1 minute ago, Cloaker said:

This is the ultimate mic drop on the topic to anyone who'd refute, really.

Only for if Hyperspace has been defined or not, to be honest. The rest of what has been gone over in this thread seems to be centered on local area experiences. Allot of "I've seen this issue where I play, there is a problem." being met with "Well over here we don't have that, you're nuts."...

When I saw the list of ships that were made Hyperspace legal but weren't in line to be re-printed yet, I figured they couldn't all make Wave 5. I wasn't sure if any of them would, but that's only because I thought maybe that Wave 5 would do something unique, like re-print Epic, have some crazy Squadron Packs, or even do those card packs.

It's weirder to me because I didn't plan on playing Hyperspace, but I at least agreed that it would be a place for new players to start without having to catch up on things that may not be back in print for awhile.

2 minutes ago, Darth Meanie said:

Um, cuz they're new??

Maybe they should just cut their teeth on what's available for awhile, and worry about winning a hyperspace tournament or extended play for later.

I got into M:TG around 4th Edition, and I never thought to cry about not having moxes.

You're one type of player. Not representative of all. If we lose the hyper exaggerated sense of self righteousness that we as gamers are sometimes privy to, we might be able to come to consensus on the fact that the issue exists for others beyond us.

4 minutes ago, TasteTheRainbow said:

Not really. It’s still easier that if extended was the only format. Quite a lot easier.

Agreed, if everything was available to everyone. But that's not what we're talking about here, right?

4 minutes ago, Hiemfire said:

Only for if Hyperspace has been defined or not, to be honest. The rest of what has been gone over in this thread seems to be centered on local area experiences. Allot of "I've seen this issue where I play, there is a problem." being met with "Well over here we don't have that, you're nuts."...

Which means there is a climate of confusion, right? And if seasoned players are engaged in that, we might do well to empathize with the situation that might exist outside our own microcosms.

Hyperspace, as of the recent changes, reneges on something that makes the game better, indisputably.

8 minutes ago, Cloaker said:

You're one type of player. Not representative of all. If we lose the hyper exaggerated sense of self righteousness that we as gamers are sometimes privy to, we might be able to come to consensus on the fact that the issue exists for others beyond us.

Yes. Clearly I’m the one on the high horse here.

Just now, Cloaker said:

Hyperspace, as of the recent changes, reneges on something that makes the game better, indisputably.

Not entirely I think. While there are definitely ships that may be problematic to come by if a new player wishes to use them, there are also allot of inprint/new options available still that new players can get ahold of depending on LGS stock or a player's willingness to buy from online vendors (Amazon, Miniature Market, Cool Stuff Inc. etc. along that line.) without dipping into the secondary market or requiring the Conversion kits.

4 minutes ago, TasteTheRainbow said:

Yes. Clearly I’m the one on the high horse here.

Don't be so hard on yourself. I find you are usually on point. 😉

7 minutes ago, Hiemfire said:

Not entirely I think. While there are definitely ships that may be problematic to come by if a new player wishes to use them, there are also allot of inprint/new options available still that new players can get ahold of depending on LGS stock or a player's willingness to buy from online vendors (Amazon, Miniature Market, Cool Stuff Inc. etc. along that line.) without dipping into the secondary market or requiring the Conversion kits.

Not a very new customer friendly business strategy though. Out of print items put into rotation for a new edition game is asinine design to new players, pure and simple. And that's the beef for anyone willing to chew on it.

Just now, Cloaker said:

Not a very new customer friendly business strategy though. Out of print items put into rotation for a new edition game is asinine design to new players, pure and simple. And that's the beef for anyone willing to chew on it.

It is what it is. If anything it may help open up space for new stock as the old 1.0 ships get cleared out. All depends on how desirable and costly the older stuff is. I can understand the annoyance though.

I'm just really irked by it. Going to relax for a bit and put together some lists now with Sunny Bounder. Sigh.

2 minutes ago, Hiemfire said:

It is what it is. If anything it may help open up space for new stock as the old 1.0 ships get cleared out. All depends on how desirable and costly the older stuff is. I can understand the annoyance though.

