2 hours ago, TauntaunScout said:So what? I'm sure there's more than 45 royal guards and scout troopers too. Not the issue. They aren't corps and neither should these.
What I'm saying is that there are likely something like 3 Billion veteran(shore) troopers in the Imperial Army, on the absolute low end.
You're freaking out because you might see 45 of them in one place (and even then you probably won't ever see that.)
That's .000000015% of the total. I'm honestly very confused by your outrage.
2 hours ago, TauntaunScout said:
No more or less so that Scouts and several other units. So it doesn't seem to matter in FFG's book, they just do whatever. This would have made a great special forces choice but I just don't see it as a thing to fill required minimum army slots around when so many other needful things are missing from the minis line. This opens up possibilities for ONE theme, which we could already do. Navy Troopers or locally hired goons would have opened up a new can of artistic worms for Imperials in Legion.
At least it wasn't Sandtroopers... @DewbackScout must be stopped.
We understand. You would like Navy Troopers as a corps unit. We got it...about three reveals back. We all have our favorite unit that we look forward to and hope will be released. I think there's a wishlist thread someone started specifically for that purpose. Please don't hijack every announcement thread saying how you would have rather had "x". These threads are for discussing what the unit is and what it can do, not what other unit we think it should have been.
In direct response to your preference that these be Special Forces units: I really like that FFG made these corps units. It will allow me to have a decent primary weapon with my Corps. I see a lot of opportunity here, and given the existing options available in Legion, this seems like the perfect step up from Stormtroopers, both thematically and in-game.
Edit: Speaking of "artistic cans of worms": Shoretroopers will allow me and my fellow Imperial players to expand our painting beyond white and black!
Edited by stackeffectAren't shoretroopers regular (veteran) stormtroopers rotating through the shoretrooper asignmend? This doesn't sound like special forces.
2 minutes ago, LennoxPoodle said:Aren't shoretroopers regular (veteran) stormtroopers rotating through the shoretrooper asignmend? This doesn't sound like special forces.
Yes, I believe that's correct.
So how much do you think the T-21B trooper will cost? Will it be more or less than the 24 point DLT?
I could see it being like 26 points, which could give you a full 6-man squad of 91 points.
19 minutes ago, manoftomorrow010 said:So how much do you think the T-21B trooper will cost? Will it be more or less than the 24 point DLT?
I could see it being like 26 points, which could give you a full 6-man squad of 91 points.
My guess is 24 points.
If the basic shore model is 13 points, and the t21 on the dewback (which has 4 white, critical 2) I assume the t21b to be a point higher if it was an upgrade for a dewback. It Increases two white to black, but reduces critical 2 to one. I would say that is maybe 1 point difference? So, 11 points for the t21b gun, and 13 for the shore model, you get 24 points.
This is just a cursory guess, my math could be way off.
3 hours ago, TauntaunScout said:
No more or less so that Scouts and several other units. So it doesn't seem to matter in FFG's book, they just do whatever. This would have made a great special forces choice but I just don't see it as a thing to fill required minimum army slots around when so many other needful things are missing from the minis line. This opens up possibilities for ONE theme, which we could already do. Navy Troopers or locally hired goons would have opened up a new can of artistic worms for Imperials in Legion.
At least it wasn't Sandtroopers... @DewbackScout must be stopped.
Same could be said about Snowtroopers, but those are corps units. If you look at the description, Shore Troopers are regulars Stormtroopers trained for amphibious combat with a more specialise armor. Snowtroopers are regulars Stormtroopers trained for combat in difficult conditions with a more specialise armor. How is it really different? Snowtroopers also opens up the possibility for only one theme, heck and didn't even buy one because of that.
As far as variety goes, I welcome the Shoretroopers with big open's arm! Finally a unit with another color scheme than Black and White!
For the Navy Troopers, I'm pretty sure we'll get them soon enough, probably as Mud Troopers though. They pretty much finished their focus on Rogue One, now I expect them to move to Solo. Mud Troopers will be the cheap imperial core unit.
And finally, I will speak only for myself here, but I'm really really really glad that they made the Shoretroopers now instead of some random locally hired goons... but even if they would have decided to go this way instead, I would have just not buy them and move on. Just like I will probably not buy the Dewback rider simply because it doesn't fit the theme of my army or that I didn't buy Palpatine because I don't personnally think he has a place in a skirmish game.
2 hours ago, Jake the Hutt said:Why not? Why shouldn't they be. They'e background suggests that they're used to defend coastal areas, aquatic worlds and Imperial facilities. It would make sense that battles in these areas would include as many or more of them than basic Storm Trooprs. It doesn't matter if theyre rarer than Storm Troopers at all.
