This has come up for debate a bit locally and I'm not sure the FAQ on the stickied thread clarifies it enough. Hoping to get some official clarification on this.

When a loose cargo/spare parts is dropped onto a stationary ship, does the ship immediately gain the stress token and have to roll for damage, or does that occur when the ship next moves through the debris template?

From the stickied thread:

Quote

Posted October 4, 2018

Q: If the Loose Cargo from Rigged Cargo Chute [Illicit] overlaps another ship, what happens?

A: It is placed underneath the ship, and the ship overlaps it.

To my eye, if you have a Loose Cargo or Spare Parts token dropped onto you, you do not suffer any of penalties that would be triggered by moving over a debris cloud. That effect is, as in the highlighted text, linked to when the overlap occurs, which for the Debris Cloud is when the ship is executing a maneuver or moving by other means.

The rule for this is ambiguous at best, and I'm not sure which way I fall.

i can tell you however that the UK Systems this weekend have sent out a number of rule clarifications that will be used, one of them is that dropping a Loose Cargo onto a ship immediately triggers the effects (so stress and rolling for damage).

12 minutes ago, xwingMinty said:

The rule for this is ambiguous at best, and I'm not sure which way I fall.

i can tell you however that the UK Systems this weekend have sent out a number of rule clarifications that will be used, one of them is that dropping a Loose Cargo onto a ship immediately triggers the effects (so stress and rolling for damage).

I am struggling to see what is ambiguous about the following text:

"Before a ship moves, if it is at range 0 of an obstacle, it does not suffer the effects of that obstacle unless it moves through or overlaps that obstacle again"

The ship is overlapping the dropped debris cloud, however all the consequences linked to debris clouds are tied into moving or executing a maneuver. Therefore, while the ship is not moving it should not receive any stress or roll for a critical.

3 hours ago, shinbo said:

Q: If the Loose Cargo from Rigged Cargo Chute [Illicit] overlaps another ship, what happens?

A: It is placed underneath the ship, and the ship overlaps it.

3 minutes ago, AceDogbert said:

" Before a ship moves, if it is at range 0 of an obstacle, it does not suffer the effects of that obstacle unless it moves through or overlaps that obstacle again "

if a ship gets a cargo chute or spare parts dropped on it, it overlaps and suffers the affects. It won't suffer them again until it moves through or overlaps it a second time.

4 minutes ago, PanchoX1 said:

if a ship gets a cargo chute or spare parts dropped on it, it overlaps and suffers the affects. It won't suffer them again until it moves through or overlaps it a second time.

What are the effects of being at range 0 of a debris cloud while not moving or executing a maneuver?

11 minutes ago, AceDogbert said:

I am struggling to see what is ambiguous about the following text:

"Before a ship moves, if it is at range 0 of an obstacle, it does not suffer the effects of that obstacle unless it moves through or overlaps that obstacle again"

The ship is overlapping the dropped debris cloud, however all the consequences linked to debris clouds are tied into moving or executing a maneuver. Therefore, while the ship is not moving it should not receive any stress or roll for a critical.

Hey like I said I'm not picking a side, just passing on the information from an FFG official tournament; but clearly if people are still asking the question then there is ambiguity.

2 minutes ago, PanchoX1 said:

10 minutes ago, AceDogbert said:

" Before a ship moves, if it is at range 0 of an obstacle, it does not suffer the effects of that obstacle unless it moves through or overlaps that obstacle again "

if a ship gets a cargo chute or spare parts dropped on it, it overlaps and suffers the affects. It won't suffer them again until it moves through or overlaps it a second time.

That's all fine and good. I agree that the ship suffers the effects of overlapping the debris... which RAW is absolutely nothing unless it moves through it. The first two lines of highlighted text clearly outline that the check happens during a 'move' step. The phrase 'While a ship is moving' is a condition here.

My questions here for FFG is if they can confirm if the overlap check is suppose to now happen immediately when the debris appears below a stationary ship, because as AceDogbert points out there isn't a step to check for debris while a ship isn't moving.

this is basically the biggest disappointment from the new RR for me. yeah, the ship overlaps the obstacle, but they didn't fix the wording for obstacles. you still have to move and overlap to suffer the effects. if you aren't supposed to suffer the effects, at least they could have clarified that. they just included this !*#(\£%

Q: If the Loose Cargo from Rigged Cargo Chute [illicit] overlaps another ship, what happens?
A: It is placed underneath the ship, and the ship overlaps it.

27 minutes ago, shinbo said:

That's all fine and good. I agree that the ship suffers the effects of overlapping the debris... which RAW is absolutely nothing unless it moves through it. The first two lines of highlighted text clearly outline that the check happens during a 'move' step. The phrase 'While a ship is moving' is a condition here.

My questions here for FFG is if they can confirm if the overlap check is suppose to now happen immediately when the debris appears below a stationary ship, because as AceDogbert points out there isn't a step to check for debris while a ship isn't moving.

you can't ask FFG questions here. they do not post, except for in their pinned post. there is no way for us to know if anyone from FFG or anyone even remotely related to the developers of this game even reads this forum. if you have questions for FFG, please post them here:
https://www.fantasyflightgames.com/en/more/contact/

yup, that's right, it's just us community members here.

Yeah this kind of sloppy rules writing is disappointing... and the vague FAQ answer is frustrating. Just thought we should clarify it sooner than later or risk another Talon Roll debacle at a major event. Losing a match because a rule wasn't clear enough to a TO is the kind of thing that kills people's trust in a game's organised play.

