Or should you run vet gunner?

Or woffle and sinker?

Maybe. Probably not. Yes. And likely no.

They can definitely spike some damage on an initial attack assuming dice swing average or better for you. Vet gunner probably doesn't trigger all that often. Definitely run wolffe. He's a beast. Sinker feels like a bit of a points trap at his cost and I'd look at Jag instead.

7 minutes ago, viedit said:

Maybe. Probably not. Yes. And likely no.

They can definitely spike some damage on an initial attack assuming dice swing average or better for you. Vet gunner probably doesn't trigger all that often. Definitely run wolffe. He's a beast. Sinker feels like a bit of a points trap at his cost and I'd look at Jag instead.

I think Sinker will get a chance to shine once the N1 comes out. If you could fit him with a trio of Dedicated Arcs? That’s scary. Maybe one 104th and a quartet of GST Torrents?

Like Howlrunner, his ability is worth more the more ships you have.

I think you are supposed to run him with a bunch of torrents but the points and initiative just feel bad vs the field.

7th fleet gets better the more mods you can apply to that extra dice. I like it when it's juicing a jedi ace who has a lock and force charges to spend. Less so when it's just adding to a ship that only has a focus.

Also it combos nicely with R2 astromech since you can recharge your shields on the same turn you recharge the gunner and still remove both disarm tokens at the end of the turn.

Hummm. That's a thought. Too bad all of those things are expensive af.

2 arcs with 7th and jedi ace?

Hmm. YASB 2.0 bug report?

I can't seem to put Dedicated on Wolffe?

And the 7B mods are not updating stats...

6 minutes ago, Blail Blerg said:

Hmm. YASB 2.0 bug report?

I can't seem to put Dedicated on Wolffe?

And the 7B mods are not updating stats...

Dedicated can't be on uniques.

Comboing it with R2 Astro has seemed solid to me, but I suspect it's throwing too many points at them.

4 minutes ago, AlexW said:

Dedicated can't be on uniques.

Dedicated is interesting, too bad it’s terrible at current due to the generic only restriction, and the fact that elite generics on the Torrent and Arc are such huge point jumps for a single initiative that they are never worth it. It’s, effectively, an 7-8 point upgrade. Contrast with Heroic and…

I haven't really been digging 7th Fleet Gunner on my ARC-170s. It isn't bad per se but if you don't make it count it often ends up an expensive one off deal. I typically don't really have turns where I don't shoot at something with an ARC so don't want the weapons disabled to re-charge.

8 minutes ago, thespaceinvader said:

Comboing it with R2 Astro has seemed solid to me, but I suspect it's throwing too many points at them.

That's really my issue. You are tossing 9 points onto something for an extra dice once. Twice if you take a turn off to reload. And hope you aren't initiative killed before you get to use it again.

You could argue there's more utility in a 49 point trick shot i3 vet than a 51 point i2 104th with the gunner. Arcs can be one-rounded and easily killed in 2. And at i2 and a red BR they aren't going to be doing a lot of fancy moves to avoid firing arcs while easily being dodged out of their own. You are tossing a lot of points on the board for an extra red dice.

Being init killed isn't a HUGE issue with 7FG, because it qworks at the highest init you have on the board, so you pair them with Anakin or Obi Wan, or someone with Heightened Perception.

But I suspect dropping both elements and just goign for Dedicated generics, or Jag and Sinker, might be better.

I almost never get a second shot out of it.

5 minutes ago, thespaceinvader said:

Being init killed isn't a HUGE issue with 7FG, because it qworks at the highest init you have on the board, so you pair them with Anakin or Obi Wan, or someone with Heightened Perception.

But I suspect dropping both elements and just goign for Dedicated generics, or Jag and Sinker, might be better.

Outside of Wolffe and Jag I'm not convinced you put many points into an Arc. It just becomes a point sink.

Played the Wolfpack* yesterday. Only got one game in so far but I haven’t been this excited to try out a list in a long time.

Game went well but I won’t overanalyze from one data point.

The idea is not to pop 7th Fleet too early. Definitely if something is about to get Initiative killed or you have an amazing shot (I.e., catching an ace in a couple of arcs early), go for it. But if you save it for the rear arc as you disengage you can actually push damage through. If they’re smart they won’t chase you and you can regen the charge. If they do chase you, you’ve probably done enough damage by that point to get ahead on the damage race and punish them for it.