Then scouts and royal guards and wookies and commandos and pathfinders should be corps too. It's not the end of the world but I don't feel obligated to write a blank check to game producers and cede any sort of internal consistency.
Edited by TauntaunScout2 hours ago, Zrob314 said:What I'm saying is that there are likely something like 3 Billion veteran(shore) troopers in the Imperial Army, on the absolute low end.
You're freaking out because you might see 45 of them in one place (and even then you probably won't ever see that.)
That's .000000015% of the total. I'm honestly very confused by your outrage.
By that logic wookies and scouts would be corps. I'm not outraged I just think it's a weird choice. But there is no middle ground in SW fandom.
35 minutes ago, Red Castle said:Snowtroopers also opens up the possibility for only one theme, heck and didn't even buy one because of that.
A theme we wouldn't have had otherwise. We already had Scarif via stormtroopers, Krennic and Deathtroopers, which were present there and create a playable collection between them. Salt and pepper with specialists and vehicles as desired. Shoretroopers as special forces wouldn't have hurt this any.
35 minutes ago, Red Castle said:As far as variety goes, I welcome the Shoretroopers with big open's arm! Finally a unit with another color scheme than Black and White!
Well there's red...
35 minutes ago, Red Castle said:For the Navy Troopers, I'm pretty sure we'll get them soon enough, probably as Mud Troopers though.
They're two different things from different eras of film. Will we get Poe as Biggs and 8D8 as C-3PO too?
35 minutes ago, Red Castle said:They pretty much finished their focus on Rogue One, now I expect them to move to Solo. Mud Troopers will be the cheap imperial core unit.
Well they didn't nearly finish ESB or ROTJ before moving onto R1 so that's not how they do stuff. They keep doing these weird half-baked themes then coming back to them later.
35 minutes ago, Red Castle said:And finally, I will speak only for myself here, but I'm really really really glad that they made the Shoretroopers now instead of some random locally hired goons... but even if they would have decided to go this way instead, I would have just not buy them and move on.
I'm not saying they sholdn'tm ake them but coveted compulsory slots should be doled out with a bit more care for modelling themes, since FFG seems to make so darn few of them.
35 minutes ago, Red Castle said:I didn't buy Palpatine because I don't personnally think he has a place in a skirmish game.
He does not, and that's why all discussions of what makes sense or not in Legion are kind of pointless! But no one's going to accuse you of freaking out about Palpatine they way they do with this shoretrooper thing. For some reason everyone thinks if I'm non-plussed by a release and say why, I must be fuming and outraged, which is silly.
1 minute ago, TauntaunScout said:Will we get Poe as Biggs
Do not insult Biggs's mustache like that
2 minutes ago, TauntaunScout said:They're two different things from different eras of film. Will we get Poe as Biggs and 8D8 as C-3PO too?
Well, they are similar in being somewhat armored troopers without a faceplate 😉
But what do you mean by different eras of film? Sure, Solo and ANH have decades between them production wise, but in universe they a both set in the era of the empire.
While I can see the case for Shore Troopers being Special Forces and I personally *do* want to see Navy Troopers, I think the real reason we got them this way is that FFG was trying to make something analogous to the Rebel Vets because they like to keep upgrade releases relatively consistent between the two factions. That service to the players does come at a cost; in this case, unit release flexibility.
Navy Troopers will make a good corps unit but they really do not scream "specially trained" corps unit to me. They seem like a cheaper, filler unit with less defensive and offensive capabilities but maybe some odd tech-y twist. Pair their release with Saw's Partisans as a Rebel corps release and you could easily cross pollinate the factions with cheap units and equal upgrade distribution.
51 minutes ago, TauntaunScout said:By that logic wookies and scouts would be corps. I'm not outraged I just think it's a weird choice. But there is no middle ground in SW fandom.
Only the star wars fans deal in absolutes
Commando and Pathfinding roles are literally special forces (commando missions being some of the first ever in modern military history) and the units they're representing on film were conducting special operations with unconventional or "special" tactics. While certainly more elite, I do not think Shoretroopers necessarily undertake "special" operations - they operate like normal infantry, but with slightly more specific gear and better training and experience. Special Forces doesn't necessarily have anything to do with rarity in total, it's using non-standard tactics to conduct low profile, fast actions to achieve goals a conventional force cannot, but can still work in conjunction with a conventional operation.
There could be 10 or 100 times as many Scout Troopers as Shoretroopers, but what Scouts do in your Legion army is specops - stealth, sabotage, long-range engagements. When in doubt - what do we see Shoretroopers doing with our eyes? They garrison a base and defend it. Seems pretty conventional to me.
