Please FFG, bring the 3 TIE Defenders list back! Ι t's so sad that I can’t field 3 Defenders in a 200 pts list! For me, the 3 Defenders list is the most iconic list of 1.0! I don’t want the extra shield and the boost action, please take them away and bring back the 3 Defenders to the table!

Even though I still think that 1.0 was a game with more fun than the 2.0, I got into 2.0 and I play 2.0, since all tournaments are in 2.0 format and I’m a great fan of tournament playing. I bought all conversion kits and every wave, since I like to play different lists and factions. However, from the first time I played Defenders in 1.0, I became a fan of them. It’s not only the sheer beauty of the model that attracted me to the Defenders. It’s also the playability of the list, I could play the Tie/X7 or the Tie/D and they were both so great, you could shoot twice with your beloved Defender model, those were the good times! I bought 3 Imperial Veterans expansions for this beautiful red Defender, in total I’ve got 6 Defenders (and 9 Interceptors that I never play due to my inability to fly such a lovely but fragile model, that’s another story)! In the current or future meta of 2.0 3 Defenders may not be good of course, but I don’t care, I just want to be able to field 3 Defenders in tournaments and do that fabulous white 4k with those awesome looking red models! So, this is my plea to FFG to consider bringing the 3 Defenders list back!

Some suggestions to FFG:

1) You could lower the price of the I1 to 66 points. Even though 3 naked I1s may seem like a bad idea, it’s of no concern to me, I will be losing with a smile!

2) You could release a Modification upgrade for Defenders e.g. for -4 or -5 points lose a shield and the boost action. For -10 pts it would be better so we can field 3 I4s, but I will be satisfied with 3 I1s in 200 pts as well .

Revive the 3 Defenders list! Make Empire great again! Make us Defenders fans happy!

Empire is doing well enough right now with a fairly diverse array of options. 3 defender lists really not needed, but if they were all the lowest generic it would be probably okay. Nothing more through.

I quite like the fact you can't get more than 2 Defenders in a list. It really hits the thematic point that they're supposed to be rare and super advanced fighters.

Man, I really don't wanna have to play against Defenders that don't just not take take damage but can also just joust me.

Aren't Defenders good right now, though? Rexler, Whisper, and a Palp Shuttle made the Adepticon top cut.

24 minutes ago, Metallian said:

Even though I still think that 1.0 was a game with more fun than the 2.0...

Right here is where I think you lost credibility...

In all seriousness, though, I really don't think Defenders need to change - and I have adored the Defender since my start in X-Wing. I think FFG have nailed the advanced, elite (and rare) nature of the ship with its current representation. I do miss the option of the old TIE/D double shot, but I think if that were reintroduced as a Configuration it would either have to cost a fortune or replace/remove the Full Throttle ability.

Here Here for the Tie/D double shot! My main team being vessery with Tie/D and ion, Ryad with the x7 and a Tie s/f to feed locks etc...

I really miss that sweet double tap and am a bit gutted that vessery is pretty terrible with his high cost and how hardly any imperial ships can feed him target locks.

If they’re going to allow the quad phantoms they should allow triple defenders. I would prefer neither, for the record.

One problem I see is that if they allow a third Defender, suddenly everyone will be complaining about how the conversion kit only came with two dials and how it's just a money-grab on FFG's part to sell more kits.

I also feel that de Tie defender was more fun un V1. The loss of the mod slot and the titles caused the ship to lose some flavor. I aslo think that adding a shield with 2.0 was a mistake and that it only inscreased the cost above the level required to play 3 defenders in a list. It was probably the point but i wish FFG would have taken another path for the Defender. As suggested above, a title could fix it but i doubt that FFG will go there.

Even being a Defender homer I think 3 Defenders would probably be a bit too good even at I1. That's 21 hitpoints behind 3 agility, with a decent dial, and an incredible action bar. They also have the ability to disengage when one gets too shot up. Heck, I1 kind of helps you with full throttle as you probably know if you are going to complete your 3-5 move. I still think Defenders are too expensive for what they are though. I think another price drop across all the pilots is still needed. Maybe 2 or 3 points so that you still can't run 3 Defenders, but 2 and something else gives you some more options. I would also rearrange the pricing of the named pilots. Brath at 80, Ryad, and Vessery both at 78. They both have good abilities, but I4 just isn't an initiative you want to be at.

Rexler is the only good named defender unless you're running Vader + Vess. All the generics are good.

