Wow.

I just playtested a simple duel between a starting character (wardancer, Str 3, Ag 4, WS and Coordination trained) and a Marauder, and then an Orc.

The enemies had their own complete A/C/E pools.

First the Marauder. Marauder wins initiative. Two rounds later, after the Wardancer effectively used Double Strike twice, the Marauder is down and the Wardancer took 5 wounds.

Rally step.

Another Marauder charges in. The Wardancer wins the initiative, wounds the Marauder but then is cut down.

Wardancer has stayed alive for a total of 3 rounds and a rally step...

Second, the Orc. 3 rounds of action, a few misses, the Wardancer finally goes down at -8 Wounds Threshold while the Orc has withstood 5 wounds...

Wow.

The simple Orc exists no longer. These Greenskins are bad !

Now I realise that by giving the enemies whole A/C/E pools, it makes them very effective for two rounds or so. But still, by the RAW, these critters deserved their own pool...

Which has me thinking, what if I used the A/C/E pool as a sort of rank and file to elite gauge of the strength of enemies. It could be seen as follows:

1- ONE A/C/E pool per enemy = Elite troop, alpha male, top dog of its class. Only Nemesis can be stronger than that.

2- ONE A/C/E per TWO enemies = Veteran troop, hardened poilu, these enemies have seen it all.

3- ONE A/C/E pool per group of enemies over TWO but under FIVE (or insert party number here) = Rank and file, typical individual of this type.

4- ONE A/C/E pool per group of enemies counting SIX or MORE individuals = Poor quality troops, probably henchmen, cannon fodder.

5 - NO A/C/E pool = Slaves, weakened or sick individuals.

6- ONE A/C/E pool per group of any number of individuals, but inverse A and C values = Women and children, old people and other non-combatants.

I'm still pondering on the lethality of combat against Marauders and Orcs... And I use a Difficulty level in combat that is higher than the RAW...

Wow.

Any TPKs out there ? How do your PCs fare ? How bloody is the game for you ?

Different creatures get different A/C/E's. You did things right. But that's no different the previous editions of WFRP Orcs were always capable of killing starting level PC's. The PC's had the advantage but unlike 1st level PC's vs Orc's in D&D Orc's have never been folder.

But the system has some strange issues with A/C/E.

Five different creatures are much stronger than 5 creatures of the same type, because of the way A/C/E works.

I give each monster or henchman group their own A/C/E pool, but tend not to try and burn it all on the first couple of actions, to try and take out the PCs, but spend it more slowly and gradually to "improve" the story rather than TPK.

Gallows said:

There's nothing preventing you from giving them 5 seperate a/c/e's it just depends on how important those 5 creatures are. 5 random orcs 1 pool of a/c/e 5 orc heroes (even if just using the stock orc stat block) worthy of separate a/c/e's.

Kryyst said:

Yeah I know. The rules just state very clearly how it works. I have my own rules for A/C/E. I have ONE big A/C/E pool and rules for recharging dice back into the pool. I found that to balance th monsters more to my liking. I also let monsters use expertise dice to add a purple dice to players pools as defence.

I know a lot of GMs have posted on this forum and say they use up as much A/C/E as possible in an "alpha strike" at the start of the battle.

I just don't picture myself ever doing that. At least not without some special circumstances - maybe in an ambush, or something?

Burning through the whole pool in a round or two kinda feels like it's running counter to the point and purpose of the A/C/E pools, IMHO. I suspect the point of the pools is twofold:

1) Reduce GM prep time, since you don't have to stat out specific skils and talents for each individual monster.

2) Give the GM a flexible tool to customize the encounter on the fly.

With those goals in mind, I tend to spend the points piece meal, responding to circumstances in the game, rather than front-loaded. I may spend a bunch at once sometimes, but only if it seems especially warranted by the circumstances. I use the A/C/E to control pacing, simulate morale effects, provide color and character to the encounter, etc.

Interesting responses.

I have devised a nifty NPC tracking document that allows me to assign an A/C/E pool to every creature if I want to, and to keep track of it very easily.

But having playtested a bit, I find that a creature that has a full A/C/E pool all to itself is pretty powerful ! That's why I'm thinking of using % of A/C/E pool per creature as a benchmark for their combat worthiness. A bit like the Creature advance schemes of V2, the A/C/E directly reflects the creature's level of advancement in experience and guile.

I like the A/C/E because it is simple to use, and does make stating NPCs a cinch. (I have a "special" column for NPCs where I can also note special rules and add specific skills to them if I need to, but that would be exceptional)

So at the moment I'm divided between using a big pool that unites all A/C/E pools into one, but keeping in mind that any one creature cannot use more Agression/Cunning than the maximum value of their statline. This would make counter managing behind the GM screen easier.

Or simply make the A/C/E management paperized to my easy to use A/C/E checkbox column on my document. That gives me the possibility to track multiple pools very easily, without having a mess of counters behind my screen. For the moment I'm leaning towards this last option.

I like the A/C/E pools because they reflect fatigue and wear that quickly builds up in battle. PCs will be confronted by Fatigue, Stress and Wound loss while NPCs have to contend with ACE depletion and Wound loss. The result being that both sides will be very effective and deadly in the first few rounds and then less so, which will make retreat and rally a common strategy for both sides.

I love that. I always hated that combatants in RPGs fight like robots for rounds on end without ever taking a breath or a moment to regroup. Didn't feel real. Now V3 has this great mechanic to bring a realistic ebb and flow of energy in combat.

Just imagine...

PCs are ambushed by 6 goblins that pepper them with arrows. The PCs charge in the forest, pushing through the undergrowth, taking fatigue. They engage the Goblins, fight for a round or two, use Active Defense, Fortune points etc... And then, as the PCs start to feel Fatigue and Stress, a fresh wave of Orcs leap from their hiding place and charge in ! No rally. Fresh forces against fatigued ones. Sounds like a rout, doesn't it ? Real military tactics like this will have a real effect now. Timing will be everything in combat since a quick success in the first rounds can give you the chance to rally before more enemies join the fray... PCs with a mind for tactics will be able to win the day by using their creativity and a disciplined execution.

After making my own house ruling of A/C/E I agree that it's brilliant, because it's easy to use without the need for a lot of NPC stats.

I just let them use expertise dice as well to add challenge dice to players pools (instead of using advanced defence cards).

But A/C/E is nice, because it gives the GM fredom to alter the flow of battle with fair rules.