I hope this is the right place of the forum for ask this.
What is the most Korean place in Rokugan?
We have Crab who are similar to Chinese, more than Japanese. We have Unicorn who looks more like Mongolian, especially with the Moto family, or at least they remind of the old Khan.
But what about Korea? Minor clan can be good too, but thinking and thinking I really can't have a clear idea about it. I was thinking about Phoenix, but I am not totally sure.
I told my players that each clan and its territory looks and feels like real world countries or places:
* The Lion, Scorpion and Phoenix are more of traditional feudal Japan.
* The Unicorn are very much Mongolians.
* The Crab with their wall are more like Chinese.
* The Dragon Clan with monks and monasteries is more like Tibet.
* The Crane clan with their art and emphasis on looks is more Korean.
* The Mantis is more like a cross between India, Thailand and Philippines.
i know its probably a bad to simplify clans and compare them to real world countries but I wanted to make my players more comfortable with the new setting.
17 minutes ago, Brzoskwin said:* The Mantis is more like a cross between India, Thailand and Philippines.
I always saw it more like Taiwan, but I like that idea
Also, yeah, I was thinking the same for the Crane, but also Phoenix makes me think about Korea
Edited by Victarion13You guys are thinking about Kpop way too much.
Koreans were much closer to mongols, and have a tradition of horseback riding and archery, which makes them similar to the Unicorns.
They are also much less poised than traditional Japanese.
Though this is a fantasy world, so I don't think we cannot attribute one clan to one culture that easily.
Edited by Avatar11127 minutes ago, Avatar111 said:You guys are thinking about Kpop way too much.
Koreans were much closer to mongols, and have a tradition of horseback riding and archery, which makes them similar to the Unicorns.
They are also much less poised than traditional Japanese.
Though this is a fantasy world, so I don't think we cannot attribute one clan to one culture that easily.
First I hate Kpop, lol
Anyway, many clans have something in particular from Asian Culture, I would like to know which one is more near to the Korean one. I know that all of them are very mixed, so just the nearest one. Not the Korean one, but the most near.
It still a fantasy game, and not an history game. But, well, Horseback and archery it's something you find in Kyudo. In that case I think they are more near to the Japanese style than mongols, just because probably Japanese copied from Korea also there.
1 hour ago, Avatar111 said:Koreans were much closer to mongols, and have a tradition of horseback riding and archery, which makes them similar to the Unicorns.
And they have Korean barbecue!! Something that would only ever be palatable by Unicorns in Rokugan
I have always seen Unicorn as a mix between Mongols and Koreans... more of the former, but still.
Edit: to be fair, the Mongol part is most specifically tied to the Moto, so there’s room for other influences among the Shinjo and Iuchi.
Edited by Franwax5 hours ago, Brzoskwin said:* The Lion, Scorpion and Phoenix are more of traditional feudal Japan.
The Lion is like how westerners think what traditional feudal Japan was. The Scorpion is like what traditional feudal Japan was in reality. The Phoenix is like how Japanese think what traditional feudal Japan was.
There's certainly been at least one card giving the Phoenix a Korean aesthetic:
For the Mantis, I noticed that they've got a fair amount of Okinawa about them in the RPG supplement.
39 minutes ago, Tonbo Karasu said:For the Mantis, I noticed that they've got a fair amount of Okinawa about them in the RPG supplement.
From my time in Okinawa, I'd agree.
I don't see much of Korea in Rokugan, but some of the Yobanjin gave wiffs of the Jurchen and occasionally you saw that played out with the Phoenix, so I would say the easiest place to see some Korean influence is the Phoenix, but it's very slight.
For the Mantis I always thought about Okinawa and Taiwan. But I came to live here in Shikoku, and I found out that here there are so many pirates story, and history. So usually in my stories I put that (check Murakami kaizoku or suigun)
The Yasuki and Mantis lands remind me of Vietnam, Cambodia, and Indonesia but I'm strictly talking more tropical and jungle like terrain. The mystical lands of the Kitsune and Naga I envision more like having a Thai aesthetic. I try to focus more on vegetation and geographic similarities rather than rw societal or cultural similarities... as alluded in previous comments, we're talking about a fantasy setting inspired by many cultures (predominantly Japanese) that at the same time isn't any of them. Looking for where Rokugan was inspired from in rl can be useful, but I'm leary of painting broad strokes when it comes to any ethnic similarities.
The northeastern gaijin, the Yobanjin have a surprising amount of Korean influence, at least in their self-determined naming.
Fun fact; in past editions, they and the Iswsa family (Phoenix family who got the Kami Shiba to serve them) share ancestry, to the point that they still 'trade'.