2 minutes ago, Hiemfire said:

It is what it is. If anything it may help open up space for new stock as the old 1.0 ships get cleared out. All depends on how desirable and costly the older stuff is. I can understand the annoyance though.

Also, maybe it helps out FLGS still sitting on backstock. The vendors deserve support. A lot of shelf real estate is going to be needed in the future for the game. So there is some goodwill there needed. I'll take a glass half full approach, I guess.

33 minutes ago, Cloaker said:

You're one type of player. Not representative of all. If we lose the hyper exaggerated sense of self righteousness that we as gamers are sometimes privy to, we might be able to come to consensus on the fact that the issue exists for others beyond us.

6 hours ago, Cloaker said:

I'm frustrated for you, even if you aren't.

And maybe you shouldn't spend so much time being unhappy for those that aren't.

1 minute ago, Darth Meanie said:

And maybe you shouldn't spend so much time being unhappy for those that aren't.

Denial is not a river on Endor.

5 minutes ago, Cloaker said:

I'm just really irked by it. Going to relax for a bit and put together some lists now with Sunny Bounder. Sigh.

When her ability triggers it can be beautiful. If you're not on the receiving end.

You're complaining that they're allowing older ships into the competitive space at a faster pace than they can release them. This is a temporary logistical issue.

Either FFG restricts the competitive scene to only-re-released ships at the annoyance of veterans who have purchased conversion kits for their old collection, or they allow some of them to appease those invested to continuing purchasing and only upsetting the tiniest minority of players who think they now suddenly have to buy everything all at once of a seven year old game. The content is coming regardless.

I absolutely think they went with the right choice. These ships belong on the table ASAP so they can iterate on the balancing ASAP. I'd much rather that be the case than have them continue to arbitrarily restrict their finished materials from the competitive scene.

12 minutes ago, Arttemis said:

You're complaining that they're allowing older ships into the competitive space at a faster pace than they can release them. This is a temporary logistical issue.

Either FFG restricts the competitive scene to only-re-released ships at the annoyance of veterans who have purchased conversion kits for their old collection, or they allow some of them to appease those invested to continuing purchasing and only upsetting the tiniest minority of players who think they now suddenly have to buy everything all at once of a seven year old game. The content is coming regardless.

I absolutely think they went with the right choice. These ships belong on the table ASAP so they can iterate on the balancing ASAP. I'd much rather that be the case than have them continue to arbitrarily restrict their finished materials.

Short term compromise, hopefully. And still an inane business practice that damages new player potential. I'll keep fighting and helping new players get into it with my quick build party and scenarios and Thematic play. Epic has me SUPER excited. I can corral new players with that big time.

15 minutes ago, Hiemfire said:

When her ability triggers it can be beautiful. If you're not on the receiving end.

Sounds like my first date.

Just now, Cloaker said:

I'll keep fighting with my quick build party

Have you given @J1mBob's Quick Build stuff a look? You'll have to print them up your self, though they do have the ability and upgrade rules on the card itself.

Squad Builder with the Official Quickbuilds: http://infinitearenas.com/qbsb/#

Full decks divided up by faction: http://infinitearenas.com/quickBuildDeck/#

And you can DIY your own from any Squad Builder that can export to XWM format with this one: http://infinitearenas.com/xw2quick/#

His main page: http://www.infinitearenas.com/

Just now, Hiemfire said:

Have you given @J1mBob's Quick Build stuff a look? You'll have to print them up your self, though they do have the ability and upgrade rules on the card itself.

Squad Builder with the Official Quickbuilds: http://infinitearenas.com/qbsb/#

Full decks divided up by faction: http://infinitearenas.com/quickBuildDeck/#

And you can DIY your own from any Squad Builder that can export to XWM format with this one: http://infinitearenas.com/xw2quick/#

His main page: http://www.infinitearenas.com/

I got a buddy who loves objectives and we're probably all over this. The dungeonmaster in me loves these options to expand the game.