Why high cost is good for the defender:

Easiest ship to point fortress with

Gives it an extra shield and boost whilst holding onto the slots X7 ditched in 1e

Thematic but not restrictive in list building

Prevents the unkillable cancer that would be 3 in the toned down meta of 2e

2 defenders + support or ace is underrated. 1 defender in a squad of 3 aces is also good. How about we learn the ship instead of forcing it to conform to a NPE W+M1? Defenders take some skill to fly now.

4 hours ago, Jike said:

I quite like the fact you can't get more than 2 Defenders in a list. It really hits the thematic point that they're supposed to be rare and super advanced fighters.

I know they are rare, I've seen the Disney Rebels episodes, where even one and only Defender strikes fear in the hearts of its enemies. I was used to being able to fly 3 though and it's a habit difficult to grow out off, when it's your favorite ship and you like flying spam lists.

4 hours ago, svelok said:

Man, I really don't wanna have to play against Defenders that don't just not take take damage but can also just joust me.

Aren't Defenders good right now, though? Rexler, Whisper, and a Palp Shuttle made the Adepticon top cut.

I see your point, but if they introduce a title with which Defenders lose a shield, then it's 3 I1 Defenders with 18 hitpoints total and 3 agility. I don't think it's very difficult for the current meta of 4 or 5 Rebels ships who shoot 3 red dice each and shoot first to bring them down. Also, only Rexler in a list made the top cut. So many tournaments and I don't think that a double Defender list has achieved anything notable (I may be wrong though).

1 hour ago, Jo Jo said:

Even being a Defender homer I think 3 Defenders would probably be a bit too good even at I1. That's 21 hitpoints behind 3 agility, with a decent dial, and an incredible action bar.

I will have to disagree here, as they will be I1 and they will move after everything else and get shot first. About the 21 hitpoints, that's why FFG could introduce a title so that Defenders be like the old ones, that is, without the extra shield and the boost action, since almost nobody plays Defenders in the competitive scene nowadays when 4 and 5 ships has become the norm and Defenders are so expensive.

4 hours ago, MalusCalibur said:

Right here is where I think you lost credibility...

Well, I admit that I liked 1.0 more. It's a matter of taste. Games were faster, you saw more two and three ship lists going well. I liked the fact that Decimators and big ships were shooting 360, I even liked the Harpoons on Gunships and of course the 3 Defenders. It was more fun for me, now it's a game that requires more thinking, you need to outfly your opponent, if he's flying a big ship, he may not even manage to shoot you in whole game. Now it's a more strategic game, 1.0 was more childish. A good pilot nowadays has a great advantage over a mediocre pilot, in my opinion. You will say of course that that's the way things should be and I won't disagree with you, a game that requires a lot of thought should reward the good pilot. It's just that I got into the game in 1.0 and I loved 1.0 for what it was!

6 minutes ago, Metallian said:

So many tournaments and I don't think that a double Defender list has achieved anything notable

... okay?

Defenders should be good (because every ship should be good), but why does a mono-list have to be the arbitrary measuring stick? X-Wings can be good without XXXX being good, or whatever.

I just want to start this by saying that I don't currently, nor have I ever run Defenders in 2nd ed. but I loved to fly them in 1st ed. I don't run Imperials at all because I am bent on sticking to just a few factions rather than dabbling in everything like I did in 1st.

So with that little disclaimer out of the way, I'm gonna agree with everyone saying that the inability to efficiently spam these guys is a massive flavor win. Even back in 1st ed, they were initially priced so that running 3 was extremely tight point wise. You could do a named pilot and two cheap generics with very little to no upgrades, but as the game progressed and power creep did it's thing, they then got a fix pack. The fix was to either massively improve their action or attack economy at no extra charge, and for one of those options came with a point decrease. This all made perfect sense in the enjoyable but overpowered, combo-fueled mayhem that was 1st eds later half. For 2nd ed though, the power of most things is greatly reigned in.

Tie Defenders received substantial buffs in the conversion to 2.0 on top of everything else around it changing. It's got 5 actions now instead of just 3, Tie/x-7's ability is built in without stripping away cannons or missiles, and it also boasts increased hp with the best shield to hull ratio in the game. Yes it lost it's mod, but it gained the sensor slot, a shield upgrade, and an engine upgrade. Yes, running a list of 3 is not possible anymore, but I don't think we want every ship to get spammed. Certainly not ones that have always been treated as rare, powerful, and very very limited in quantity. There should be ships that only ever get a single model into a list. If Tie/d's could be spammed, I think it would've turned off a lot of the people who were tired of the high powered game that was 1st ed.

At the end of the day, I think certain ships should be costed to prevent spam lists, not because there's anything wrong with spam lists, but because spamming these ships goes against the spirit of what they are meant to be. The Defender is a top-of-the-line fighter, meant for and exclusively piloted by the best the Empire has to offer. The pilots in these ships are typically squad leaders or aces, backed by pilots in different models of Tie fighters. Generic pilots should exist, but they should be few and far between IMO. I say let the elite pilots and ships be stated, costed, and able to act like they are the top dogs of their faction.