Have sent them an email, thanks for the link.

The issue with the ruling is it explicitly says "the ship overlaps it", but the rules for overlap specify that overlapping happens "while moving".

Either it gives stress or it doesn't but both options involve kinda twisting the exact wording of the rules.

4 hours ago, svelok said:

The issue with the ruling is it explicitly says "the ship overlaps it", but the rules for overlap s  pecify that overlapping happens "while moving".

Either it gives stress or it doesn't but both options involve kinda twisting the exact wording of the rules.

I reckon the actual debris overlapping occurs instantly and that is beyond dispute. The issue here is at which step does the game check for an overlap effect to occur (stress and roll for damage). Rules as currently written, overlap checks are done during a move. A stationary ship is not moving. If FFG would simply state that an instant overlap effect check happens the moment the overlap occurs, we're Gucci.

I am personally in the camp of immediate effect as that seems to be the spirit of how the card is meant to be since 1.0 and how 90% of people have been playing it so far I think. Not every TO might see eye to eye on this though, so when going to your local events you should probably check with TO's opinion before you start playing if you intend to use this mechanic.

to be precise, it's not clear whether you should suffer the effects of overlapping an obstacle if you're not moving while overlapping that obstacle.

or rather, there is no clear indication that you do suffer the effects, but there is also nothing stating you don't suffer the effects. and with the god awful "clarification" that's now a part of the rules reference, a lot of people believe that you should suffer the effects.

since it's only good practice to do what the rules tell us to do, RAW, you still don't suffer the effects.

it could be worth mentioning, i'm firmly in the camp that think the intention is for you to suffer the effects of getting a bunch of debris dumped on you during an intense dog fight in space immediately.

I'll admit to leaning the opposite direction; if FFG's intention were for the effects of overlapping obstacles to occur at any point, they'd have been able to save themselves an awful lot of writing by just saying "Whenever a ship overlaps an obstacle, one of the following effects happens based on the type of obstacle:". If they were feeling nice, they'd then specify that a ship can only be effected by the same obstacle once per round (in case of tractor beams or other forced move shenanigans).

This only further makes the case that it'd be great if FFG actually came into these threads to deliver clarifications directly (though I can understand why they may be reticent to do so).

It'd be totally fine with me if FFG intended the debris not to work immediately. It would just mean that they are used slightly differently.

You'd probably just drop them as a seventh obstacle in your trick shot/han/grappling strut list rather than treat them as the stress bombs of 1.0.

4 hours ago, meffo said:

since  it's  only good practice to do what the rules tell  us to do, RAW, you still don't suffer the effects.

Overlapping only occurs while moving. So, if the ruling says you overlap the debris, then you must be considered to be moving.

Does that make sense? No, not particularly, neither answer does the way they've written the rules.

1 hour ago, svelok said:

Overlapping only occurs while moving. So, if the ruling says you overlap the debris, then you must be considered to be moving.

Does that make sense? No, not particularly, neither answer does the way they've written the rules.

good point. the part about obstacles further reinforces that you need to be moving to suffer the effects of them.

1 hour ago, svelok said:

Overlapping only occurs  while moving  . So, if the ruling sa  ys you overlap the debris, then you must be considered to be moving.

Does that make sense? No, not particularly, neither ans  wer does the way they've written the rules.

This take comes the closest to making sense for me. All this really needs is a simple addition to the MOVE section to clarify things.

MOVE: A ship moves when it executes a maneuver, changes position using a template (such as barrel rolling or boosting), or if an obstacle appears under its position.

The current move description does not include the current situation is all.

13 minutes ago, meffo said:

good point. the part about obstacles further reinforces that you need to be moving to suffer the effects of them.

You can't overlap an obstacle unless you're moving. The rules say you overlap the obstacle. QED: both answers require twisting the rules, neither is strictly straightforward or pure RAW.

22 minutes ago, shinbo said:

MOVE: A ship moves when it executes a maneuver, changes position using a template (such as barrel rolling or boosting), or if an obstacle appears under its position.

The current move description does not include the current situation is all.

I like that, if you have to pick up your ship to place something underneath the ship then it is considered to have moved. I'm sure that won't have any unintended undesirable results. 😁

Consider this particular scenario though: An academy pilot moves and overlaps an obstacle (and rolls for damage etc), then later in the same activation phase gets a debris cloud dropped under it by Han as well.

If we consider this ship to have 'moved' during this debris dropping action, then it should suffer the effects of the first obstacle once again, if we follow overlap RAW.

Quote

While a ship executes a maneuver or otherwise moves, it overlaps an object if the ship’s final position would physically be on top of an object.

This interpretation of the rules demands a double trigger on the first obstacle if we agree that a new 'move' has occurred whilst the academy pilot sits on it.

That's an interesting scenario. Are you able to have obstacles overlapping obstacles?

20 minutes ago, AceDogbert said:

That's an interesting scenario. Are you able to have obstacles overlapping obstacles?

Yes. You can drop them where you want, and nothing prevents that being on another obstacle.

Seems to me this is only a conversation because of the desire that if you hit a ship with a dropped token you've "earned" the possibility of a bad outcome for the ship hit when that might not be the case if the ship hit with the token only processes the effect of an obstacle during moving.

The ruling from the official thread is quite sloppy and it seems done in an impatient and disrespectful manner and lazy manner. I admonish those responsible for providing those official rulings to take the time to answer such questions properly.