6 hours ago, Kdubb said:

Now I understand there was a need to give SOME type of kit, but making it a mishmash that would cover only some imaginary, perfectly in between the two extremes collection, it served no one perfectly.

So, what should the kit have looked like, then?

I had 2 close friends that never converted. Lgs had 4-6 at the end of 1.0 and average 6-8 since 2.0.

I'm not certain how many people in my local area stopped due to the 2.0 conversion. I know that it brought me back in, and from speaking to others in the local community it breathed new life into the game, especially for our regular tournaments where we can usually get 12+ attendees.

As for the conversion kits; they certainly weren't perfect, especially with the mismatches of base-plates and cards, but I don't think that the logistics of having ship-specific conversion kits would have been viable (how many Sheathipede conversion kits does a store order? I've got four Interceptors to upgrade, why am I being given four Soontir Fel etc).

No one in my group has left. Those friends who were into it during 1.0 are all still into it, and even more so with 2.0. If anything, I was the closest to losing interest at the end of 1.0, but 2.0 has re-energized me. That said, I've decided not to buy into the two new factions due to financial reasons, to the fact that I already have a vast collection of ships (some of which have seen minimal action), and because I play at most once per week. I even intend to be selective about what I purchase for the other 5 factions. The recent price increase has acted as a deterrent to buying more ships... and I'm fine with that.

All in all, I'm focused on getting my money's worth out of my 1.0 collection and 2.0 conversion kits (1 of each was, for the most part, sufficient).

I am looking forward to the revised epic rules and hopefully scenarios and campaigns, too.

And for the record, I've only ever played at home on a casual basis. So I can't comment on the current health of the local community (Calgary, Alberta, Canada), which I believe was fairly strong throughout 1.0.

None that I know of.

I really can't understand how anyone could prefer 1.0 to 2.0, or why it would make people leave. It's crazy, it's a much better game now.

I don't think there was any perfect way to do the conversion kit thing. No way they could have produced hundreds of individual conversions for ships. In games like Warhammer 40,000 the new edition of the game includes basic rules for your army, then you have to wait months for the faction-specific books to come out. And that happens every couple of years.

I recall playing Ryad a lot in the middle of the 1.0 era after she came out, even with another defender and an LN, but usually with two TIE Interceptors. It was silly good in pint games. Heck, I can recall playing against more novice pilots and just winging it, and never taking damage, even after putting her in a predicatively aggressive (but perceptively not a good defensive future) position and coming out not only unscathed, but putting some hurt in. Were they the bomb? No. There were too many meta bending broken things to keep them off the top tables, but in the general field, they were smoking good. Do we want three in a list in 1.0. Sure, if you like the chassis and pilots. But no if you want the game to be as balanced and fluid as possible. I wouldn't mind seeing Vessery get a drop in July (because remember FFG, he doesn't have his TL little buddy anymore) ... and drop my girl of course; but let's keep Rex the cheaper chassis where they are so we don't get in that trap, IMO.

3 hours ago, ayedubbleyoo said:

I really can't understand how anyone could prefer 1.0 to 2.0,

Well, if you don't insist on playing triple-jumps, TLT spam, and harpoon missiles, the 1.0 game isn't that messed up.

Also, I still have access to Backstabber, Tycho, and a much wider variety of missiles and torpedoes.

Investing in the ConKits was going to be expensive for me, and. . .

Quote

why it would make people leave.

. . .Epic wasn't supported.

Quote

It's crazy, it's a much better game now.

Hmm.

I'd say the mechanics are much more solid now. OTOH, that doesn't necessarily make it a better game for all players.

The game still lacks Epic, as well as the depth and breadth of variety that was in 1.0. Squints only have 4 pilots, where they used to have more than twice that many. There are a lot less choices for ships (no TIE Defender -D, no varieties for the Scyk, etc.).

And as an Imperial player, there hasn't been a single new ship added to the game since the TIE Reaper.

Both of these are downsides to my play experience.

So, if my only incentive to convert to 2.0 is cleaner mechanics and better balance for tournaments, I can get by with 1.0 for a lot less $$$.

2 minutes ago, Darth Meanie said:

The game still lacks Epic

I realize that fans of epic are disappointed that it hasn't yet been converted, but I've always thought of it as a supplement to the game. (And it probably should never have had new, especially fix cards for X-wing).

5 minutes ago, AlexW said:

I realize that fans of epic are disappointed that it hasn't yet been converted, but I've always thought of it as a supplement to the game. (And it probably should never have had new, especially fix cards for X-wing).