2 hours ago, Shadow070mni said:The northeastern gaijin, the Yobanjin have a surprising amount of Korean influence, at least in their self-determined naming.
Fun fact; in past editions, they and the Iswsa family (Phoenix family who got the Kami Shiba to serve them) share ancestry, to the point that they still 'trade'.
In this edition, the Kaito are descended from a conquered Yobanjin tribe and the Isawa, making it even closer.
I will go a bit off topic as well.
Anyway who can suggest me a good book about Korean ancient army/weapon/warfare and strategy?
16 hours ago, Victarion13 said:I will go a bit off topic as well.
Anyway who can suggest me a good book about Korean ancient army/weapon/warfare and strategy?
I assume you want something based on the Imjin war period?
If so Samuel Hawley's book is the best source if you can find it. Turnbull has two books on it, but I'm pretty sure the Osprey is just a reprint . I should probably confirm it though.
And much like Japan, the Tang and Ming dynasties cast a huge shadow over Korean society.
5 hours ago, Suzume Chikahisa said:I assume you want something based on the Imjin war period?
If so Samuel Hawley's book is the best source if you can find it. Turnbull has two books on it, but I'm pretty sure the Osprey is just a reprint . I should probably confirm it though.
And much like Japan, the Tang and Ming dynasties cast a huge shadow over Korean society.
Not only that, also about internal Korean war: like the period of the 3 countries and so on.
And also thank you very much for the link!
Not much I can recommend about the Korean Three Kingdoms Period. It's a bit earlier than my usual interests.
I checked the Turnbull Korea books and the Osprey one has a smaller page count so they are definitely different books, the Osprey probably just being a overview of the conflict.
Edited by Suzume ChikahisaOn 4/12/2019 at 5:04 AM, Brzoskwin said:I told my players that each clan and its territory looks and feels like real world countries or places:
* The Lion, Scorpion and Phoenix are more of traditional feudal Japan.
* The Unicorn are very much Mongolians.
* The Crab with their wall are more like Chinese.
* The Dragon Clan with monks and monasteries is more like Tibet.
* The Crane clan with their art and emphasis on looks is more Korean.
* The Mantis is more like a cross between India, Thailand and Philippines.
i know its probably a bad to simplify clans and compare them to real world countries but I wanted to make my players more comfortable with the new setting.
The Crane are the creators and exemplar of Rokugani culture, which is based on feudal japan more than any other real world culture, thus the Crane are Japanese. Although I don't know much about Korea, I have heard that the Scorpion are actually more Korean. I would also say that the crane don't have a particular emphasis on "looks" compared to the rest of the empire.. A Kakita duelist doesn't simply want to appear to be perfect, but they actually want to achieve perfection. In fact, appearing to be something that one is not would probably be considered dishonorable amongst the crane. On the other hand, The scorpion love to toy with people's perceptions, and they are known both for their deceivers and their actors. While the Crane have excellent craftsmen, the Scorpion are actually more focused on the finer arts, such as acting, poetry, brushwork, and painting.
It's probably also worth noting that the clans were created originally based more on "cool factor" with the more historic and societal points being tacked on and modified later, as the writers began to look into Asian culture(s) more. Also note that the clans do change over time.. especially the scorpion who, in old lore, got nearly wiped out and relocated to the burning sands for a time.. when they came back they had a more foreign feel to them. The Unicorn also change slightly when the Moto start taking a more active role in the clan/ empire. I've also noted the Phoenix aesthetic went through a shift where they go from, what I would describe as traditional Japanese, to something that I could only say looks kind of native American.. they start wearing a lot of feathers, beads and headbands. I'm not sure if there's supposed to be a story reason for that, or if AEG had just decided they wanted to differentiate them some.
Isawa Uona, Master of Air, started the Phoenix and feathers tradition in the very first set. IMHO it's a combination of "a Phoenix is a bird, so feathers are appropriate" (the Crane do the same sometimes) and "feathers are to do with flight, which is an Airy thing".
On 4/15/2019 at 11:25 AM, Black_Rabbit_Inle said:The Crane are the creators and exemplar of Rokugani culture, which is based on feudal japan more than any other real world culture, thus the Crane are Japanese. Although I don't know much about Korea, I have heard that the Scorpion are actually more Korean. I would also say that the crane don't have a particular emphasis on "looks" compared to the rest of the empire.. A Kakita duelist doesn't simply want to appear to be perfect, but they actually want to achieve perfection. In fact, appearing to be something that one is not would probably be considered dishonorable amongst the crane.
And yet, the Crane are, as a clan, the ones most likely to bleach and/or dye their hair, wear heavy makeup, and use clothing as more than just weather and identity protection...