* Wolffe w/ Trickshot

104th w/ Cody

2x 104th w/ 7th Fleet

19 minutes ago, viedit said:

Outside of Wolffe and Jag I'm not convinced you put many points into an Arc. It just becomes a point sink.

Sinker is well worthwhile, he's a massive force multiplier, but you need to bring a lot of guns with him.Odd ball is a little sad, especially with how stupidly price his obvious compatriot droid is.

It's so very expensive, you have to work hard to get the value from it. At which point, it feels very much like you're working too hard, which never averages out well.

Still, I'm game.

2 different things I'm trying, both involving force coord. 2x double mod 7FG jousts like an absolute ton of bricks, but it's a major risk if one of the ARCs can be alpha'd before firing. So I need to be a bit cute with it all....

After that 1st engage, I aim to pull at least one of the ARCs through the 2nd round of fire and disengage, recharging for the accompanying Jedi. If both ARCs can pull through and recharge, whatever's left in the other squad has to be worried.

The whole thing needs a lot of set up, costs a lot of points, and has exploitable weak points. But it's a fun game.

Having to take the disarm in the system phase is a key bit of control on the whole thing. Becomes quite risky.

I've not considered running 1 7FG. Feels like an all or nothing choice to me.

Edit. For the actual OP content....

VTG. Nope.

Wolffe and Sinker with 7FG, Ahsoka and Sync Console all round, squashes things that don't arc dodge it quite, quite flat .

I've been playing Sinker w/Cody, 104th, ad 4x Gold Torrents. So far, it's been doing well. Even when I make stupid mistakes flying it.

I played a few games with 7th Fleet Gunner, to discover that 9 points for a one-off red dice is a bad deal (because you rarely get a chance to reload it - having a rear arc means you often want to take that opportunity to shoot, and reloading is not on the cards.

I mean, 9 points? Seriously? For a one time red dice boost? Put it on three arcs and instead you could have easily added a Gold Squadron Trooper, which has a consistent gun, blocks and generally gets in the way.

18 minutes ago, Antipodean Ork said:

I played a few games with 7th Fleet Gunner, to discover that 9 points for a one-off red dice is a bad deal (because you rarely get a chance to reload it - having a rear arc means you often want to take that opportunity to shoot, and reloading is not on the cards.

This is totally where my feeling lies on it. But I do think you can get that recharge. If you're going to use 7FG, then you have to, or it definitely is wasted points.

Kind of why I feel 2 is the way to go. 3 copies and, like you say, another ship is easy. 1 copy, it's not adding a lot, the threat of it recharging will means it likely won't.

2 means you should get a recharge. If you alter your overall flight plan to play into it. Needs clear routes to disengage and enough room to create plan B's. Which is restrictive in itself.

You can tag team your damaged carriers and potentially open up a world of use for a 3rd ship.

Using the injured ship for blocking and setting up a teammate also works, although taking a very heavy gamble on the disarm.

But, to agree a bit more, that much work, cost and risk is going to make it highly dubious to most people.

In combo with Plo Kloon, might work....

13 minutes ago, Antipodean Ork said:

In combo with Plo Kloon, might work....

Yeah, it's a thing, Plo Bros

I've not tried that yet. His force pool over those 1st 2/3 turns of shooting concerns me.

Getting the mods on 7FG, with a Jedi that can meaningfully contribute, is where I'm at right now. Not sure it's possible to get all the angles covered but there are some interesting directions to go in.

44 minutes ago, Antipodean Ork said:

In combo with Plo Kloon, might work....

Even without a config, I feel like Jedi are just a tad too expensive to play a pure support role. But it’s certainly something to try!

I honestly don’t think 7th Fleet is that overpriced, if at all. Ffg has had a hard time pricing extra red dice appropriately. This is the first time I feel like it’s an actual conversation, and that it requires just enough thought and fancy flying to not be an auto-include (or completely priced out of play).

I tried it, it was ok. Threw R2 on Plo.

Trouble is that, at 9 points, it isn’t a great investment on Arcs. They get 4 dice at range 1 anyhow. And to get the most of it, you want rerolls. So you add Sinker, and all of a sudden you’re topping off at 3 ships, one which is a support/ secondary gun.