And I would have quit a long time ago if Epic didn't exist.* 3x3 micro-battles got boring for me, fast.

I also think there are a lot more people out there who play Epic than people on these boards give credit for, and a lot more would have tried it if FFG had supported it better.

I am hoping that FFG's emphasis on casual play, as well as using Epic as the mission/campaign/narrative milieu, gives players a new option that is neither Standard X-Wing nor Armada, but maybe something that feels a little like both.

*I mean, I guess I did quit because of no Epic, since I never converted to 2.0 and I'm just starting to buy back in.

15 minutes ago, Darth Meanie said:

Well, if you don't insist on playing triple-jumps, TLT spam, and harpoon missiles, the 1.0 game isn't that messed up.

You've just described my local meta a year ago. Playing 1.0 was a miserable experience for me, since I didn't see the growth of these broken elements, I waded right into them, while wanting to fly Darth Vader and some Interceptors because they looked cool.

2.0 has been a breath of fresh air, and a game I'm happy to share with new players.

Also, for me the conversion kits were aspirational, since I didn't have that many copies of any ship, so they actually inspired me to seek out more used ships (happily right when more experienced players were scaling their collections back).

I realize my experience isn't typical, but it is a perspective, and I think one that some novice players share.

6 minutes ago, Darth Meanie said:

And I would have quit a long time ago if Epic didn't exist.* 3x3 micro-battles got boring for me, fast.

I also think there are a lot more people out there who play Epic than people on these boards give credit for, and a lot more would have tried it if FFG had supported it better.

I am hoping that FFG's emphasis on casual play, as well as using Epic as the mission/campaign/narrative milieu, gives players a new option that is neither Standard X-Wing nor Armada, but maybe something that feels a little like both.

*I mean, I guess I did quit because of no Epic, since I never converted to 2.0 and I'm just starting to buy back in.

Sure, I'm just saying that it's not surprising they didn't update it right away along with the rest of 2nd edition.

I've been eagerly awaiting the new, improved Epic (tm) for a while too.

In my opinion, the best formats are Epic/Cinematic, then Heroes of the Aturi Cluster, then multiplayer furball, and finally 200pt deathmatches.

I really like both Extended and Hyperspace, I go to as many tournaments as my family permits, and I enjoy them immensely. And the cooperative formats are even better!

1 hour ago, AlexW said:

Sure, I'm just saying that it's not surprising they didn't update it right away along with the rest of 2nd edition.

Eh, I think that could mean several things:

A. FFG still thinks of Epic as "supplemental X-Wing." (bad)

B. FFG wanted to take more time to get Epic right. (good)

C. FFG wanted to take more time to expand Epic and make it even better with more options. (great)

D. Epic is actually right on time, and Standard was a crappy rush job 1 year early to keep the entire game from dying. (bummer)

The $ / new content in the conversion to 2.0 is probably among the best for any release in the game's history.

Veteran 1.0 players definitely spent far more money for fewer new cards and pilots than just converting to 2.0 put on offer.

15 hours ago, AceDogbert said:

I'm not certain how many people in my local area stopped due to the 2.0 conversion. I know that it brought me back in, and from speaking to others in the local community it breathed new life into the game, especially for our regular tournaments where we can usually get 12+ attendees.

As for the conversion kits; they certainly weren't perfect, especially with the mismatches of base-plates and cards, but I don't think that the logistics of having ship-specific conversion kits would have been viable (how many Sheathipede conversion kits does a store order? I've got four Interceptors to upgrade, why am I being given four Soontir Fel etc).

FFG could have sold ship-specific kits directly to players via on-line sales. Stores wouldn't need to order any ship-specific kits.

22 hours ago, AllWingsStandyingBy said:

So, what should the kit have looked like, then?

I didn’t claim to have that answer. I simply stated that, while something had to be provided, what WAS provided was imperfect to nearly every buyer and had components that were inevitably not going to be utilized.

Ideally the packs would have at least provided enough cards and cardboard that players could have easily traded or sold the components they did not need as complete, individual portions.

5 hours ago, Firebird TMK said:

FFG could have sold ship-specific kits directly to players via on-line sales. Stores wouldn't need to order any ship-specific kits.

Having online sales be the only way to convert doesn't sound too appealing to me. Not only are you adding a shipping cost on top of the cost of breaking out the components, but you're also adding an extra layer of complexity to the process. Not to mention the fact that you then also have fewer products sitting on shelves appealing to potential players. When a new player sees "Conversion Kit", this naturally raises the question, "conversion to/from what?" They can then do some research or ask other players and find out that there are a lot more ship options they can access if they so choose.