The Crane: "If we don't look good, Bushido don't look good" (aggressive toss of perfectly dyed perfectly styled hair)
3 hours ago, AK_Aramis said:And yet, the Crane are, as a clan, the ones most likely to bleach and/or dye their hair, wear heavy makeup, and use clothing as more than just weather and identity protection...
I think the hair dying thing is because they're one of the few clans that has a "natural" hair color as one of their clan colors. In Rokugan, looking "super"-natural is cool. Looking unnatural isn't so cool. Even at that, there are at least a few lion that run around with yellow or brown hair.. I imagine that there are some Ainu-like pockets of Rokugani that make these colors seem "natural" while still making them rare and eye-catching (but not exotic, because that would be bad).
While @GrimmSqueeker properly points out the more practical application of crane aesthetics, I would also point out that the scorpion use their clothing, make-up, and masks for both aesthetic and utilitarian purposes.
Like I said, I don't really know Korean culture and I'm not exactly sure what was meant by "their art and emphasis on looks is more Korean". The Scorpion, more than any other clan, specialize in the use of illusions and disguises.. and while Bayushi Kachiko would never use either of those things, do you think the fact that her Kimono seems to sleep off of her shoulder an awful lot is an accident.. or maybe she just can't afford a kimono that fits? While the crane care enough about aesthetics that they always want to look proper, the scorpion care about it enough to realize that sometimes looking their improper is more useful. Bayushi Kachiko and Doji Hotaru both know how to look splendid, but only Kachiko also knows how to look "trashy", or how to look dangerous, or how to look mysterious.. etc. This is because Hotaru only wants to look splendid because she is splendid, while Kachiko wants to look however she needs to look in order to fulfill her mission. So I'm not sure whether the implication was that Koreans always want things to look good and beautiful, to the point that they don't really think about how to achieve any other effect (which would be the case with the crane.) OR is the implication that Koreans know and care about aesthetics to such a degree that they know the best way to achieve whatever effect they are going for at the time, which would make the scorpion seem like a better fit.
Also, a scorpions mask doesn't hide their identity (well.. maybe..) but it also has the practical application of reminding people about the scorpion clan's role in Rokugan, and gives them another item to "accessorize" that most clans don't have access to, so it serves multiple purposes.
17 minutes ago, Black_Rabbit_Inle said:Like I said, I don't really know Korean culture and I'm not exactly sure what was meant by "their art and emphasis on looks is more Korean". The Scorpion, more than any other clan, specialize in the use of illusions and disguises.. and while Bayushi Kachiko would never use either of those things, do you think the fact that her Kimono seems to sleep off of her shoulder an awful lot is an accident.. or maybe she just can't afford a kimono that fits? While the crane care enough about aesthetics that they always want to look proper, the scorpion care about it enough to realize that sometimes looking their improper is more useful. Bayushi Kachiko and Doji Hotaru both know how to look splendid, but only Kachiko also knows how to look "trashy", or how to look dangerous, or how to look mysterious.. etc. This is because Hotaru only wants to look splendid because she is splendid, while Kachiko wants to look however she needs to look in order to fulfill her mission. So I'm not sure whether the implication was that Koreans always want things to look good and beautiful, to the point that they don't really think about how to achieve any other effect (which would be the case with the crane.) OR is the implication that Koreans know and care about aesthetics to such a degree that they know the best way to achieve whatever effect they are going for at the time, which would make the scorpion seem like a better fit.
I lived in Korea and now I am living in Japan. And from this description I would say: "yes, Crane are very Korean".
There is a big culture point, both in Korea and Japan, and not only, about "what you see is more important than anything else", so how you look (or how something look), the first impression, is the priority. However, for my experience, in these days Korean people put more emphasis on this concept than Japanese people. Looks (from make up to clothes) is much more important than in other countries. You need to be and show beauty. All what I am saying is what I felt with my experience.
But Rokugan is more fantasy and also based on "medieval" fiction world: were the Korean the same as now? I really don't know.
From my limited experience with Korean traditional lore and culture (having lived there two years and being half-Korean), it seems like Koreans pride themselves on their culture historically valuing scholarship, warmth/love/friendliness, simplicity, and generosity more than the Japanese. I think they see the Japanese as being more calculating and ruthless by comparison, though there's obviously an element of bias here-- Korean history has its own share of political intrigue. I haven't noticed an especially strong emphasis on visual arts, at least any more so than any other culture, though they seem to have a relatively heightened appreciation for nature, and music has some traditional significance. While Koreans have some military accomplishments they're proud of (e.g., turtle boats), I think they see themselves as historically being on the defensive from invaders.
So I have no idea what Rokugani clan/group would most closely align with idealized Korean traditional culture and values. Maybe Dragon?