Are defenders even good? Seems like they pay too much for a single ship now.

(actually I'd probably be in if there was some way to remove their insane defensive token stacking)

5 hours ago, Metallian said:

I see your point, but if they introduce a title with which Defenders lose a shield, then it's 3 I1 Defenders with 18 hitpoints total and 3 agility. I don't think it's very difficult for the current meta of 4 or 5 Rebels ships who shoot 3 red dice each and shoot first to bring them down. Also, only Rexler in a list made the top cut. So many tournaments and I don't think that a double Defender list has achieved anything notable (I may be wrong though).

You downplay the armor they get with the free evade which can happen off a K turn.

That kind of defense was part of what kicked offed the arms race that spiraled 1.0 out of control.

Hard pass.

7 hours ago, Metallian said:

I w ill have to disagree here, as they will be I1 and they will move after everything else and get shot first. About the 21 hitpoints, that's why FFG could introduce a title so that Defenders be like the old ones, that is, without the extra shield and the boost action, since almost nobody plays Defenders in the competitive scene nowadays when 4 and 5 ships has become the norm and Defenders are so expensive.

They're gonna move first, not last. Which means that any decent Defender Pilot will be able to get the three free evades every round - even if you drop them down to 18 total HP, when they effectively regen a shield every round, at no penalty, they're stupid good ships. Not to mention the possibility to block, and the dual mods on a K-Turn. And the Boost, while good, doesn't make it bad enough to justify spam if they lose it.

Triple Defenders don't have a place in 2.0. Unless we see rapid power creep, they hopefully never will.

That said, I would love to see the TIE/d, as that was my bread and butter (and janky OP Hot Turkey Sandwich between those pieces of bread and butter) in 1.0. But, even then, it can see you either needing to spend the Evade to get the second attack, or needing to spend enough to make Double Defender lists not only viable, but your full 200 points.

But, yah, no, I have seen enough of the Triple Defenders. Asides from the flavour victory, the sheer power of the Defender right now is too much in spam.

I would recommend, if you miss triple Defenders, ask a friend to play some casual 1.0 games. Or, find the players in your area that didn't convert, and play with them.

13 hours ago, Jike said:

I quite like the fact you can't get more than 2 Defenders in a list. It really hits the thematic point that they're supposed to be rare and super advanced fighters.

Yet, quad sigmas is a thing....

No & No & No

Facing 3 TIE defenders would be worse than facing 5 ARC-170's

I mained defenders for a long time in 1.0. They have a special place in my heart but honestly I'm glad it's not an archetype anymore. "You can totally guess my move but it really doesn't matter because a 4k is still a 4K and I got tokens for days" isn't good game design.

For the "brawler" class of ship, the T70 with the Heroic and the Tech Slot kinda serves the old Defender's role but in a way that's better for the game, and of course xwings being a consistent meta stable makes more sense than a ship that barely exists.

7 hours ago, Scopes said:

Yet, quad sigmas is a thing....

True, but I don't think the way to fix that particular issue is to break something else.

3 Defenders was my goto squad towards the end of 1.0 but I must say I really like the new Defenders as well.

If you haven't already I really suggest trying out 2 Defender + Coordinating shuttle with boosting crew of choice (Palp, Ciena, Death Troopers, Slicer), not saying it's better than 3 defenders used to be but it's really fun to fly and works fine.

1 hour ago, mcgreag said:

3 Defenders was my goto squad towards the end of 1.0 but I must say I really like the new Defenders as well.

If you haven't already I really suggest trying out 2 Defender + Coordinating shuttle with boosting crew of choice (Palp, Ciena, Death Troopers, Slicer), not saying it's better than 3 defenders used to be but it's really fun to fly and works fine.

I did try that but found it difficult to keep the defenders in range 2 of the shuttle. The shuttle is tough to move around considering it has no white turns.

On 4/8/2019 at 6:22 AM, Metallian said:

Please FFG, bring the 3 TIE Defenders list back! Ι t's so sad that I can’t field 3 Defenders in a 200 pts list! For me, the 3 Defenders list is the most iconic list of 1.0! I don’t want the extra shield and the boost action, please take them away and bring back the 3 Defenders to the table!

Revive the 3 Defenders list! Make Empire great again! Make us Defenders fans happy!

So make 2.0 1.0 again because flying ships that have to work to turn around and can't token stack at the same time is hard? Hmmmmm

Nooooooooooope