27 minutes ago, FSD said:While I can see the case for Shore Troopers being Special Forces and I personally *do* want to see Navy Troopers, I think the real reason we got them this way is that FFG was trying to make something analogous to the Rebel Vets because they like to keep upgrade releases relatively consistent between the two factions. That service to the players does come at a cost; in this case, unit release flexibility.
Navy Troopers will make a good corps unit but they really do not scream "specially trained" corps unit to me. They seem like a cheaper, filler unit with less defensive and offensive capabilities but maybe some odd tech-y twist. Pair their release with Saw's Partisans as a Rebel corps release and you could easily cross pollinate the factions with cheap units and equal upgrade distribution.
Sadly that is one of the problems. The need to release very similar units for both factions really holds FFg back on diverging faction identity. Why not give the rebels more characters and the empire more heavy stuff for example?
1 hour ago, TauntaunScout said:By that logic wookies and scouts would be corps. I'm not outraged I just think it's a weird choice. But there is no middle ground in SW fandom.
You're basing "special forces" on how many their are, I'm going with the idea that it's training/skill.
I'm also looking at special forces as not just "green beret" but "specialized unit in the game broken up so that we are required to have variety within each army."
Wookies are special forces because they are a 3-4 model melee focused unit. Not because they are a SEAL Team. Scout Troopers are a 2-5 unit squad. Shore Troopers (corps) are a 4-6 model squad....just like all of the other Corps units.
I mean the breakdowns could just as easily be "Big Squads (3-6), Small Squads (0-3), Small Crews (0-3), Large Crews (0-2), Assistants (0-2), Bosses (0-2)" and then the made up and speculated rarity of a constantly shifting made up and speculated universe wouldn't matter at all.
And you're the one who is coming in here to instantly announce "Thanks, I hate it. I want my Hoth officer." Also to be honest it sounds like your problem is that shoretroopes are even being made, not that you think they are misclassified. So maybe tkae youre lament for the lack of a middle ground elsewhere because you're the one who refuses to budge on any of his opinions ever.
I love how even after a unit is announced we continue to dissect the minutia of military history and nomenclature to determine if it was done in the proper way.
This discussion is basically a re-hash of the 'Imperial corps speculation' thread
@TauntaunScout is entitled to his opinions, just as you are entitled to yours. He has a very specific relationship to the game and lore, but that doesn't make his enjoyment of it less valid.
I wouldn't be surprised if Shoretroopers were picked for this release because FFG was listening to the fans last summer when designing it. They seem to be a popular request, at the very least.
Just because he's entitled to his opinion doesn't mean I can't call him weird on the internet! Especially if he's going to dare to claim FFG is wrong !
(Which legit, I think giving the training slot to navy troopers, gunners or mud troopers would have been "wrong", an objectively incorrect interpretation based on language facts and the precedent set by the game. What we're arguing now here is the subjective interpretation of what exactly Tauntaun Scout thinks "Special Forces" are, and if we can teach an old dog new tricks)
2 minutes ago, frankelee said:I wouldn't be surprised if Shoretroopers were picked for this release because FFG was listening to the fans last summer when designing it. They seem to be a popular request, at the very least.
And Rogue One is the third-highest grossing Star Wars movie ever. It's a very popular piece of the film canon.
(Now we can argue about inflation-adjusted earnings!)
I'm stoked for Shoretroopers, they look cool and despite their name they look like they could be at home in a wide variety of battlefields. I'm also curious to see if a man portable mortar support will impact the sniper meta.
1 minute ago, KommanderKeldoth said:I'm stoked for Shoretroopers, they look cool and despite their name they look like they could be at home in a wide variety of battlefields. I'm also curious to see if a man portable mortar support will impact the sniper meta.
We can only hope lol
Just now, manoftomorrow010 said:We can only hope lol
I actually think snipers are fun when both players have them. It makes for some interesting shootouts and counter play. It sucks when only one player has them though, it feels kind of unfair on certain objectives like Breakthrough and Sabotage the Moisture Vaperators when you can just play defense and out range your opponent's guns.
17 minutes ago, KommanderKeldoth said:I actually think snipers are fun when both players have them. It makes for some interesting shootouts and counter play. It sucks when only one player has them though, it feels kind of unfair on certain objectives like Breakthrough and Sabotage the Moisture Vaperators when you can just play defense and out range your opponent's guns.
I'll save this largely for the Sniper team thread, but I somewhat agree, but mostly just personally, don't have fun playing snipers lol it will very much be interesting to see how mortars shape the game.