction keyword, e.g. Jabba's Court, Crimson Dawn, Black Sun, and if a unit belongs to a specific sub-faction then it can't get order tokens from orders issued by another faction?

In practice, Gamorrean Guards from Jabba's Court can get issued orders by Jabba, but not Prince Xizor from Black Sun?

It'll represent the different factions working together, but only out of convenience.

1 hour ago, FearofaBlankPlanet said:

What about a mechanic where most units have a sub-faction keyword, e.g. Jabba's Court, Crimson Dawn, Black Sun, and if a unit belongs to a specific sub-faction then it can't get order tokens from orders issued by another faction?

In practice, Gamorrean Guards from Jabba's Court can get issued orders by Jabba, but not Prince Xizor from Black Sun?

It'll represent the different factions working together, but only out of convenience.

I'd change that to: "It can't get order tokens from non-generic orders issued by another faction".

Aside from that, it's exactly how I'd imagine it. Maybe the rule would be handled through the text of the order card, with the keyword having no effect in itself, though.

I would only accept penalties of not being able to issue orders between subfactions if they applied the same logic to the other factions. Specifically: Imperial guards not being able to take orders from anyone other than the emperor. Those dudes even stood up to Vader! In other words, I would rather not have a crippled faction that operates with penalties that none of the other factions have to deal with. It may seem like it makes sense but think about it this way. If they have already gotten to the point where multiple crime factions have agreed to work together on a job, they aren't going to screw it up that far into it. Sure they will bicker beforehand about who is calling the shots, and they will definitely stab each other in the backs after it is all said and done but are they really going to shoot themselves in the foot when there are stormtroopers or rebels looking to do just that to them already?

6 hours ago, LennoxPoodle said:

I'd change that to: "It can't get order tokens from non-generic orders issued by another faction".

Aside from that, it's exactly how I'd imagine it. Maybe the rule would be handled through the text of the order card, with the keyword having no effect in itself, though.

That could make sense. Maybe the character specific orders specifically name going to members of their crew, e.g. Jabba's orders specifically name that they go to Jabba's Court units, since they're the ones Jabba trusts more and knows how to get the best out of them.

Or maybe Jabba's Court members get better bonuses from Jabba's command cards than units from outside Jabba's Court, but Jabba can still give orders with maybe some level of benefit to units outside Jabba's Court.

5 hours ago, devin.pike.1989 said:

I would only accept penalties of not being able to issue orders between subfactions if they applied the same logic to the other factions. Specifically: Imperial guards not being able to take orders from anyone other than the emperor. Those dudes even stood up to Vader! In other words, I would rather not have a crippled faction that operates with penalties that none of the other factions have to deal with. It may seem like it makes sense but think about it this way. If they have already gotten to the point where multiple crime factions have agreed to work together on a job, they aren't going to screw it up that far into it. Sure they will bicker beforehand about who is calling the shots, and they will definitely stab each other in the backs after it is all said and done but are they really going to shoot themselves in the foot when there are stormtroopers or rebels looking to do just that to them already?

Well, that's why I'd make it only apply to the unique commander specific cards. We already have certain command cards, which impose limitations on who can be activated by them. Also such limitations widen the design space for scum versatility and power due to preventing death star level synergy "abuse". Maybe it would fix the problems villainy is having in X-Wing according to earlier posts. In other words it allows FFG to implement funny shenanigans without having to worry to much about their potentially broken interaction.