Well one thing I can say is that it seems that FFG is in conflict with itself. The main thing I see not being new player friendly is well conversion kits. Now conversion kits were not made for new players they were made to keep the 1st edition players from throwing up their arms and placing their collections on Ebay. However with this hyperspace format which is lets face it not for new players but instead for competitive players it has relegated new players to having to stick to basically the clone wars factions.

• You got 2 factions that don't exists without a conversion kit
• You got 3 factions in which the conversion kits are very expensive early access
• You got 2 factions that don't have as much list building options as the others

All three options are terrible for new players, but hyperspace is where the new players are supposed to go. Straight to the ultra competitive tournament scene where they can be crushed. I found it funny FFG made conversion kits, then immediately made a reason not to buy them (More reason to be opposed to card packs).

3 hours ago, Marinealver said:

However with this hyperspace format which is lets face it not for new players but instead for competitive players

I'm not sure how much I agree with this. As a brand new player (in total I've played less than 10 games), Hyperspace still seems like a great format. There's no way I'd want to go out and play any extended games at a shop or anything - far too many rules/ships I wouldn't have a hope of understanding - but even with the addition of 1.0-only ships into Hyperspace I'd still be tempted to go to a Hyperspace event once I'm ready because 1) I know that any list from my collection will be legal and 2) there are far fewer ships that I'll never have seen before. Also, the 1.0 Hyperspace ships are all iconic ships (interceptors, B-wings) and I'm less likely to get irritated at being pummeled into the ground by iconic ships from the films that I am from being beaten by more obscure ships I may never have heard of haha.

In general I think people on this forum have created a strange version of new players in their heads. The newest players are unlikely to go out to an event or FLGS and will just play casually with friends at home. I'd imagine, they wouldn't care about what is or isn't Hyperspace legal and would just use whatever they want from their collection (which, at least for now, is going to be fine in hyperspace). The more competitively-minded of us will then start looking at going to events, and it's these people that Hyperspace is for. New-ish players than want to play competitively; not new players from day 1. As a space for these new-to-competitive-play-but-not-that-new-to-the-game players, Hyperspace seems perfect. All your ships will be legal, and you might see some other ships to make games more interesting.

5 hours ago, J-Siz said:

I'm not sure how much I agree with this. As a brand new player (in total I've played less than 10 games), Hyperspace still seems like a great format. There's no way I'd want to go out and play any extended games at a shop or anything - far too many rules/ships I wouldn't have a hope of understanding - but even with the addition of 1.0-only ships into Hyperspace I'd still be tempted to go to a Hyperspace event once I'm ready because 1) I know that any list from my collection will be legal and 2) there are far fewer ships that I'll never have seen before. Also, the 1.0 Hyperspace ships are all iconic ships (interceptors, B-wings) and I'm less likely to get irritated at being pummeled into the ground by iconic ships from the films that I am from being beaten by more obscure ships I may never have heard of haha.

In general I think people on this forum have created a strange version of new players in their heads. The newest players are unlikely to go out to an event or FLGS and will just play casually with friends at home. I'd imagine, they wouldn't care about what is or isn't Hyperspace legal and would just use whatever they want from their collection (which, at least for now, is going to be fine in hyperspace). The more competitively-minded of us will then start looking at going to events, and it's these people that Hyperspace is for. New-ish players than want to play competitively; not new players from day 1. As a space for these new-to-competitive-play-but-not-that-new-to-the-game players, Hyperspace seems perfect. All your ships will be legal, and you might see some other ships to make games more interesting.

Great share of perspective. Welcome to the game, don't let hyper passionate guys like me scare you off. The players are tremendous, the events are fun, and the options in which to enjoy it are going to evolve. I'm just raging against the machine.

37 minutes ago, Cloaker said:

Welcome to the game, don't let hyper passionate guys like me scare you off.

If you wondered why this thread is 50% you (23/47 replies)... just throwing that in here

46 minutes ago, Cloaker said:

don't let hyper passionate guys like me scare you off.

Don't worry, no one here's put me off. I'm sure I'll make it out into the more competitive scene one day... although maybe I should learn how to not crash my TIE fighters into each other first...