If the conversion is all online, then someone who hasn't been following FFG news is completely oblivious to the fact that conversion is even a possibility.

5 minutes ago, JJ48 said:

Having online sales be the only way to convert doesn't sound too appealing to me. Not only are you adding a shipping cost on top of the cost of breaking out the components, but you're also adding an extra layer of complexity to the process. Not to mention the fact that you then also have fewer products sitting on shelves appealing to potential players. When a new player sees "Conversion Kit", this naturally raises the question, "conversion to/from what?" They can then do some research or ask other players and find out that there are a lot more ship options they can access if they so choose.

If the conversion is all online, then someone who hasn't been following FFG news is completely oblivious to the fact that conversion is even a possibility.

Then do both. As long as I can get the kits I want without wasting $$$ on things I don't need, I don't care how they do it.

1 minute ago, Firebird TMK said:

Then do both. As long as I can get the kits I want without wasting $$$ on things I don't need, I don't care how they do it.

Well, from FFG's perspective, I'm guessing producing a full kit and broken-out components is probably the worst of both worlds, so I can certainly understand why they didn't go that route. But if all you're looking for is a cheap option, then I honestly don't know what to tell you. The way they did it seems like about the cheapest option they could have provided, as long as you're converting more than a couple ships. Just speaking personally, I doubt any of the other options would have let me convert for only $50 a faction.

8 hours ago, Firebird TMK said:

FFG could have sold ship-specific kits directly to players via on-line sales. Stores wouldn't need to order any ship-specific kits.

Selling ship-specific kits as online only products would have shafted the bricks-and-mortar stores which have provided FFG the springboard they needed to make X-Wing a success while also requiring them to invest in the infrastructure to do online sales around the world. To the best of my knowledge, the store on this very website only deals in American dollars, and ships from American warehouses. Needless to say, this would not be terribly helpful for me, being sat in the UK. It would also cause another layer of confusion for those wanting the products in other languages (with the added delight of customers potentially ordering the wrong language version of the product, or a mistake in shipping sending the wrong one...)

Cutting out the physical retailers would have created an awful lot of work for FFG for minimal benefit. Also, I'd imagine that the individual ship kits would have come in at the $5 dollar mark, containing enough stuff for a single vessel of that type (more for the larger base ships).

Since this topic is already derailed, I'll help:

FFG made conversion kits in pretty much the best way possible (size, price, quantity of contents) APART from 2 mistakes:-

1) communication, so people knew in advance exactly which components were present rather than having to go solely from the number of dials included.

If people had known this, there would have been far less whinging.

2) the proportions of the components being messed up.

No-one who's looked into the costs and hassle should be advocating single packs for single ships being produced (whether online or not), instead everyone with excess bits or lacking bits should have been able to trade these.

Many friends have left the game, forums and whatsapp groups.

But the worst thing is that there are stores that have decided not to bring ships unless it is by order. They have not sold the 1.0 and barely sell 2.0.

In addition none of them intends to return to the game, have sold their ships, and have seen how new ships have increased their price by 30%.

My area is hard to tell. I play at the best local game store and really grew the local scene. It is a bit out of town for most people, but I live on this side of town and its OK. I saw a lot of people who joined the game get turned off by the tournament players crushing the casual guys. About 1/3 of people who got into the game that I saw quit due to this reason.

Next, the traffic situation got really bad for this side of town. Major construction and all that. A new game store opened up that is closer for most people. Its not as good ad my store, but a lot of people left for it. Mostly the tournament types.

We have about 4-6 regulars every week who still make it, depending on life. A couple who show up once in a while. There is a guy who just showed up last week as new to the area and is more laid back in gaming, so that's good. There is even another guy who drifted to other games that is thinking of getting back into the game.

If Epic becomes the home for campaigns and story driven stuff, I expect to drag one or two more guys out of retirement.

So, traffic is what killed my local store. Not sure on how it is for other stores in the area.

Having played Games Workshop games for 13 years, I had no big problem with the conversion kits. I have traded a few unneeded for a few needed and mostly have all I need.

6 hours ago, nogarder said:

Many friends have left the game, forums and whatsapp groups.

But the worst thing is that there are stores that have decided not to bring ships unless it is by order. They have not sold the 1.0 and barely sell 2.0.

In addition none of them intends to return to the game, have sold their ships, and have seen how new ships have increased their price by 30%.

i have heard similar stories like this as well tho not in my playgroup. its entirely possible there are many more stories like this but none to tell them because those players are no longer on these forums. so we may not be getting the full story of player exodus.

All of them? All of you?

.....hoping, and wanting tea again.