17 hours ago, Senjius said:

Leia has sharpshooter 2 so she ignores cover. How is it relevant then for the sniper team to be in cover?

Leia has a 76.56% of scoring 2 hits out of 2 red dice. 2 of the 3 attacks you get both hits easy and for the third one you can always use your aim token.

So, almost 95% of the time, you get 2 hits in the 3 attacks from orbital attack.

Then enemy snipers only saves with white dice with surge. So every time Leia hits with both red dice, the sniper team has a 44.44% of dying both, a 44.44 of losing one soldier, and a 11.11% of surviving both. So if Leia hits all your sniper teams you can loose a lot of activations (and if only one survives he is easy prey for other snipers, single DLTs or something with range 4).

You are correct about cover but I did include sharpshooter in the calculation. Originally I was going to do veers as well where it does matter but didn't get around to it. My calculations were assuming no aim token then each attack only has a 34% chance at killing both snipers. With an aim token you are looking at 43%. If you assume 2/3 attacks don't need the aim, which is a safe assumption, so 6 hits your number are correct.

I don't know if you were disagreeing with my opinion on snipers or just adding some more information about my numbers but either way you then go and make my point for me "and if only one survives he is easy prey for other snipers". Exactly. Even with leia you still need snipers for anti-sniper forcing all playing to bring snipers and kill list diversity.

Should strike teams have followed the detachment rules? So you have to buy the squad first then you get the option to buy the strike team.

10 hours ago, thepopemobile100 said:

Even with the very minor advantage to hit with an aim, the difference is so minor that it's not going to be noticeable in game. The imp snipers are also more likely to completely miss the shot against a target with no cover with or without the aim as well, so I really wouldn't call them better.

Also rebel sniper teams have a greater chance to add another rifle into the attack pool if shooting inside range 3. Scout troopers are only range 1-2 for their primary.

The only thing that bothers me a little with the Sniper Teams is the leader rule and the 50% unit under cover.

Because of those rules, it usually takes 2 shots to get rid of one sniper team, and the first shot is pretty much always under heavy cover even if the unit is clear in the open.

It makes the Sniper Teams a gimmicky unit that ‘exploit’ the rules of the game.

Make it so that the second figure doesn’t get the sniper when the leader dies and that a unit must be in LoS to be considered for covered and suddenly I’m pretty sure that we’ll see a lot less sniper teams.

3 hours ago, Red Castle said:

The only thing that bothers me a little with the Sniper Teams is the leader rule and the 50% unit under cover.

Because of those rules, it usually takes 2 shots to get rid of one sniper team, and the first shot is pretty much always under heavy cover even if the unit is clear in the open.

It makes the Sniper Teams a gimmicky unit that ‘exploit’ the rules of the game.

Make it so that the second figure doesn’t get the sniper when the leader dies and that a unit must be in LoS to be considered for covered and suddenly I’m pretty sure that we’ll see a lot less sniper teams.

I think this would take snipers to the other end of the spectrum and make them near worthless, which is also bad.

5 hours ago, Red Castle said:

The only thing that bothers me a little with the Sniper Teams is the leader rule and the 50% unit under cover.

Because of those rules, it usually takes 2 shots to get rid of one sniper team, and the first shot is pretty much always under heavy cover even if the unit is clear in the open.

It makes the Sniper Teams a gimmicky unit that ‘exploit’ the rules of the game.

Make it so that the second figure doesn’t get the sniper when the leader dies and that a unit must be in LoS to be considered for covered and suddenly I’m pretty sure that we’ll see a lot less sniper teams.

I've thought about this rule change lately too. It's one of the unintuitive things about the way cover works right now. I think it wouldn't be a bad change to make.

"A miniature in a unit must be in the attacker's line of sight to count as obscured when determining unit cover."

Only being able to push 1 wound through max is already a big boon.

I disagree on the other part though. The sniper rifle is the unit leader and it would be too punitive to have 1 wound neuter the unit immediately. Leia's coordinated bombardment would instantly neutralize three teams most of the time if it worked like that.

Another RRG change that would help alleviate activation spam in general would be to give the player with fewer remaining activations the ability to pass without activating a unit. This would also make the endgame more interesting in some games where one player loses a couple of units right off the bat.

Counters to snipers not mentioned: limited visibility condition card and rapid reinforcements condition card.

1 minute ago, Thalandar said:

Counters to snipers not mentioned: limited visibility condition card and rapid reinforcements condition card.

Rapid reinforcements can be a boon to snipers too. I've used it to deep strike my snipers into nice firing lanes while denying my opponent the ability to counter deploy. If you have Improvised Orders you can hold off on dropping them in until late in the round

1 minute ago, KommanderKeldoth said:

Rapid reinforcements can be a boon to snipers too. I've used it to deep strike my snipers into nice firing lanes while denying my opponent the ability to counter deploy. If you have Improvised Orders you can hold off on dropping them in until late in the round

Snipers are too squishy for deep strike. My buddy did that and didnt even get a shot off with one of them before they were killed

3 minutes ago, Thalandar said:

Snipers are too squishy for deep strike. My buddy did that and didnt even get a shot off with one of them before they were killed

It can be risky, but if done well (using improvised orders to hold them back until after most of your opponents units have gone already, and dropping them at a safe distance) you can totally deny your opponent LoS blocking deployment.

3 hours ago, KommanderKeldoth said:

Another RRG change that would help alleviate activation spam in general would be to give the player with fewer remaining activations the ability to pass without activating    a unit. This would also make the endgame more    interesting in some games where one player loses a couple of units right off the bat.  

There was a thread on this idea a while back. I think it would be really really good for the game. Brings sniper spam down a notch and helps heavy units that quite frankly need some help.

17 hours ago, Ophion said:

Should strike teams have followed the detachment rules? So you have to buy the squad first then you get the option to buy the strike team.

No, that would allow effectively double the special forces slots.

On 4/9/2019 at 7:13 AM, Qark said:

You are correct about cover but I did include sharpshooter in the calculation. Originally I was going to do veers as well where it does matter but didn't get around to it. My calculations were assuming no aim token then each attack only has a 34% chance at killing both snipers. With an aim token you are looking at 43%. If you assume 2/3 attacks don't need the aim, which is a safe assumption, so 6 hits your number are correct.

I don't know if you were disagreeing with my opinion on snipers or just adding some more information about my numbers but either way you then go and make my point for me "and if only one survives he is easy prey for other snipers". Exactly. Even with leia you still need snipers for anti-sniper forcing all playing to bring snipers and kill list diversity.

Not disagreeing completely, just adding info. Anyway, as I have pointed out, if all 3 teams are at least "wounded" it is really easy to put the last guy down even in heavy cover. The advantage provided by sniper is not their kill count but the extra activations. You can deal with that in turns 1-2 with a bit of ranged firepower (and if you are running Han + 6x fleet troopers then assume you are going to take some damage from them).

On 4/9/2019 at 10:13 PM, Red Castle said:

The only thing that bothers me a little with the Sniper Teams is the leader rule and the 50% unit under cover.

Because of those rules, it usually takes 2 shots to get rid of one sniper team, and the first shot is pretty much always under heavy cover even if the unit is clear in the open.

It makes the Sniper Teams a gimmicky unit that ‘exploit’ the rules of the game. 

Would make them unplayable, one shot to completly nullify a unit would be a waste of 44 points.

As a long time member of ffg forums I just want to tip my hat to those of you offering solutions with things we already have. That is how you beat the meta, not pining for rule changes.

Innovate don't complain.